Guys a lot has been written today and I am somewhat confused in the outcome from some more tests tonight.

I installed a program called bbMPEG which comes in two stand alone versions one for DV and one for analogue source material. It can also be loaded as a plugin for Premiere and thats the version I used tonight - its free and in beta mode.

The SVCD standard default settings for PAL were given as 480 x 576 frame, 2600kb/s MP@ML Mpeg2, 12I & 3P's and 224 Layer 2 Stereo. Sorry I got to talk in PAL because I do not have any NTSC to encode yet.

It produces a good set of notes as it processes things and I was drawn to a note that effectively said, if the m2v video file and the mp2 audio file can not be multiplexed they will not be deleted.

I waited and 38 minutes later it had rendered my 720 x 576 DV AVI to a SVCD file and the final note was "Mux rate to low for the data rate, this file maynot be played by some equipment". It played OK with the Pioneer 104/Hollywood Plus decoder combination. Then I noticed that there was a unticked box that said "Auto" and when I ticked it the data rate went from 2600 to 2376 and the file was completed also 38 minutes later (for my standard 30 second test file) and there was no note as multiplexing was actually completed this time. Maybe Doug that explains why you have not been able to play your 2600 file in the 525, the file was not correctly multiplexed.

Now I gleened today that my test (2) in the posting "How good is SVCD...." was wrong from the point of view that frame sizes for the SVCD simulation were wrong. Daniel pointed that out (surprised you guys never said anything, this is all a learning curve for me). So I now have 4 good test files, the 720 x 576 VBR DVD compliant file which is top of the list but takes 2.67 hours per minute to make. A SVCD file that takes 1 hour and 26 minutes to make/minute of video. You guys are not saying how long! A Mpeg-1 file at 3000kb/s (and one at 4000kb/s) and a normal VCD all from a source based on a full frame DV AVI using NLE techniques and the Mpeg-1 3000 is still the best file if the DVD compliant file is neglected. That file has a data rate above what you guys are using in the high data rate VCD and I suggest the image quality difference will even be less noticable on my system.

Search me there has got to be a difference in mpeg stream generated files that appear to get a bigger boost from an increased data rate than the DV avi based system. Thats an interesting conclusion and one ponders where all this is leading, for me not to SVCD! I will be interested in Long's mpeg system results. I also wonder if there is a difference in NTSC & PAL, Walter what do you think being PAL (I think)?

Cheers

-- Ross McL (rmclennan@esc.net.au), February 28, 2000

Answers

Ross,

At this time I can't get I-Author to do anything for me. It kept on error out on me no matter what i did. One thing I did do is to make a VBR mpeg1 352x240 with max bitrate set at 2000kbs using MpegVCR 3.0 from wombly multimedia. This software has to be the slowest of the slow encoder out there. The end result of this session is that both mplayer and my Pioneers will play it with good resolution (note i did not say high resolution, but acceptable VHS quality) but it freezes and create random pixelation in the frame during play ( my guess is that this is happening due to bitrate changes during clip play ). What I did find from all of this SVCD is that the Pioneer will play 720x480 frame size clip without any problem. Resolution is excellent. The ATI AIW 128 will capture either Mpeg1 or Mpeg2 at this frame size without any problem ( my appology to May from the other posting about this card. It was my own mistake in the system config that causes the frame drop and not the hardware ). I captured a five minutes clip using Japanese NTSC option for source (more vertical resolution then USA standard) & interlace video with NTSC D1 720x480 frame size @ 1983200bit/s with the ATI and burn it straight to CD with Nero and play it back on the Pioneer. The file size is about 15.8Mb/min but the resolution is equivalent to my input. I capture my clip through S-video output from my S-VHS VCR, JVC.

-- lnguyen (wingstarzz@hotmail.com), February 28, 2000.

hey Ross, In genral i am not going to bother with super vcd, bevcasue it will still be the same kind of result i get from a high rate vcd. As my final product from the panasonic is as is. Also in genral the pioneer would not read a file higer the 2500 bits the sound skipped bad (but the picture seemed fine). Also the "hacked" i-author screwed up my system so i got rid of it. But yes that is why i capture at 3000 becasue it looks very close to my original then only going down to 2500 is not much difference

-- Doug (mazinz@aol.com), February 28, 2000.

Thanks guys for the comments, I will digest the implications a bit later but I would like to pass on something about encoders, I have just got in.

I mentioned the bbMPEG encoder and that is extremely good and at least after some initial tests as good as the Panasonic with one enormous possibility and that is the option that it will take a number of files and batch them INTO ONE OUPUT FILE so I tell you that is something I asked LSX to do 9 or 10 months ago. It gets around the problem we NLE based people have of 2 or 4G limits because it allows one to generate a number of high data rate DV files at 3.6M/s and batch them into one output file for burning.

It needs to be looked at a bit more but........ possibilities because it also will handle mpeg files provided it seems they are the correct frame size.

Interesting developements - I do not have the url at home but if anyone wants it to try free with a full capability for mpeg-1, mpeg2, svcd and DVD compliant files its worth a try.

I notice the default setting for VCD in bbMPEG is 9I 3P frames whereas Panasonic seems to preset 15I & 3P any comments about that.

-- Ross McL (rmclennan@esc.net.au), February 29, 2000.

Sorry I hit the submit button twice so I will stick with this one.

Long in your other post you mention the conversion NTSC to PAL. I am quite amazed at what comes out of the Pioneer 104/Hollywood Plus combination. Having a Professional level multi system TV monitor with 450 lines definition at the centre (its 5 years old) means I have been able to look at PAL converted to NTSC on an NTSC screen and on a PAL screen and actually vica versa with stills and with some NTSC VCD's I have also had in the mail. Its all very viewable with not a lot of difference at all, certainly nothing that would turn you off viewing the product in other than its native tv system.

That is also supported by a friend playing one of my VCD's in Mexico in NTSC with an on the fly conversion to NTSC using the Pioneer 525 set top.

-- Ross McL (rmclennan@esc.net.au), February 29, 2000.

The bbMPEG encoder URL is:

http://members.home.net/beyeler/bbmpeg.html

-- Ross McL (rmclennan@esc.net.au), February 29, 2000.

I have a matrox g400 marvel to capture svideo from my dv panasonic camcorder, mjpeg res at 352x288. edit in premier 5.1 and then encode as svcd pal 480x576 mvbr template. perfect! popped it into nero 5.0.1.3 svcd wizard and hey pesto one nice 36 min dv svid qual cd that plays back brilliant on my mico a980 dvd player....

took the same mpeg created with tmpeg and demuxed in tmpeg using tools menu and then encoded vid & audio in i author everything went fine , accepted menus created from photoshop and mpv and mps audio files. Image was created succesfully.....

problem i cant get the cif image into my ezcd... the open section of ezcd 4 is ghosted to i cant load up the cif file..which version do i need...

happy burning guys...... mail me please, mjeyre@visualfx.fsnet.co.uk

-- mike eyre (mjeyre@visualfx.fsnet.co.uk), April 05, 2001.