If children are said to be more idealistic and dreamers, than what of adults? if the saying by winston churchill "a man of twenty who is a conservative has no heart, while a man of 40 who is a liberal has no brain" is valid, just what does it mean to grow up and have experience ? does it means losing the idealism or curiosity to challenge the world?

-- diego (drafael@hotmail.com), February 27, 2000

Answers

i think that, the older you get, the more you learn about the way the world really works. that doesn't mean you can't or won't dream anymore, but it means that some less realistic notions might be harder to maintain. i've noticed myself getting more cynical, because the effect of being disappointed by people seems to be cumulative. but i'm not a total cynic, and i do give people the benefit of the doubt as much as possible. i'd like to find a way to remember the nice things people do and say as much as the nasty things - and the fact that i believe that such a way can be found shows that i haven't entirely lost my idealistic nature. :)

-- ann monroe (monroe@chorus.net), February 27, 2000.

Not at all. Rather, not necessarily. In fact, "growing up" (with its increased experiences and awareness of the world we exist in) ideally presents ongoing reasons to foster your idealism and curiosity.

Now, as one accumulates experiences and "life lessons", it can indeed be hard as hell to remain open to dreams and desires, to that sense of wonder and possibility that children should be allowed to create for themselves. The world doesn't encourage such things, by and large. On the other hand, growing up has the potential (and it may be that we choose or not to take it) to vastly increase our intellectual and emotional, even spiritual, resources for perceiving and experiencing the world, the people we interact with, and so on. And with that comes increased opportunity for idealism and curiosity tempered by experience and focus.

As a person grows up, he or she changes (otherwise there's a serious flaw at work). It's *how* a person changes, *in what way* he or she grows, how he *acts* from the inside and *reacts* to external stimuli ... all that is much more within the control of the individual than we are generally conditioned to believe, and we accumulate resources for doing so with each experience. And our varying levels of idealism, cynicism, hard-ass stubbornness, openness to change ... it all shifts along a continuum as we mature, and that's healthy as long we don't let the continuum freeze solid with no more change possible. (Potential Republican joke here, but I'll refrain... :{]) As with our sexuality, our scope of potential relationships, or our skillset of responses to what other people near and far throw at us, our point within our idealism/cynicism continuum should be allowed to move back and forth in response to forces and people and circumstances. With a lot of work and a little luck, we mature along a broad band far from the polar extremes of crusty, embittered cynicism and pie-in-the-sky, eyes-shut idealism. (Each extreme is merely an easy head-in-the-sand retreat position.) It's when the continuum freezes that you stop "growing up" and begin "dying down."

The short form: Eyes-open awareness, which includes, IMO, a healthy amount of cynicism, does not automatically negate idealism and curiosity. Instead, it can sharpen your tools, making that idealism and curiosity more productive, powerful, and enlightening that it could ever be for a child.

-- Mark Bourne (mbourne@sff.net), February 28, 2000.

I think that children have more child-like dreams and ideals and adults have more adult dreams and ideals. As a child I looked at the word through a childs eyes with simplistic desires and fantasy and as an adult my ideals are more complex and full. As an adult I have a perspective that is influenced by experience and knowledge. As a child I was learning just the basics of learning to think expansively and creatively. I applied fantasy to the way the world worked to fill in what I did not realize. I wanted to understand the world and find my place in it. However, my view of the world was small and my knowledge of how it worked was limited.

Early on I realized that the world was very big and ideas very diverse. I embarked on a life of discovery at a pace that fit my ability and interests. I also realized that my personal ideals are ever evolving and should always be challenged. I learned that if I held onto ideals so firmly that I did not see the rest of the world or others points of view, I missed out on living and understanding. For some it seems simplistic ideals are easy to understand. Hard held ideals seem so easy to believe and defend, just deny all other views and support a stance through the honor of conviction. These kinds of ideals keep some from being able to hear and learn from others perspectives, leading to avoiding truly expansive thought. I find the greater challenge and exploration is sometimes in challenging and discovering myself not challenging the world.

I think the world changes as the effect of everyone in it doing small things and influencing the world in their own seemingly small ways. People of singularly great influence are rare and often become notably influential by just doing their own little part and suddenly being recognized. In truth they were able to influence the world by all that influenced them.

But Diego, what do you think?

-- Lee (leet@megsinet.net), February 28, 2000.

Of course not *petulant, inquisitive stare*.

-- Ms. Enigmatic (enigma@chorus.net), February 29, 2000.

Heh. Ms. Enigmatic said it best. Brevity =is= the soul of ... somethingorother.

-- Mark Bourne (mbourne@sff.net), February 29, 2000.

ooh - i think somebody just got sassed! ;)

-- ann monroe (nayad@inorbit.com), February 29, 2000.

Well, in that I sorta sassed on m'self, yes. Ms. Enigmatic, with great aplomb, hit my meaning spot on, but did it with far fewer words -- and with a facial expression to boot! Here, I have an essay on the subject I'd like to share... ;{)

-- Mark (mbourne@sff.net), February 29, 2000.

There are days when I struggle with the balance needed for this --- a succinct answer does not always reflect simplicity in implementation. I could write a book on implementing the idea.....

*soft smile*

-- Ms Enigmatic (enigma@chorus.net), March 11, 2000.