i am interested in purchasing a used manual focus 35mm camera. my main interest lies in b&w nature and outdoor portrait photography. i have no interest in the newer electronic cameras. any and all recommedations are appreciated. additionally, any dealers in the new york city area i might want to deal with or avoid. thanks everyone. please reply to e-mail address below.

all the best, robert goodman nat24@aol.com

-- robert goodman (nat24@aol.com), February 25, 2000

Answers

First tell us what you're willing to spend. Just about all the makers (Canon, Konica, Minolta, Olympus, Pentax, Nikon, etc.) had/have bodies and lenses for what you want to do. If you are looking for features like mirror lock up and interchangeable prisms, the list gets a lot shorter.

-- Bruce Rubenstein (b_rubenstein@yahoo.com), February 26, 2000.

sorry for now including price range. $500 is about as much as i'd like to spoend for an older used manual 35mm camera. many thanks.

robert goodman

-- robert goodman (nat24@aol.com), February 26, 2000.

$500 give you a good, but not infinite, number of choices. Another thing to keep in mind is that prices from a dealer will be higher than buying from an individual. You'll do much better buying private party.

My brand experience is Pentax and Nikon, so I'll stick to those. I think some form of auto exposure is a good thing to have for working quick, and that's why I don't have all manual bodies. Pentax and Nikon both made/make good lenses for what you want to shoot, but there are more used Nikon ones around than Pentax, so my brand preference is Nikon. Top 3 models to look for are FE, FE2 and FA. You can get to great information on these cameras via this link: http://www.nikonlinks.com/ On the photo.net side you will see endless threads on which is better. Basic size, weight and layout are similar. Non of them have mirror lock up, but all have mirror pre-fire when the self timer is used. The FE is the oldest, and a used one may need the mirror and film back foam seals replaced. It can also mount non AI lenses, which are pretty inexpensive, but only give you stop down metering. On ebay they go for $150 - $200. The FE2 has a brighter screen, higher top shutter and flash sync speed and TTL flash metering. They have become something of a cult camera and start on ebay at around $300. The FA has more features than the FE2 and handles better (less vibration, smoother shutter release and a body grip). Although they cost more than the FE2 when new, they lack cult status and now cost less. I have an FE2 and FA, and like the FA better. On ebay you might be able to get a FA, 105/2.5 and 28/2.8 for $500. With this combination, a tripod and fine grained film you'll be close to the limits of 35mm photography.

-- Bruce Rubenstein (b_rubenstein@yahoo.com), February 26, 2000.

Given your budget, I'd pop for a new Nikon FM2N and a new(used) 50/1.8. The new body will give years of trouble-free shooting. The difference between new(gray market) and used FM2N bodies isn't huge. I have several older Nikon bodies(F, Nikkormats, FE)and love 'em all, but I got them at fire sale prices and wouldn't pay the current asking prices for replacements. This is where the new FM2N makes sense.Used MF Nikkors in popular focal lengths and speeds are never hard to find.

-- Gary Watson (cg.watson@sympatico.ca), February 26, 2000.

Avoid any camera which requires mercury batteries (most Konicas, for example). The replacement options mostly stink -- air cells have a limited life span after installation independent of usage and the bizarro gadgets for voltage conversion don't inspire my confidence much, either.

-- John O'Connell (joconnell@adelphia.net), February 26, 2000.

Like other's here, I'm more familiar with the Nikon product line.

For outdoor portraits, you'll probably want to use fill flash. That means you'll want a camera with a high flash synch shutter speed. So you're probably not interested in the FE, FM or F3 camera bodies.

That leaves you with the FA, FE2 and FM2n (Nikon also made the N2000 and N6000 manual focus camera bodies, but they are so similar to their AF siblings that I'm assuming your not realy interested).

FAThe latest of theses three bodies. Nikon's first camera body with matrix metering (also has centerweighted metering). Does not include an exposure lock button. Has shutter priority, aperture priority and fully automatic program modes also has a fully manual mode. Also has TTL flash.
FE2A simnpler camera than the FA. Only has centerweighted metering (and it DOES have an exposure lock) and only aperture priority and full manual modes. Has a better realiability reputation than the FA (although it's shutter is electronic, it has far less electronics than the FA).
FM2nOnly one of these three cameras that is still being made. It's all manual and has an all mechanical shutter (if battery dies, you only lose the light meter). It does NOT have TTL flash metering.
All three of these cameras have a top shutter speed of 1/4000 sec and can flash synch (fastest speed you can use the flash with) at 1/250 sec. They are all very similar in size and weight. They all can use the same MF-16 data back and the all can use the MD-12 motor drive (the FA can also use the MD-15 motor drive which is no longer in production).

Hope this helps. --Jeff

-- Geoffrey S. Kane (grendel@nauticom.net), February 26, 2000.

Hi Robert,

Hope you got my e-mail. I forgot to mention the Pentax MZ-M (ZX-M). It is electronic but with no picture mode (landscape, action, etc) and it focuses manually. It has DOF preview, exposure compensation, AE lock, ISO override. It's really simple to use. I think it's around 200$ or less at B&H new with warranty (35-80 or a 50/2 included). I started out with this camera and liked it so if you don't mind just a little electronic I would say it's a good bargain.

-- Erick Lamontagne (meteo.ygp@globetrotter.net), February 27, 2000.

I would stick With the FE2, it is a really great camera. Apart from Manual exposure, you have one A (aperture pr.) mode to make is a little easyer from time to time. Main Selling points:

- longest shutter speed: 8 sec, against 1sec of the FM2 anf FA (not so sure about the last one) - TTL, Fa has it, FM2 doesnt. - Titanium shutter tested for 100,000 expores, unlike the other 2, only to 50,000 - really great meter - you can see on the entire scale the light level and establish a direct relation between light avalible and selected shutter speed, while the other 2 have LED's for + and -. - there is MLU by using the timer function. - good combo with the MD12 (also true for FM2 and FA)

why not FA: - basicly the Matrix metering only workes with AIS lenses (AF too?) that are more expensive than AI lenses. so unless you buy these lenses you will have only centerweighted metering, so spending more on an FA will be uselles. why buy it? MD15 can power the body with the motor powersource. more programs (S and P)

FM2: Mechanical, if you are goin to use a handheld meter, its a plus. if not, it doesnt really matter, since without battery there is not light metering.

again if you going to do long exp. like a few sec. the only choice between the 3 is FE2 since it has shutter speed till 8 secs.

hope it helps a little bit, sorry for talking only about Nikon but those are the only ones I know trouhg direct experience. Another Good Alternative that I have been observing is COntax and Olympus OM series but they are a little bit more expensive.

Good luck.

-- Diego K. (Heuristica@yahoo.com), February 27, 2000.

I would suggest you first decide whether you want to use an SLR or a rangefinder camera. Then decide whether you wish to use an exposure meter for precise exposure control or will accept a through the lens meter of an SLR.

Rangefinder cameras can be bought for $400 - Leica, Canon,etc. with a first class lens.

SLRs are in their multitudes in that price range.

Rangefinder cameras are very quiet and unobtrusive whereas SLRs are bulky and a bit noisy. They are quite different types of operation. See if you can try both before deciding. We all have our preferences and I think you should decide which you are more comfortable with.

Good luck.

-- Anthony Brookes (gdz00@lineone.net), February 27, 2000.

Nature photography will almost certainly get you into the realm of wanting a long lens, or close-up accessories, so don't blow all your money on just a camera body and standard lens. If you're not averse to buying secondhand, my advice would be go for something like a Pentax K1000. Lenses are plentiful and cheap on the "pre-owned" market. Even cheaper are the old screw-fit Pentaxes and lenses, but you have to look hard to get them in good condition these days. However, with a bit of luck your $500 will get you a very nice complete outfit.

-- Pete Andrews (p.l.andrews@bham.ac.uk), February 28, 2000.

Diego, the FA can do matrix metering with AI lenses (and AI-P, AI-S, AF & Series E lenses). It can not do matrix metering with lenses that were converted to AI and it cannot do matrix metering with the AI teleconverters (TC-14, TC-200 & TC-300). Matrix metering works fine with the TC-14A, TC-14B, TC-14C, TC-201 & TC-301.

The only funtionality gained by using AI-S lenses (and AI-P AF, & Series E lenses) is that the FA can "sense" telephoto lenses and favor higher shutter speeds in program mode.

-- Geoffrey S. Kane (grendel@nauticom.net), February 28, 2000.

AIS, and later lenses (including Series E), are required for Program and Shutter Priority auto exposure modes with the FA. One of the great half truths of 35mm photography is the unchanging Nikon F mount. The mechanical mounting of the lens hasn't changed, but the way information is transfered between the body and lens has changed many times, and continues to evolve.

-- Bruce Rubenstein (b_rubenstein@yahoo.com), February 28, 2000.

I really don't want to turn this thread into a dissertation on the FA; however.... From the chart on page 18 of the FA's manual:

+----------------------------------------+-----+------+---+---+---+
|		 			 | P N | P HS | S | A | M |
+------------------------+---------------+-----+------+---+---+---|
|			 |135 or longer	 |  X  |  O   | O | O | O |
|AI-S Nikkor		 +---------------+-----+------+---+---+---|
|			 |105 or shorter |  O  |  X   | O | O | O |
+------------------------+---------------+-----+------+---+---+---|
|AI-Nikkor				 |  O  |  X   | O | O | O |
+------------------------+---------------+-----+------+---+---+---|
|			 |135 or longer	 |  X  |  O   | O | O | O |
|Nikon Series E		 +---------------+-----+------+---+---+---|
|			 |105 or shorter |  O  |  X   | O | O | O |
+------------------------+---------------+-----+------+---+---+---|
|AI converted				 |  O  |  X   | O | O | O |
+----------------------------------------+-----+------+---+---+---|
|PC					 |  X  |  X   | X | X | O |
+----------------------------------------+-----+------+---+---+---|
|Reflex Nikkor				 |  *  |  X   | * | O | O |
+----------------------------------------+-----+------+---+---+---|
|Medical Nikkor				 |  X  |  X   | X | X | O | 
+----------------------------------------+-----+------+---+---+---|
|TC-201, TC-301, TC-14A and TC-14C	 |  X  |  O   | O | O | O |
+----------------------------------------+-----+------+---+---+---|
|TC-200, TC-300 and TC-14		 |  O  |  X   | O | O | O |
+----------------------------------------+-----+------+---+---+---|
|Bellows, K ring			 |  X  |  X   | X | O | O |
+----------------------------------------+-----+------+---+---+---+

Key:
O = In operation or possible
X = Not possible
* = Because aperture is fixed in Reflex Nikkor lenses, only shutter speed is shifted.

Then on page 23 you'll find this notice:

The following lenses cannot be used in the P or S mode:
Zoom-Nikkor 50-300mm f/4.5 ED (older AI type without orange minimum aperture on ADR scale)
AI modified Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/4

When using a Nikon Teleconverfer TC-200, TC-300 or TC-14, the shutter speed may vary by approx. one step from that displayed in the view finder. However you will still obtain the correct exposure.

With a teleconverter attached, shutter speeds become slower than those indicated by the normal or high-speed program line, respectively. Similarly, with an AI modified Nikkor or PK ring attached, shutter speeds become slower. While the actual shutter speed will be the one indicated by the LCD and correct exposure is assured even in these cases, be sure to check the LCD to avoid blurred images at slower shutter speeds.

And a similar notices is on page 27.

The following lenses cannot be used in the P and S modes:
Zoom Nikkor 50-300mm f/4.5 ED (older Al-type without orange minimum aperture on ADR scale)
AI modified Micro Nikkor 105mm f/4

In the S mode. if an aperture of f/11 or smaller is selected the following AI-Nikkor (including AI-modified) lenses may cause approx one step slower shutter speeds than those indicated by the shutter speed indication or by the LCD in the viewfinder; however, you will still get the correct exposure In case exact shutter speed information is desired, use the A or M mode the lenses are:
Nikkor 24mm f/2
Nikkor 28mm f/2
Nikkor 35mm f/1.4
Nikkor 35mm f/2
Nikkor 35mm f/2.8
Nikkor 50mm f/1.2
Nikkor 50mm f/1.8
Nikkor 50mm f/2
Nikkor 55mm f/1.2
Noct Nikkor 58mm f/1.2
Nikkor 105mm f/2.5 (The same thing happens with this lens at aperture between f/5.6 and f/16)
Nikkor 135mm f/2.8
Nikkor 200mm f/4

When using a Nikon teleconverter TC-200, TC-300, or TC-14, the shutter speed may vary by approx one step from that displayed in the viewfinder. However, you will still obtain the correct exposure.

I know Nikon manuals aren't error free (and neither is my typing ;) ) and I can't say that I've tried all these lenses on an FA; however while AI-S lenses may be preferred by the FA, the FA can do some things with AI lenses that the FE2 can't.

-- Geoffrey S. Kane (grendel@nauticom.net), February 29, 2000.

I stand corrected. I know that to keep from trying to remember what works how where, and my primary body is a F100, I just get AF-D lenses. Still like the FA.

-- Bruce Rubenstein (brubenstein@lucent.com), February 29, 2000.

Leica R8. Ken Hansen Photographic is the place to go. Excellent prices, and a friendly staff used to dealing with professionals.

-- Ellis Vener (evphoto@insync.net), February 29, 2000.

Ellis? Hello Ellis, Gary's list is second door on the right.

-- Bruce Rubenstein (brubenstein@lucent.com), March 01, 2000.

For good used mail order equipment, try Roberts Imaging in Indianapolis. I recommend them wholeheartedly.

http://www.robertsimaging.com/used/

How about this for less than $500? A Nikon FE for $165 with 24 mm F2.8 for $150, 50mm F1.4 for $45 and 100 F2.8 (E series) for $85. A manual focus camera with three great primes for $445, if they're all still in stock./

-- Rick Moore (rmoore@hepn.com), March 03, 2000.

I would pick up a N2000, great overbuilt, over engineered camera, can use almost all the family of lenses, great flash capabilities and solid metal chassis under the rubber armored body, also a small point, the back locks securely with "steel catch" not a bloody plastic one, have used one of these since they came on the market, this is one of Nikons greats, just not known except to a select few, "unbrakeable" try to find the optional double AA battery conversion bottom plate.

-- Rory Keogh Gibbons (rkgibbons@juno.com), November 01, 2001.