TOTALLY OT; RJ Reynolds is being creative on trying to hook kids

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

You know how there are regulations at the Federal and State levels regarding illegal tobacco sales to minors (anyone under 18)? You also have seen all those warm, caring ads put out recently by the tobacco companies too, I'm sure?

Well obviously the government is putting a crimp on the tobacco companies' ability to CULTIVATE A NEW CROP OF SMOKERS (OUR CHILDREN). And research indicates that if you can get smokers to start in their early teens--they have even more trouble ever breaking the habit than folks who start smoking in their late teens or adulthood.

We got wind today from a reliable source in one of the tobacco programs that RJ REYNOLDS IS USING A NEW APPROACH AND WILL BEGIN GIVING AWAY FREE SMALL PACKS OF CIGARETTES AT CONCERTS!!!!! NO JOKE.

THEY CAN'T SELL 'EM TO MINORS ANYMORE OR ADVERTISE TO MINORS SO THEY FOUND A WHOLE NEW LOOPHOLE. THERE APPEARS TO BE NO LAW SAYING THEY CAN'T GIVE THEM TO MINORS SO THEY ARE GOING TO ACT JUST LIKE THE DRUG DEALERS THEY ARE AND GIVE THEM TO THE KIDDIES TO GET THEM HOOKED!

WHAT A BUNCH OF SLIMEBALLS. PARENTS AND ENRAGED CITIZENS--PLEASE SPEAK OUT.

-- tt (cuddluppy@aol.com), February 22, 2000

Answers

Ok, I'll speak out. If you don't want to be addicted, DON'T SMOKE! If you do (and I find it VERY hard to believe that children today don't know cigarettes are addictive) then SMOKE! I started smoking when I was 13 and guess what? It's NOT THE CIGARETTE COMPANIES FAULT!!! It was MY descision and it's MY fault I wound up a smoker, no one elses.

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.CON), February 22, 2000.


TECH32, I think your argument is valid for adults -- they have the responsibility to make their own decisions AND to live with the results. As long as there is no deception or fraud and their actions are not detramental to others adults should be free to make these types of decisions for themselves. BUT NOT CHILDREN.

A child cannot be trusted to make a responsible decision about whether or not to drive or take drugs or even what kids to "hang with". Adult supervision is absolutely necessary in these areas. No responsible adult would allow their child to "sniff" some chemical substance to get high and would be outraged if some company did so without their knowledge and against their will. This is precisely what cuddlepuppy states is being done above. This should not be tolerated. We are loosing parental responsibility at government levels with alarming speed and we certainly do not need some other sneaky immoral company adding to the problem.

Sincerely hope you have been able to quit with no long term problems.

Regards, RLW

-- RLW (rlw6883@ipa.net), February 22, 2000.


Give it a rest! If parents do their job raising their kids teaching them about smoking & drugs. The kids will still do what they want anyway. I started smoking in 1957. The government didn't have a problem with smoking. For that matter niether anyone else. As a matter of fact the redcross & military gave free smokes away to anyone in a war zone. If just out of the country 10" a pack.

The only thing with smoking now is BIG MONEY for lawyers & governments.

The smokers dies earlier saving on medical bills. While the nonsmoker ends up on medicare rolls for years, so what. I smoke, it was my choice, the BIG MONEY is not going to get me off smoking. Its going to pay for what ever the government wants to spend it on. Its not closing down the makers of the product, its not going to stop kids from smoking (unless you call 1% a big deal) Wake up, smoke'um if you got. Thats my 2", the only thing going on is another way for government to steal peoples money.

-- Awdragon (awdragon@yahoo.com), February 22, 2000.


I was offered beers more times than I can remember when I was under age. Friends seemed to always have access to them. Never started drinking. Never even liked alcohol of any kind. Can't even spell it!

My friends smoked,..I smoked. They all quit. I still smoke. I guess if cigarettes never were available to me, I might not have started. I think if my friends were all non smokers, I might not have started. It was so long ago, I don't recall if my reasons were my peers. One thing I know for sure, cigarette ads meant nothing to me and they still do.

No question about it though...back in the 50's when smoking was "the thing to do" no one really knew the dangers. THOSE people really can blame their health problems on the tobacco companies. I'm glad there are strong anti-smoking campaigns aimed at teens, and I'm glad they've cracked down on teen smoking. However, the taxes on the cigarettes are excessive and unfair....in New Jersey..it's unbelievably corrupt.

I've just spent a lot of space here, and I'm not sure what my point is. I'll just leave it, for what it's worth. (smoking kills brain cells or something, right?)

-- kritter (kritter@adelphia.net), February 22, 2000.


RLW,

Gotta disagree. Kids KNOW certain activities are dangerous yet some go ahead and do them anyway. If a kid rides his bike down a steep hill, runs a stop sign and then gets squashed by a truck, it's not the trucks fault. It's not the bikes fault. It's not the hills fault. It's the KIDS fault.

Look, the choices we make, good bad or indifferent, are ours to make. They shape our lives and some have long lasting consequences. Parents can help guide you in your choices but they cannot make them for you. If a kid knows smoking is harmful, then smokes anyway, it's the kid's fault. Period.

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.CON), February 22, 2000.



so, i guess because it is this "person's" (the teen's) fault who is halfway between childhood and adulthood (as you would say tech32) then the industry has no culpability. nor do pedophiles if a kid "chooses" to have sex with them. nor do the alchohol, pornography, gambling, or other "sin enterprises" that are targeting our kids (using every conceivable form of mass communications/persuastion including subliminal) for their next generation of addicted customers. i suppose you would even agree with that judge in MD that said to the 11 year old who was raped, "it takes two to tango"?

tech32--obviously you don't know anything about child development or psychology. teens are NOT YET ADULTS. sure you had a "choice" and so you must bear the consequences of those "immature" choices but those who contributed to your "choices" also bear guilt (IN GOD'S EYES). no one gets off the hook when they cause another to sin.

sure, dump the blame on the parents. in this day and age, there are still a lot of caring parents who are SWIMMING AGAINST A TIDAL WAVE trying to raise decent kids in this culture where: a president can have oral sex in the oval office and talk about it in public, filth of every sort just pours out of the tv and over the airwaves, morality is considered politically incorrect and intolerant. AND CLUELESS PEOPLE WHO DON'T GET IT ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM BECAUSE THEY THINK A YOUNG PERSON HAS A "CHOICE".

-- tt (cuddluppy@aol.com), February 23, 2000.


I'm not for tobacco companies giving out free cigarettes to kids but heres a great article on summing up the governments role in all of this. Go to A HREF="http://www1.sjmercury.com/columnists/barry/docs/db022000.htm"/A

-- Patriot (taxslave@webtv.net), February 23, 2000.

Well, I can't link but the URL is good.

-- Patriot (taxslave@webtv.net), February 23, 2000.

>> I find it VERY hard to believe that children today don't know cigarettes are addictive <<

Children today have been told thousands of times that cigarettes are addictive. However, there is a large difference between being told a thing and knowing it. Adolescents have a noticeable tendency to discount what they are told and to find out things for themselves.

There are only two ways an adolescent could have any appreciation of what cigarette addiction really is, from firsthand experience, and not hearsay.

First, they could know a late-stage cigarette addict as an important figure in their lives, someone who could not only tell them about addiction, but whose life and state of health speak for themselves. It would do no good for them to know another adolescent who has smoked for less than 5 years. Even then, 5 years of cigarette addiction is just the early stages.

Second, they could become a smoker, become addicted, and learn the hard way.

Other than that, there is NO WAY for children today to know that cigarettes are addictive. It is just so many words to them. Of course, that is no reason to stop telling them.

-- Brian McLaughlin (brianm@ims.com), February 23, 2000.


Whats wrong with smoking? Did I miss something?

Smoking is really, really G o o o o d.

Mmmmm. C i g a r e t t e s

+++++++++++++ Explanation: I am on day 51 of no smokie,smokie. I miss them sometimes. Not alot though. The psychological effects are enough to piss off the pope. Ciggies are pretty bad. But not as bad as lifestyle nazis.

-- Ivan (workin@ntherailroadallthelivelong.day), February 23, 2000.



I kinda have my doubts about this. I believe the law includes both the sale and DISTRIBUTION of tobacco to minors. That would include giving away free samples.

Also, most concert halls are non-smoking nowadays and I don't think they would allow it.

-- Steve (sron123@aol.com), February 23, 2000.


The statement "got wind from a reliable source in one of the tobacco programs", isn't verifiable is it? I heard from someone who heard from someone. Ayep. These anti-smoking folks wouldn't be a little biased now would they? They wouldn't attempt to demonize big tobacco on a slow news day, hmmm? You know, just to keep the troops enthusiasm and spirits up. I'm not buying it.

-- Scottsworth (NewEnglander@Ct.com), February 23, 2000.

The latest Thing of course is "GENERIC" Cigarette Advertising.The Cigarette Producers almost weekly invent some BS Story,that is aired on TV.While they are talking,the Media shows Young and Old puffing on Cigarettes,seemingly enjoying themselves.The Story in the meantime has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Story being told.Talk about subliminal Brainwashing and circumventing the Purpose of the Law.Of Course,what do You expect from Corporate Creeps,that swear under Oath,that Cigarette Smoke is neither harmful or addictive.BTW,why are these Liars not jailed?Are You there Janet Reno??

-- Spring Time (no@puff.it), February 23, 2000.

tt,

Actually I do know something (as opposed to nothing) about child development and psychology. I was a psych minor in college (started as my major) and am also the parent of two young boys (ages 7 and almost 10). You claim teens are 'NOT YET ADULTS' but I ask "by who's standard?". In the Jewish faith a boy becomes a man at age 13 when he becomes a bar-mitzvah. It has been this way for thousands of years.

It is only in our VERY recent past (the last 60 years or so) that somehow one becomes at the stoke of midnight on their 18th birthday capable of being responsible for their own actions, yet just the day before they weren't capable. This is nonsense. There have been countless weddings where the bride, groom, or both were what we would consider today to be very young (13, 14, 15). Other cultures have similarly 'low' ages for things we consider very adult.

Once you reach 12 or 13 you stop thinking of the world in concrete terms ('are hot-dogs really made of dogs?') and are able to deal with abstract ideas like the future, death, and the consequences of the actions you take. You may not CARE about those things but you can understand them clearly, and in my opinion, that's when you become responsible for the CHOICES you make in life. Are the young more vulnerable, more easily influenced? You bet. And that's why it's our job as parents to guide them into making the right choices. But the choices will always remain theirs.

I find it interesting that you use the phrase "IN GOD'S EYES" in this discussion since it's pretty clear that God thinks someone becomes an adult when He has them go through puberty. Can you think of another species God created where the 'Adult' stage of life does *not* begin with the onset of the ability to reproduce?

Brian,

To be sure there is a difference between being told a thing and knowing it. But I tend to think it's more a matter of them not caring than not knowing. Otherwise all teenagers would smoke, use drugs, etc. I know lots of people who have never smoked. Why? Because they chose not to. There is and always will be a minorty of teens who engage in 'risky' behavior because they do not CARE about the consequences. Nothing 'society' can ever do to change that.

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.CON), February 23, 2000.


Moderation questions? read the FAQ