Solution: Call AOL Customer Service and threaten to cancel your account?!

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

...cause the net just ain't no fun no more...

Hey, AOL don't respond to their complaints of spam e-mails...I guess they make to much money off the porn industry..

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), February 19, 2000

Answers

Hmmm...

Seems like this is a good example of the kind of grass-roots "anti- corporate" rumblings that were discussed quite eloquently in "The Cluetrain Manifesto" (check out www.cluetrain.org). Interesting that nobody from AOL ever bothers wandering around discussion forums like this to see what the public things of them. They probably figure that with 19 million subscribers, they rule the planet -- and they don't worry about whether one or two individuals like Hokie cancels his account (especially if they make it so hard to do!).

Years ago, when AOL was just getting started and when today's ISP's didn't exist, many of us "professional" computer folks used CompuServe in order to get the best combination of AOL-like features and discussion forums like this one, etc. We were convinced at the time that most people would use AOL as "training wheels" to get started, and would then get sufficiently annoyed that they would move on to better providers. And perhaps that's true -- maybe AOL is able to continue its growth simply because 19 million subscribers means that there are still 231 million other newbies out there who have not yet had their first on-line experience....

Ed

-- Ed Yourdon (ed@yourdon.com), February 19, 2000.


Know something else about AOL?! We did not want AOL as our ISP last November and cancelled... they refused to accept the cancel because I wasn't my wife and my wife wasn't me...it was my wife's name on the account and it was my credit card that paid the account... we told them that the pornography was out of hand and we wanted off! They hung up on me the first time, the second time told me I couldn't because it was in my wife's name, and third, fourth, fifth and the sixth time they told me that they would re-enstate our account if we paid them the bill(past charges for December1999 and January2000), as our account was closed to non payment... why? in November 99 after telling them to cancel I requested my CC service department to stop allowing them to debit my account...they did! Now AOL say we owe them because they don't have document that I ever spoke to anyone in November...but the CC statement says differently and I did document it and the name of the rep I spoke with...now they say the rep didn't document it either. Big mess dealing with this multi-corporate monster AOL...it is turned against anyone who attempts to pull profit from it...They are rude on the phone...they lie to you...and they will sell your viewing window information to anyone who will buy it...with or without your permission! Remember, they got us to installlthere program and windows stuff and it is part of the system now...you may cancel your account but they still can access your information etc... scary!

-- S BRyan G (sbrg3@juno.com), February 19, 2000.

I subscribe annually and I tried to get them to not renew my subscription in December. All was well and I was scrambling to find another ISP before Jan when AOL ran out. Surprise #1 The ISP won't let me install due to AOL 5.0 and #2 I got a bill for another full year of AOL on my credit card. So now I am going to get my computer wiped and then install AOL 3.0 and slowly transfer everything to the new ISP. Then during the year I am going to request a new credit card number for my Visa and let the SOBs try and charge me again. I have had it with AOL and every dollar their stock falls, I celebrate! Taz....who is enjoying becoming a nasty old lady!!

-- Taz (Tassi123@aol.com), February 19, 2000.

Taz, way to go. Good for you. We've been using BellSouth.Net for four or five years now. They are the only ISP we have ever used, and by in large, they are pretty good. Know AOL has lots of extra privileges, but they seem to have a lot of problems too.

Good luck in finding a new ISP that fits your needs.

-- Lurkess (Lurkess@Lurking.XNet), February 19, 2000.


my brother has been in the computer business for a long time. he told me to be very careful in canceling aol as they will continue to charge your credit card for monthes after you cancel. they are notorious for this.i am planning on changing and also plan on calling my credit account and informing them not to accept charges from aol when i do change.hope it works.laura

-- laura cavallari (ladygoat13@aol.com), February 19, 2000.


In re to the 'speaking' to AOL personnel. Never, never, never CALL. Always put it in writing, in the form of a legal Notice and Demand. This has been extremely successful in obtaining action from reluctant businesses. The form follows:

Notice

To Whom It May Concern

I hereby unilaterally cancel any and all accounts with your company. I hereby recind any authorization for billing to the following credit account xxxx-xxxx-xxxx, or any other credit account associated with me.

Demand

You (the company) will delete my name from your database. You will not distribute, disseminate, give, pass, or share any information about the account assignee, the account activity, or the account accesses.

Response

You have 30 days from the date on this Notice to respond in the following manner: 1) in writing; 2) addressing each point of the above Demand; 3) signed in ink; 4) by a corporate official competent to do so.

Lack of Response (Default)

Your lack of Response to this letter will indicate: 1) your complete aggreement to the points detailed in the Demand; 2) your aggreement to comply with the points of the Demand; 3) activate estoppel (prevents them from pursueing any collection efforts due to Default)

This form of letter works VERY well in getting a company to act. I have used to refuse bank card LATE FEES, ANNUAL FEES, and even interest in some cases. I have used this to save myself and my Father over $800 in the last two years. It is powerful, and really can make a company jump thru its asshole when you want it too.

Never, never, never call. It does not preserve your Rights.

-- Jonas Squire (jws210@aol.com), February 19, 2000.


Here is the best source I've found to find and research ISP's

http://thelist.internet.com/ You can find all the ISP's in your area by entering your area code.



-- Chris (#@$%&@pond.com), February 19, 2000.


Jonas thanks for this info. I've made a template of your letter for future use. I have a question and a comment:

What does "estoppel" mean? or was it a typo? Can't find it in my dictionary.

My comment is that one probably should send the letter registered mail, otherwise the company could just trash the letter and say they never recieved the notice.

-- Chris (#@$%&@pond.com), February 19, 2000.


Canceled AOL when they merged w/Time Warner -- have a crazy teenager and didn't want anything to do w/Mr. Turner or his enterprises. Anyway, had no problem w/cancelation -- faxed request -- but did have a problem w/them calling every day to get me to sign back up. Great thing about having an unlisted phone number is they have to comply w/your request to remove you from their calling list when you state you have unlisted number.

-- claurann (claurann@frontiernet.net), February 19, 2000.

Jonas, thanks for the form letter. I copied it for future reference. I just cancelled my AOL account yesterday ON THE PHONE. Now I see I need to mail them a registered letter also. One question about the template...the part LACK OF RESPONSE (default) do I insert (default) or is that just for my information?

Thanks,

-- Virginia Dickinson (handright@yahoo.com), February 19, 2000.



From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

Instead of sending important documents as registered mail, I like to send them with "proof of mailing." It costs only $.50 and allows you to see what they will do if they don't think you've protected yourself.

-- (addy.available@my.webpage), February 19, 2000.


Jonas,

Good tip! But I enjoy my bi-monthly AOL coasters, and have a collection upwards of 20 now. Has anyone else thought of household uses for the dang AOL cd junkmail? Maybe I can get someone to throw them like frisbees for shooting practice?

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), February 19, 2000.


Thanks Jonas, I also copies your form letter and will re-confirm my wishes with the AOL empire. BRyan

-- S BRyan G (sbrg3@juno.com), February 19, 2000.

From Ballentine's Law Dictionary,estoppel---

A bar which stoppeth a person or closes up his mouth to allege or plead what actually may be the truth. 2 Coke, Littleton 352a. A bar which precludes a person from denying or asserting anything to the contrary of that which has, in contemplation of law, been established as the truth,either by the acts of judicial or legislative officers or by his own deed or representations, express or implied. 28 Am J2d Estop article 1.

A waiver being the intentional relinquishment of a known right, is consensual in nature and is distinguished from an estoppel which is not consensual, but is given effect to defeat the inequitable intent of the party estopped. Seavey v Erickson, 244 Minn 232, 69 NW2d 889, 52 ALR2d 1144.

The elements of estoppel by acts or representations are reliance by a person entitled to rely on the acts and representations, the misleading of such person, and, in consequence, a change of position to his detriment, so that the person responsible for the misleading will not be permitted to deny the truth of his own statements, express or implied. 29A Am J Rev ed Ins article 1009. Although the terms "waiver" and "estoppel" are not convertible, the distinction between the two terms is not entirely clear in insurance cases. Grantham v State Farm Mut. Auto. Ins. Co. 126 Cal App 2d Supp 855, 272 P2d 959, 48 ALR2d 1088. I use ballentine's instead of black's because ballentine's is antedoted,which means that the meanigs come from actual court cases and are in fact the lawful meanings.Black's is just like using a webster's.

-- just a thought (tigerpm@netscape.com), February 20, 2000.


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