Calling All Chemtrail Scoffers: Please Explain This Photo Away!greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
I'm real curious how our resident chemtrail scoffers will explain away this full U turn photo?
Imso are you out there?
Full U Turn Chemtrail Link
-- Chemtrails are real (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 17, 2000
Yeah, that's one of those nasty ones alright. When you see that stuff get indoors and close the windows.
Here's another u-turn one that Art Bell took in Nevada...
There wasn't any wind and you can see the curtain of the goo as it slides downward. They get a lot more bang for the buck if they spray when there is a wind, which is what they usually do.
-- Hawk (email@example.com), February 17, 2000.
-- Hawk (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 17, 2000.
Looks like the stuff sky writers use in the air. Why would anyone feel this is a good way of introducing anything? Not saying the gov is above introducing chem's to it's people. Spraying anything in the air is a big waste of $$$. (already been done at hanford study not conclusive enough) IE easier ways to introduce chem's. Water supplies for example. Free cheese??? sign for free cheese monitor subjects reaction. If reactions take a few years no one would connect.
-- wayne johnson (email@example.com), February 17, 2000.
Not overly paranoid at present, so it seems a "chemtrail" is a very poor means to introduce a chemical to a population. Why not spray food with it for ingestion, or put it in gasoline if you want people to breathe in the vapors? Also Hawk, that picture looks like it was taken out in the middle of NOwhere! What are "they" trying to do, spray the population one farmer at a time?
If .gov *is* spraying, my guess would be that it would be to get an idea of how an airborne chemical or biologic agent *would* spread if used. I for one don't know how much the eggheads who do satellite stuff for a living could make of the data, but I'd bet "a fair amount" if they had a good representation of the different areas of the country. Now whether "they" want to protect us from the evil A-rabs or spray us themselves at a later time is open to debate. :(
-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), February 17, 2000.
Way back in the 50's the U.S. Government did tests that proved that spraying was effective. Check it out below:
Typical BW Aerial Spray Test
In August and September of 1958, Dugway ran six night trials on the Aerial Spray Grid. The tests used a low flying F-100A with a modified a 275-gallon fuel tank to act as the spray dispenser. A critical point of the test was the performance of a nozzle that would spray out liquid particles 5 microns or less in size, so that minute drops of the liquid agent would float in the air over a wide area. The pilot flew the craft over a triangularly shaped course, approximately 15 miles long and 12 miles wide. In the area were 72 sampling devices and the 300 foot high tower with sampling devices very five feet at the end of the grid. Trials run to analyze the aerosol cloud behavior during the tests proved the capability of the aerial spray device. Results also indicated that an area 10 miles or better could be covered downwind. Five runs were made with simulants. One hot pass was made ( with guinea pigs placed at the sampling stations ) spraying the agent that causes Q fever. Indications were that if human beings had been in the area, 99 percent of them would have been infected. Other important results from the tests were these: that a spray device would disseminate BW aerosol more effectively than bombs, shells, or special BW munitions; and that the tank held a much larger quantity of liquid agent, in regard to the weight of the spray system, than other BW dissemination devices.
The tests proved that airborne BW attacks could be carried out at low levels, and that a properly designed spray system could contaminate 50,000 square miles with BW aerosol in a single sortie. The significance of this lies in the remarkable efficiency of this means of attack. For example, on a night when the wind was blowing ten miles per hour, three large aircraft, each carrying 4,000 gallons of liquid BW agent, and flying at a speed of 500 knots, could spray an area of 150,000 square miles, causing more than half the people in the area to become ill.
-- Chemtrails are real (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 17, 2000.
It occurs to me that if you really believed that you were being sprayed with nasty biological agents ("chem"-trails?) then you'd do something about it other than just whinging online.
So, which is it to be: too dumb or too lazy?
-- _ (_@_._), February 17, 2000.
Do what exactly....march up to the Pentagon or White House and demand that they stop......Ok, I am up off the floor now. Tongue biting mode on.
-- canthappen (email@example.com), February 17, 2000.
As a busy troll @ doesnt have time to respond because he's "whinging" on to another thread.
-- Art (###@###.###), February 17, 2000.
Ummm . . . perhaps it is a contrail made by a plane making a full U Turn? They do do that, you know. Particularly military planes or commercial planes in a holding pattern waiting to land.
On the other hand, what with all the theorizing going on about the Alaska Air crash being some kind of computer related problem, perhaps we could combine these two general threads into one giant "theory that explains everything." Perhaps (drum roll here) -- the Alaska Air crash was caused by a failure of the secret computer controlled chemtrail sprayer mounted in the tail of the plane.
After all, why assume that only government planes are doing the spraying. The big airlines are definitely in big with TPTB. Perhaps they are doing the spraying for their own reasons (like, the spray contains a biological agent that deadens the taste of food so that people will be less likely to complain about airline food). Or, perhaps the government has just asked private industry to help out on this; spraying the whole world is undoubtedly a big project.
-- E.H. Porter (firstname.lastname@example.org it), February 17, 2000.
Thanks, Art. E.H., I am not a chemtrails fan. It is something that seems bizarre, but weirder things have happened. Not an advocate, but not pooh-poohing the idea either. After all, how many would deny chemical warfare? A real guy-Sadaam-used it. On his own people. But, @ is making a point that if it is true, why not do something but 'whing'. I assume he means 'whine'. I didn't get the feeling the poster was whining, just adding information, which may be true. Pollies and Trolls hate bad news. That is their nature. And to attack the newsbearer is SOP. Always has been.
-- canthappen (email@example.com), February 17, 2000.
I saw a U-turn contrail on television. I think the reason given was that the ground crew had forgotten the particular brand of coffee. When the captain learned of the mistake, he returned to the original airport, presumably to obtain the correct brand of coffee.
-- Joseph Almond (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 17, 2000.
Frank: H ow long do you think it would take to test aeriel spraying? They have been spraying Western New York and Canada for well over a YEAR on a near DAILY basis . SOME TEST!! By the way I did call the newspaper. Explained what was happening. Didn't know what I was talking about. I said, " GO TO THE WINDOW, STICK YOUR HEAD OUT AND LOOK UP! THEY'RE THERE RIGHT NOW! " He hung up. I called the airport. Told them about the planes . They said there WERE NO PLANES. GOT IT FRANK?
-- Shoo (email@example.com), February 17, 2000.
@ has probably seen them, but was just mesmerized to realize the inherent danger he, she, or it was placing themselves in. Just staring at the sky looking at all the pretty colors, wondering why they feel sick all the time.
-- ,-, (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 17, 2000.
A plane made a U-Turn. I need NO FURTHERT EVIDENCE!!
I'm sorry this post is so late. I have been on the horn with my congressman and the PRESIDENT.
We need to stop this madness. As soon as I get over this nasty cold and my body stops aching from some weird ILLNESS I will go to Washington in person.
GREAT PHOTO!! GREAT RESEARCH!! VERY SCIENTIFIC, and you should take your place on Mr Hawk's team of researchers figuring out other stuff such as plane crashes, from the privacy of your own couch and backyard. This will save us so much money since we don't have to actually investigate anything.
ImSo Lame is with you all the way. HOORAY!!!
-- ImSo (email@example.com), February 17, 2000.
Do I detect a note of irony in your typing?
-- Richard Dymond (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 17, 2000.
"It occurs to me that if you really believed that you were being sprayed with nasty biological agents ("chem"-trails?) then you'd do something about it other than just whinging online.
So, which is it to be: too dumb or too lazy?"
Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm lazy, and I enjoy "whinging online."
-- Hawk (email@example.com), February 17, 2000.
Nothing wrong with being lazy, after all, "the end of work is leisure". And where else can such fun be had, at a leisurely pace, than TB2000?
-- Bemused (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 17, 2000.
"Whinging" ("WIN jing") is a British usage that goes back to 1500. According to the OED, it is a "whine, especially a peevish complaint."
What to do about chemtrails instead of whinging? Prepare a report with documents, pictures taken over your area. Include some of the more useful photos on the web that show u-turns and curtains of material dripping down.Give some of the anecdotal health statements that seem more plausible. Send to local politicians and newspapers.Post at your local general store bulletin board. Raise hell whenever and wherever.
Can't guarantee that they'll do much more than they did for Y2k, though.
-- Firemouse (email@example.com), February 17, 2000.
Are they spraying something that cannot be possibly measured. Anywhere?
What about water samples? Soil samples? Toxicology reports from hospitals of people smitten with mysterious illnesses??
Can the conspiracy be so thick that every toxicology lab, environmental lab, every lav everywhere in the country is covering up evidence??
Don't we have plenty of chemist-conspiracy theorists who would make an obsession of finding traces of these supposed toxins??
Until somebody can come up with a toxicology report, I unfortunately have to put chem-trails under the category of "Rubbish".
-- futureshock (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 17, 2000.
"They" are spraying stuff that lowers IQ. It is working properly.
-- ImSo (email@example.com), February 17, 2000.
FWIW, yesterday at noon during the news on our local CBS affiliate, our young weatherman showed a picture taken in the a.m. of some of our contrails. With a very straight face and normal demeanor he stated that they were just normal jet contails. The photo showed two trails in a "V" with another trail intersecting the "V" formation. I almost fell off my chair that he was even mentioning them. I guess the tv station must be getting a lot of "inquiries" as to what in the heck they are.
Later in the day when I went outside, I saw dozens and dozens of trails. This was the heavyest spraying we have ever seen. Was the tv guy trying to dispel concern? If so, that means that the media is definitely in "cahoots" with the sprayers.
Why haven't they showed contrails before on the news in the 40 years I have been living here? Why yesterday?
Also, my husband and I have been suffering strange flu-like symptoms for weeks. His upper respiratory problems are worse than mine. It sounds like a TB ward around our house.
In addition, Art Bell said Tuesday night that one of his sources reported that the chemtrails have a corrosive element to them. Then Art asked, "Where have we seen corrosion lately?" He did not elaborate.
Thus, ImSo, you've got your wish! The possible combining of two forum subjects into one. Thanks for thinking of it first!
-- Lurkess (Lurkess@Lurking.XNet), February 17, 2000.
Thanks for calling the photos to attention, Mr/s Chemtrails Are Real. Yesterday we had a beautiful clear sky, only perhaps 10 total chemtrails late in the afternoon, which created a hazy orange sunset in the SE sky. We were way out in the boonies and watched very carefully. Lots of planes flying leaving normal contrails which dissipated within 5 minutes. But then there were some others ... one of which made a dramatic "S" shape ... we still are boggled that whatever is doing whatever is still busy doing it. POLLUTION at the least.
Today is starting out clear.
Everywhere we go, when the chemtrails are obvious, we point them out. To anybody/everybody. Calmly. And to a one they say, "Well that is weird, and I never noticed that before." And sometimes the sky is spectacularly unnatural and we wonder why every person is not out on their lawn pointing to the sky! But more 'n more people, once they become aware, are questioning ...
It seems to be occurring over a large portion of the globe. Quite a feat, quite bizarre that most ppl have not noticed. Really says something that a clear sky can be plowed with streaks, tic tac toes, XXXXXs, and made oily cloudy, right in front of millions, and very few even notice.
This must be making some Honcho Evil wildly insanely cackling confident at the mooooo bbaaaaaa dumbness of the placid grazing sleeple, heads glued to their lazy hay stubbles of flacid TV propatainment, vapor 401Ks, and pursuit of the latest bimbo dumbo titillation.
-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 17, 2000.
There was no wind. So I assume you took a weather balloon with appropriate instrumentation and sent it aloft to the correct altitude? Let me know if you did this and then we'll discuss if there was no wind.
Chemtrail kooks, balloonists often change altitudes in order to catch a wind thatmore closely resembles the direction they want to go but don't take my word for it. Go on a champagne balloon ride and ask some damn questions.
-- Guy Daley (email@example.com), February 17, 2000.
"So, which is it to be: too dumb or too lazy?"
Couple of reasons--"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." -- (J.R.R. Tolkien)
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup." -- (Anon.)
"Do not meddle in the affairs of elementals, for they are considerably less subtle than wizards and therefore more likely to fry you where you stand." -- (Anon.)
Seriously -- do a websearch on "Danny Casolaro" -- who was neither dumb nor lazy. And think again.
As for the U-turn trail -- contrails only form at altitudes way above any aircraft in a landing pattern. But it wouldn't be out of the question for a military aircraft to hang a U way up there.
Couple of years ago driving thru Tennessee on I-75, I saw what seemed to be a flight of multi-engine jets flying westward (so high they were just dots leaving broad contrails) -- and coming up from behind them were 3 or 4 smaller planes leaving single contrails which (once they caught up) wove in and out of the formation of large planes. Nobody fell down so I assumed this was interceptor training.
In the late 'fifties SAC trained bomb crews using American cities resembling various targets in Russia. Several times on moonlit nights I watched a bomber come in toward St. Paul/Minneapolis, open the bomb bay door (brilliantly lit, I expect for ground cameras), and turn sharply away from its course. This was the drill to get clear of the burst.
-- Tom Carey (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 17, 2000.
Observed the following while driving on I-81 through Md/WVa & Va a week or so ago...typical short persisting jet contrails in the North...followed a few dozen miles later by the other kind: very long persisting contrails -- no apparent change in weather (at least on the ground). Clear, cool blue skies all the way down. All contrails observed appeared to be from planes at a normal cruising altitude.
Does anyone have an explanation as to what might cause such phenomena? I'm not claiming that the different appearing contrails have something sinister behind them...but what is causing this difference in contrail appearance/persistence on the same day in the same weather mass?
-- JustAnObserver (On@I81.com), February 17, 2000.
It has gotten to the point that it is a rare day when we are not being sprayed. I am becoming very pissed off about what the potential effects of this stuff will be on my young children. Tell me, Mr. disinformation specialist, who should I shoot first, and where can I find the guilty parties. I suspect that if you raised a big enough stink, you would be a prime candidate for either an "accident" or "involuntary suicide".
-- (Neither@goaway.com), February 17, 2000.
Frank, they used to put the stuff in gasoline, just like you said. Way back in the olden days they called it leaded gas. You've probably heard of it. There is a chemical in leaded gas that is real unhealthy, that's why they banned it ;) They also put that same chemical in a certain pesticide that were sprayed directly on crops until the mid-eighties. Following info from: http://www.edf.org/pubs/Newsletter/1994/May/k_gas.html The Leaded Gas 'Experiment'
Ethyl took advantage of earlier government acquiescence to run a similar experiment, one with now infamous results. Ethyl was founded in the 1920's to market tetraethyl lead, the octane-enhancing additive in leaded gasoline. At that time, lead was known to be toxic at high dose, but much less information existed on lower-dose effects. Concerns raised by the public health community were ignored with the result that from 1925 to 1985 more than seven million tons of lead were added to U.S. gasoline, then spewed from tailpipes into the environment. As a result of this and other uses of lead, lead poisoning among American children became a national epidemic, impairing the intellectual development of millions of American children. Just read that aviation gasoline is still leaded. According to this article, Europe is finally banning leaded for the year 2000. http://www.silencingscience.com/news2/eulead.htm The following article says that Bejing finally banned it in 1998. http://www.financialexpress.com/ie/daily/19980102/00250194.html Following from: http://earthsystems.org/list/envst-l/0239.html 19 JANUARY 1999
Contact: News & Information email@example.com 202-872-4451 American Chemical Society
Central Park Sediment Cores Contradict Current Scientific Thinking
Examining sediment cores from New York's Central Park Lake dating back 100 years, a group of scientists conclude that incineration of solid waste, rather than leaded gasoline, has been the dominant source of atmospheric lead to the New York City metropolitan area, and possibly many other urban areas during the 20th century.
Following info from: http://www.cadvision.com/fluoride/lead.htm Toxic heavy metals such as lead, manganese and cadmium, combined with prenatal or neonatal developmental insults, dietary deficits, and stress, damage the brain structures and down-regulate essential neurotransmitters. Previous research in this area has found:
Because lead and other toxic metals are retained in bone and astroglial cells in the brain, uptake during fetal development and early childhood has long-lasting effects on development and behavior.
Among the toxic effects of lead is a reduction of dopamine function (which disturbs the behavioral inhibition mechanisms in the basal ganglia) and glutamate (which plays an essential role in the long term learning associated with the hippocampus).
Manganese can downregulate serotonin function, reducing sociability and increasing aggressiveness or depression
That takes care of the gas. As for the crap they put in our food, who knows? Probably bad enough for you in the first place. Just to be safe I'll check out my cheese, though.
Back to contrails. I've worked outdoors my whole life and I've never seen planes leaving big crosses and patterns all over the sky, until fairly recently. I posted before about an article I read in Reader's Digest about weather modification. In that story it said that weather modification has been used since Vietnam. Everytime it snows here, conveniently, there have been massive patterns of these trails across the sky the day before the snow. Being it's only snowed a few times here in N. Minnesota, it's been pretty noticable. For those who claim the trails are from every plane that flies, why do we get huge amounts of air traffic on select days, and then there won't be a contrail in the sky for weeks. I guess we only get air traffic on certain days around here;)
-- J (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 17, 2000.
J, you said,
"Frank, they used to put the stuff in gasoline, just like you said. Way back in the olden days they called it leaded gas."
No offense, but give me a break! Tetraethyl-lead was put in gas because it was a CHEAP way to increase the effective octane of gas, not as some covert attempt to poison the populace. If you'll remember they also used lead in house paint, but discontinued it for the same reason (had to replace it with a more expensive substitute ((titanium)) due to adverse health effects on kids).
-- ,-, , you said,
"@ has probably seen them, but was just mesmerized to realize the inherent danger he, she, or it was placing themselves in. Just staring at the sky looking at all the pretty colors, ***wondering why they feel sick all the time***."
That's my big problem with this whole "chemtrails" thing. If someone has been spraying the populace with some biological or chemical agent for over a year, why aren't people getting sick? How many people do YOU know who are sick all the time? Where's the big increase in non-diagnosed emergency room admits?
If "they" really are spraying with malicious intent, "they" have great foresight. "They" are using an agent that won't affect the target population for more than a year after it was deployed. For foreign use you would have to know your enemy was going to war with you BEFORE they even attacked. Wouldn't that qualify as a first attack, or would it be called a pre-emptive retalliation or what?
It's all bologna,
-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), February 17, 2000.
Neither here nor there on these particular photographs, but...
I have been around computers and PhotoShop in particular long enough to know that ANY photograph, unless you saw it being taken and you developed the film, is suspect. Please don't think you can use online photos as "proof" of anything. Just because there was a fleet of space robots in the new Star Wars, does that mean they were really there? Photos can be doctored so well and so expertly; and even may I say so easily nowadays that you really must be cautious.
-- mommacarestx (email@example.com), February 17, 2000.
It's Superman farting.
-- (judgeJudy@chemtrail.trial), February 17, 2000.
Here is a link to a picture from ABC News showing the infamous chemtrails. I happened to be watching this story on television when it ran and the sky was the first thing I noticed.
-- Tee (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 17, 2000.
I have a question; concerning the chemtrials,? While looking at several over North Carolina today I took a picture of them at sunrise. Very interesting patterns, but to my question. Could this spraying actually be part a program with HARRP and WHO. ? The HAARP can activate the spray and change weather patterns,has anyone noticed just how strange the actual weather has been lately ? Second the WHO ( World Health Organization ) monitor the the spray materials and the reports of health related problems coming from the news wires and the hospital reports ?
-- Furie (email@example.com), February 17, 2000.
I have finally seen the chemtrails that people have been talking about and now I am one of the believers. They are real and they are not imagined. Anybody that says they are a fake or imagination needs to rethink their position. It's the airplanes that are a fake. When people look up and see a chemtrail they are imagining that there's an airplane in front of it. Please do not believe it! The source of the trails is our deceased parents,relatives,and friends trying to communicate with us. It is the best way and only way that they can talk to us and finally get our attention. It's a beautiful thing for them to do and the general population will finally have a way of making the long wanted connection with the deceased. It is their shorthand and sign language all together. Study the lines, curves, stops and starts and the messages become very visible in just a short time. It's simply fascinating what they're trying to tell us. When you see one next time just lay on your back in your yard and close your eyes just enough to barely allow the vision to be scene and soon you can read the messages. Some are short and some are quite long but everyone of them is meaningful. If there ever was a message from heaven it is what is in front of our eyes! Go look for yourself!
-- I Believe (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 18, 2000.
Tom Carey - Yes, the government did all kinds of experiments in your area in the 50s. It has come out in recent years that during that time the government sprayed SCHOOLS in Minneapolis with bio/chem stuff as a test.
-- Lurkess (Lurkess@Lurking.XNet), February 18, 2000.