See all this information at http://www.alernativemedicine.com/digest/issue15/15700.shtml

-- Gay Boling (Wilber@montanasky.net), February 15, 2000

Answers

Sorry try this http://www.alternativemedicine.com/digest/issue15/15700.shtml

This is an essay by Burton Goldberg t Alternative medicine site.

-- Gay Boling (Wilber@montanasky.net), February 15, 2000.

Hmmm...Interesting article. I think it's main contention, that the US military gave Iraq biological or germ weapons at some point in the past sets off my bull-stuff-o-meter.

The Iraqis DID get active cultures for many things which could be weaponized from the U.S. ATC (American Type Cultures) service. It is also very possible that either an unnoticed biologicals attack or destruction of a munitions cache did result in people being infected with some agent. Time will tell but the genie ain't stuck in the bottle anymore that's for sure.

-- Don Kulha (dkulha@vom.com), February 15, 2000.

That would explain many of the soldiers who have GWS after the Gulf war. Would like to know where all of the people who have similar illnesses, like CFS, CFIDS, Fibromyalgia, contacted these illesses. All information points to the fact that they are similar, and there appear to be "outbreaks". Any thoughts? Many people with CFIDS/CFS/Fibro were sick before 1991.

-- suzy (suzy@nowhere.com), February 15, 2000.

GWS probably has many different causes, from what I've read (not being a medical person, who knows what I missed).

Environmental insults can trigger a problem in an otherwise healthy person. In cancer, this may happen to one person and not the next if they have only one good copy of a particular gene or set of genes. Or the environmental toxin may be strong enough to mess up two good copies of a gene/genes.

I heard about a vaccine being given during the Gulf War that supposedly was later found to be questionable. Our unit didn't get it, for some reason. That vaccine may have combined with something else to cause GWS in someone.

Also, when members of the unit I was with were blowing up an airfield in Iraq, it turns out that there may have been some chemical or biological weapons that were blown up with other munitions. They should have been otherwise dealt with, but maybe someone was in a hurry to get home, or otherwise overlooked the problem.

I found out about this only because I was sent a letter a few years ago informing me that I'd been exposed while I was there at that site, and to report any symptoms. I remember, though, that the wind was blowing the other way when the airfield was blown up, and so I could watch instead of staying under cover. So I doubt I was exposed. Doesn't sound to me like anything could be done even if I was, though.

I'm just glad we didn't take the 60% casualties that were predicted for our unit when taking out Sadam's RGFC (they all surrendered). I'm very glad to be back in America, and whatever else I have is a bonus.

-- S. Kohl (kohl@hcpd.com), February 15, 2000.

"A key piece of the puzzle comes from Garth L. Nicolson, Ph.D., former chairman of the tumor biology department at the M.D. Anderson Cancer Center at the University of Texas in Houston. Dr. Nicolsons genetic analysis of the GWS microbe shows it to be the result of genetic engineering. It combines a gene from the HIV-1 virus and genetically altered anthrax genes with a mycoplasma (a tiny biological life form without a cell wall, normally harmless). The result is a new, highly infectious and deadly microbe not previously found in Nature. "

Chemtrails, coming to a family near you.

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), February 15, 2000.

As you can see from my address, I can speak with limited authority on the issue. My children's father was misdiagnosed for seven years: on the day of his retirement he was hospitalized at Bethesda for surgery and a month of radiation: the Navy asked him to sign the Agent Orange papers. He survived, but lost a baby to AO syndrome, the child of a subsequent marriage. Our children were beautiful and apparently normal except for slight respiratory malformations. When they entered puberty, they both had potentially AO related problems. The older child has bred: all children are healthy but the pregnancies were times of prayer. The younger child served this round in Bosnia,the Gulf and on a nuclear carrier as a nuke. Environmental insult? No comment. When he breeds, we'll see.

The role of government in chemical, biological and nuclear warfare is not to be overlooked or downplayed. It is of concern to each contributing member of the gene pool. You and I will not chose our children's lovers. We do have a choice as to the outcome of their unions.

My generation can't be faulted completely. We grew up with trust, and it's taken years to awaken us to our individual responsibility. The Net has opened a world of information to us. I have cause to be grateful, but there are others who are not so blessed. And with each grandchild, and as my children age, I remember the inheritance I've given them in innocence. Perhaps we can change or remediate some of this before their children reach adulthood.I hope so.

-- military woman (wife,mother,grandmother@home.com), February 15, 2000.

Joyce Riley, among others, has had a lot to say about "Gulf War Syndrome." See her lecture in Houston, Texas on January 15, 1996.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), February 16, 2000.

I know that soldiers were exposed to toxins, and to unknown parasites (medical research doesn't often study ailments solely found in poor areas). I know that many new vaccines were given and that there was some exposure to chemical/biological agents, at least when munitions dumps were exploded.

But Joyce Riley, in her article, makes some pretty strong claims, and some things in the article bother me. I don't have time to check out everything she says, but here is a sample of items giving me pause:

"What I am going to show you tonight is not opinion. It is not conjecture. It is proof."

I don't see that when I read this article. There are facts sprinkled liberally throughout, but there is also what looks to me like conjecture and opinion. If someone is careless in making a statement like that, what else are they careless with, that I don't have time to check out?

"No one has come to me and said, "you shouldn't be saying this". The reason being that they don't want to fight me in court. They know its true. So, what I am going to show you tonight is absolute evidence of the saddest story in American history."

So because no one has stopped her from speaking, that is proof that this presentation "is absolute evidence"? I'm just not convinced that the truth of her argument is the only possible reason she isn't being stopped. She just made an assertion there, but didn't support it at all. The burden is on her to convince me, which she started out by saying she would do, with facts.

"They told us that they contacted every one of us to see if we were sick. No one contacted us. I have not heard of any person being contacted."

Well, I and my friends who were there have all been contacted more than once. How did she miss that information, and what else did she miss?

"Other reasons for securing the area involved control of vital earth grid points in Southern Iraq. Interestingly, there are also large underground facilities in the Middle East, some of them of rather ancient, and alien, origin, which still today contain high-tech equipment."

These facilities are of ancient alien origin? Really? This sounds like another assertion to me, and of something quite unbelievable, with no support. Am I just supposed to believe her? She is the one who said this article doesn't contain opinion or conjecture, but fact, after all.

"By their own admission, some 697,000 active duty service members and some 180,000 national guard went to the Gulf. What they say now is that 489,000 of them have since separated from the military. Now, ask yourself why in an all-volunteer force, after a war, would 50% of the individuals involved get out of the military? It is not a statistic that even makes sense. One out every two have gotten out of the military since Desert Storm? I wonder why. Possibly because they had to, because they were sick and were forced out."

Well, half getting out doesn't seem too bad to me, considering everything. I only intended to stay in for four years in the first place, as did most others I knew. Some aren't qualified to stay in, either, and don't even have the option to reenlist--you either rise or get out.

Do people realize the kind of demands put on you and your family in the military? One year I kept track, even of weekend days-off. I spent only 60 days of the year in-garrison, mostly getting weekends off during that time, and the rest of the time I was in the field. (Our unit had a little heavier load than most, but still!)

That kind of field deployment is pretty hard on families. I don't remember a single guy I knew, whose wife gave birth, who could be with her until after the baby had been born. I probably knew these guys better than their wives and children, because I spent much more time with them. Why are 50% reenlisting, with the job market so good, that's the question!

Another reason for soldiers getting out could be that this massive deployment strained the "paperwork" people, and they didn't keep up with paying soldiers during the deployment--paying your soldiers and taking care of their families is pretty basic. I actually didn't get paid until I was a civilian again. I got a lump-sum check in the mail. I never got a W-2, and have never been able to file for that year. They still owed me $2000 dollars, but finally I decided I just had to get on with my life, and gave up on trying to get "someone" to do their job right, and quit giving me the run-around (this wasn't a conspiracy, it was laziness or incompetence within the system).

It seems they hired some civilians, eventually, to straighten out the mess. About two years later, I got a phone call from a civilian, asking me if I was aware that I had money coming to me, and wondering what to do with it, since the account I had on file for sure-pay was closed. I explained the situation, not believing anything would happen, but this guy did all the work, not making me chase my money down (which I wasn't going to do anymore anyway). I received a document in the mail, which I only had to sign, and then I got the money at my then-current account.

I know one person whose family lost their house during the Gulf crisis, because of not being paid. Another finally went home early, after a Congressman intervened at the behest of her family, to straighten out the financial mess caused by not being paid. This happened to many people, and I would think would decrease reenlistment, don't you?

"To date, the VA reports that more than 489,400 Gulf War veterans have received medical care in VA facilities. One out of every two. Ask yourself why. You don't go to the VA unless you have no where else to go."

A couple of my friends still use the VA--it's a veteran's benefit, right? They don't have Gulf War syndrome, that anyone can tell, and both are functioning normally. Do people use medical care for reasons other than GWS?

"You see here that by their own admission they say that 5,729 Gulf War veterans have died since the war. We know the figure is now between 10,000 to 12,000."

How do you know? How many died in accidents (I know of two guys from my unit who died in car wrecks)? Etc. I want proof (the break-down of the numbers, or a reference to her documentation for that), since she promised to give it, after all.

"Many of the 101st Airborne have called me and many of them are sick. The 82nd Airborne is sick."

The guys I was good friends with, and thus still have contact with, from the 82nd aren't sick. They're sometimes in other units ("jumping" is hard on you, physically, and after some years many start looking for a less punishing activity), or got out.

"In fact, according to Nation Magazine, 'studies have shown that 67% of babies born to Gulf War veterans are deformed.'"

None of my friends who've had kids had deformed kids, and neither did I. That's about 7 kids, so far. So what are the numbers and documentation for this claim? And did they check on us? Because I don't remember anyone asking...

-- S. Kohl (kohl@hcpd.com), February 16, 2000.