No ordinary candidate Whats behind John McCains astonishing gains? Its more the man than the message

John McCain's popularity is rising to the point that people who disagree with him politically are willing to vote for him anyway.

Richard Cohen WASHINGTON POST

MANCHESTER, N.H. Feb. 3  By Christmas Day 1970, John McCain had been a POW for three years. He had been sometimes near death, twice suicidal. That day, the camp commander came to see him and for some reason turned garrulous. He told him that Ho Chi Minh maintained a villa on a picturesque island in Ha Long Bay. Sixteen years later, McCain was back in Vietnam, this time as a U.S. senator. He asked about the villa. It was run-down, abandoned. McCain persisted. He wound up spending the night in Hos old bedroom. If you live enough, anything can happen, McCain said.

MCCAIN RELATED THIS story the day before the New Hampshire primary. As usual, he was ebullient, expecting to win but not, as it turned out, to trounce. He was being who he always is  a bubbling brook of jokes, observations, put-downs, anecdotes and flip remarks, such as his joking reference to Leonardo DiCaprio as an androgynous wimp. There goes the 13-year-old vote, he laughed. Cindy McCain was sitting nearby. She rose as the bus approached Keene for an outdoor rally. Because of war injuries and torture, McCain cannot lift his arms. His wife combed his hair. Then she applied some spray. McCain kept on talking, but about what I cannot say. My notes are nonexistent. I could only watch, transfixed, thinking, My God, doesnt he hide anything?

John McCain is not your ordinary presidential candidate. By now you know that. He came from literally nowhere to defeat George W. Bush in New Hampshire. Now he goes to South Carolina, Michigan and, ultimately, California, where the race will probably be decided. His aides say they are well-prepared. They exude optimism, but McCain has nowhere near Bushs money or organization. Still, he has come farther than most people, including himself on a given day, thought he could. I could spend the rest of this column writing about what bothers me about McCain. He went AWOL on the Confederate flag issue. He can be paper-thin on certain domestic policies. He is quick to turn complex policy questions into black-and-white moral issues. He is sometimes too hawkish on foreign policy concerns-Russias war in Chechnya, for instance, or North Koreas attempt to go nuclear. Patience is not his greatest virtue. Whats more, McCain is a deep conservative. He mouths bromides about faith and family that sound good but mean little. He opposes abortion and gun control. He says little about race relations or poverty. But his hero is Teddy Roosevelt, and that may say something. All his life, TR was as much process as man. He was always evolving. Still, heroism and character cannot by themselves put bread on the table. America is a groaning board  prosperous and at peace. This is Bill Clintons munificent legacy. America is also sour on politics, contemptuous of government and civic institutions. This, too, is Bill Clintons legacy. In this regard, it doesnt help any that Al Gore somehow forgot he once was troubled by abortion. If candor were grafted onto him, his body would reject it. So McCains fiery commitment to campaign reform and his vow always to be truthful may be what America wants. Its not that Bush is not genuine, but he seems callow. His concern for the working poor is commendable, but his proud anti-intellectualism is sophomoric. Mostly, though, he lacks a life. He is fortunes happy child. In the view of some, McCains personal story, while compelling, may grow stale. He lacks a second act, these people say. But my hunch  supported now by some exit polling  is that McCains message is not half as important as the man himself. This is why Republicans defied the partys leadership and voted for him, even though the GOP would lose oodles of soft money should McCain win the nomination. This is why McCain took the lions share of votes from self-identified moderates and liberals who voted in the GOP primary.

He won even with those who identified themselves as always or usually pro-choice. In fact, some of these people had considered voting for Bill Bradley before switching, often at the last minute, to McCain. On his bus the day before the election, McCain was rehearsing his message. To radio talk show hosts, it was getting politics out of the hands of the special interests. To his audience on the bus, it was, If you dont vote for McCain, dont start your car tomorrow. But the more I see him, the clearer it becomes that John McCains message is John McCain. That explains why people who disagree with him on almost everything seem prepared to vote for him anyway. He is proof of what he himself believes. If you live long enough, anything can happen.

Richard Cohen is a columnist for the Washington Post.

-- Vern (bacon17@ibm.net), February 11, 2000

Answers

He was shot down over Vietnam and held as a Prisoner of War for 5-1/2 years.

His then wife was a member of the National League of Families and she fought to make sure that John McCain came home.

John McCain claims that he was "broken" by the Vietnamese, yet he was accorded Soviet Surgeons to tend his wounds received in the shoot down of his aircraft, something not accorded other PoWs.

He was shot down 26 October 1967, and by 9 November 1967 he was giving interviews to foreign correspondents providing information on his prior command, cassualties and tactics in direct violation of the Code of Conduct.

He was one of the lucky PoWs that came home.

The Communist Vietnamese erected a bust of John McCain inside Vietnam. His defenders say that it is in tribute to the PAVN gunners that shot him down. When was the last time you visited a memorial to the American Military where there was a bust of the enemy?

In the May 14, 1973 edition of U.S. News & World Report, under the byline of "Inside Story, How The POW's Fought Back," the author details how John McCain told the guard to "Call the Officer" and then he told the officer, 'The Bug,' " a psychotic torturer, one of the worst fiends we had to deal with." "Take me to the hospital and I will give you military information." The author of this article? John McCain!

Yet in the interview that he gave on 9 Nov 1967 to VNA International, he claims that when he bailed out and landed in the lake, people grabbed him out of the lake and took him to the hospital.

He stayed in the Navy to retire at the rank of captain.

He repaid his wife's loyalty by divorcing her when she became an invalid, and she still remains loyal! We have to wonder if she and Mary Jo Buttafuoco are friends.

He went on to become a United States Congressmen and then a United States Senator.

He has consistently been an advocate of lenient treatment of Vietnam, even though their Prime Minister is responsible for the executions of at least three American PoWs during the war.

While a member of the Senate Select Committee on PoW/MIA Affairs (1991-1993) he consistently referred to PoW/MIA Family Members and PoW/MIA Activists as whiners and vultures and the lunatic fringe.

While a member of the Senate Select Committee on PoW/MIA Affairs, he reduced a family member, a sister of a missing serviceman, who had come to testify before the Committee to tears berating her for holding on to false hope and being a cog in the wheel of progress.

After this incident, also testifying before the Senate Select Committee was the man McCain claims was responsible for his own torture, McCains interrogator, "The Bug". The moment of confrontation came and McCain rose from his seat and walked from the podium onto the floor of the chamber to stand face to face with the man who was responsible for torturing Prisoners of War. McCain grabbed the man and embraced him.

Although the Senate Select Committee concluded that we left men behind, McCain crossed party lines to help lead the charge toward lifting the embargo and toward normalizing with Vietnam.

He disregarded testimony from professional analysts that stated that Vietnam was not cooperating and he often berated their analysis.

He ignored a letter drafted by one of the most brutally tortured PoWs, Capt. Eugene "Red" McDaniel and co-signed by FIFTY former PoWs which asked that we not lift the embargo and not normalize relations and McCain pushed for the lifting of the embargo and toward normalization.

Although only 8 remains were repatriated between the time the embargo was lifted to the time that Clinton signed the normalization order, McCain did all the talk shows using his status as a former PoW to push normalization down the throats of the American Public.

When the Missing Service Personnel Act of 1996 came on the Senate Floor for debate, Senator McCain called this bill "un-necessary" and "burdensome" even though the MSPA was sponsored by the then majority leader and the man who had considered asking John McCain to run with him, Sen. Bob Dole.

McCain has successfully mounted an attack, ammending the MSPA by removing criminal liability and several articles of the MSPA that are important to PoW/MIA Family Memebers.

McCain stated his reason for ammending the MSPA of 1996 is because ". . .General's do not have time to worry about Sergeants or Lieutenants."

He denied knowledge of his own ammendment when he was approached by family member Carol Hrdlicka, who ended up chasing him into the Senate Elevator screaming at him that he was a "Traitor!" He pushed passed several other family members, actually knocking one of them to the floor!

Although President Clinton signed into Law a bill that called for the Department of Defense to give to Congress a comprehensive review of all MIAs on a case-by-case analysis, and although the Department of Defense has been in flagrant disregard of that law, Senator McCain makes excuses for the bureaucrats instead of demanding answers on behalf of the family members.

Let's not forget that he was one of the Keating Five.

At the recent senate hearing on the confirmation of an US Envoy to Vietnam, he greeted a family member by referring to him as, "Scumbag!", while that family member was seated next to the female head of a national PoW/MIA family organization. Talk about conduct unbecoming. . .

He is willing to disregard how the majority of family members and virtually all of the veterans organizations feel about normalizing with Communist Vietnam in favor of those businesses that see Vietnam as a "viable market."

He is at it again, writing a "Dear Colleague" letter asking fellow Senator's not to co-sponsor Senate Bill 755 which would restore the provisions to the MSPA that he removed. At the time he wrote his Dear Colleague letter, there were only 12 co-sponsor's of S 755. So our question is why? Why did he feel compelled to write this letter?

He states that he speaks for the families and yet he disregards everything requested of him by the very families that he claims to represent.

He had the unmitigated gall to speak at PoW/MIA Recognition Day cermonies in Washington DC September 19, 1997 although both the National Alliance of Families and the Korea-Cold War Association requested that he be replaced with a speaker more sympathetic to the families.

National Alliance of Families

Korea-Cold War Association

John McCain is incapable of loyalty. He has demonstrated it time and again. He demonstrated it when he adandoned the woman who helped make sure he would be released.

He demonstrated it when he berated a family member and then hugged the man responsible for the torture of McCain and the brutal torture McCain's fellow Prisoners of War.

He demonstrated it by pushing the lifting of the embargo and normalization disregarding the fact that the Vietnamese have not been forthcoming with their war time records to help bring the answers as to what happened to the PoWs that were in their custody.

He demonstrated it when he decided that the desires of big business outwieghed the only recourse that Family members had--the only carrot to hold out to the Vietnamese.

He demonstrated it when he stifled the MSPA on the floor of the Senate even though it was sponsored by his own party and the man who may ask him to be part of the Cabinet.

He demonstrated it by introducing an ammendment to scuttle the effectiveness of this very same bill.

John McCain does not care if there is even one American left alive and being held against his/her will. McCain does the bidding of big business and big business comes before what he has to understand is a living hell.

Could it be that the Vietnamese have a bust of John McCain in Vietnam not as a tribute to the PAVN gunners that shot him down, but to a "progressive thinker"?

See what the Vietnamese termed as Progressive Thinkers while discussing the numbers of PoWs that they held in 1972. See the bio on this Republican's good Friend, Democrat John Kerry See the PoW/MIA Forum's Waffle Iron HALL OF SHAME

This is what McCain is all about! And people are willing to vote for this kind of fraud, traitor and Unhonorable record even if they don't like him? BUNK!!! Atleast not any America I know as a friend and has an IQ over 2.

McCain the real story is one that will make you ill... BRyan

-- SB Ryan G III (sbrg3@juno.com), February 11, 2000.

The word I hear repeatedly used to describe McCain is "arrogant." If being a POW doesn't teach a man some humility, there is just something fundamentally wrong with him.

There is NO way could I vote for such a man.

Anyway, as the saying goes, If God had meant for us to vote, He'd have given us candidates.

-- nope (don't@think.so), February 11, 2000.

Your right!

But God has given us the unique foundations to pick the people's choice...but because we have let the elite take over and control...we don't put the people's choice in office the elite do. It doesn't matter who you vote for now...the office has already been filled... the election is just a formality!

But if you do vote, and I do...I vote for not who I think will win, but who I think has God's approval on. BRyan

-- SB Ryan G III (sbrg3@juno.com), February 11, 2000.

McCain was "TWICE SUICIDAL"!!! And we're supposed to wanna elect this person to be in charge of our national nuclear capability?

Time for the famous old Wild Weasel motto here: "You Gotta Be Shitting Me! (YGBSM!)". I'm sorry there's just something there which indicates an instability which is not what the nation needs in the Presidency.

Aren't the last seven years clear enough proof of that?

WW

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), February 11, 2000.

SB Ryan you should be ashamed of yourself!!!!!any man who went to war for his country is a war hero and for you to talk and say such vile things about this man is utterly disgusting.

I want to vomit!

Some of us are willing and want to put Vietnam BEHIND us. Who better to lead the way toward healing than a former POW (Bill Clinton and Jane Fonda?)?

John McCain offered his LIFE for this country.

I guess your guy was sitting in a frat house during the war. For you to sit there with your rose colored glasses and Monday morning quarter-backing and second guess this MANS war record is a shame and total disgrace.

If we were face to face I would beat your ass!

If your not going to vote for the guy fine- thats what voting is all about make your decision but its yours don't spread lies and inuindo about a war hero ( my definition anyone who went to war). Be thankful this man , and so many others did what they did. Have respect.

So you will know where I'm coming from I was in the Marine Corp from Beirut till just after the Gulf war.

My brother is currently aboad the Stenis in Hong Kong.

My Father died June 17 1966 in Vietnam, after which my mother dumped my brother and I off at my grandparents and never came back.

My Grand-father served as a flame thrower in WWII.

Etc.etc... I could go on and on all the way back till the revolutiobn.

You see people like me go way back militarily and we don't take kindly to saying anything bad about someone who served to defend this country-----AMERICA!

-- Johnny (jljtm@bellsouth.net), February 11, 2000.

Surviving physical torture and hardship means he's a survivor. That does not necessarily make him a worthy presidential candidate.

Yes, he has come out of nowhere. Have you considered that the establishment media may have had something to do with that? And that the sheeple blindly go for whomever the media is promoting at the moment.

There's not a "brown bomb in the commode's" difference between Gore, Bradley, and McCain. They are all more liberal than Dubya. But the fact that sonny Bush is purportedly more conservative doesn't mean he's worth anything, either. Don't you people get it? They are all fascists (look up definition) of one stripe or another.

The fact that people continue to vote for these a*holes means THERE IS NO HOPE that this Republic will survive. You turkeys willingly vote yourselves into slavery.

-- A (A@AisA.com), February 11, 2000.

You might want to check out:

http://sightings.com/politics6/illegal.htm

while it's still there. And here's another article that has been floating around:

BEWARE of McCain By Weldon Clark

McCain breathed new life into the Juvenile Justice Bill's anti- gun amendments, after it had been KILLED. McCain and 4 other moderate Republicans said they would vote for the Lautenberg gun show ban bill unless the Republican Leadership brought up a bill. They did and it passed the Senate.

McCain told Neal Knox and the present Second Vice President of NRA that he would never forget what NRA had done in the 1994 election. He then cosponsored the McCain Feingold Campaign Finance bill. This bill would prevent all independent groups such as NRA, Christian Coalition, Right to Life and other conservative groups from doing effective election campaigns. They could not report the voting records of candidates 60 days prior to the election. ALL elections would be tilted toward anti-gun liberals.

The ratings of the Arizona Rifle & Pistol Association are

Bauer, Keys and Forbes all A Bush a B McCain a C minus.

McCain is the most liberal of the candidates and a US Senator who lives and breathes in Washington DC.

That's just what I could dig up quickly. It would appear that if McCain is any kind of candidate, he may well be a "Manchurian Candidate."

"Choose wisely, Grasshopper."

-- Lane Dexter (madison_6@hotmail.com), February 11, 2000.

WW

The man spent what 18 months? in solitary confinement suffering beyond our belief! and you want to elect some coward who sat in a frat house or took pictures for the stars and bars?

Why do you always dump on the guy????????

-- Johnny (jljtm@bellsouth.net), February 11, 2000.

Johnny,

Read this again......just because the guy got captured does not make him presidential timber!!!

And, oh yes, in Korea I learned how to dive head first into a rice paddy full of human shit in order to keep from getting shot, so get off your flag raising. Been there, done that, and have a drawer full of T-shirts.

Vote for the one who is best qualified to lead the nation. McCain has a lot of questions to answer. Until he's answered them, he's not entitled to my vote. Until then, he's aptly labeled the Manchurian Candidate.

-- (4@5.6), February 11, 2000.

Johnny -- You don't get it -- just because McCain sat in a POW camp DOES NOT necessarily make him Presidential material. Get it? And Bush sitting in a frat house with a keg or a bong does not necessarily make him NOT Presidential material. The fact is, BOTH are not Presidential material -- as they have NO F*ING CONCEPT of what this country's founding (the Declaration of Independence, arguably the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights) was all about.

Put down your fricking flag. You might recognize then that your grandfather, father, you, your cousins, etc., all made a mistake in serving your country. Because, YOU ALL DID NOT SERVE YOUR COUNTRY -- YOU SERVED YOUR RULERS!!

-- A (A@AisA.com), February 11, 2000.

Johnny, let's hear you REFUTE some of those charges, instead of just venting. Go on, we'll wait.

Punching someone's face in to prove your point might be effective in the back of a bar, but out here among civilians it accomplishes nothing at all.

-- but your loyalty (is@kinda.charming), February 11, 2000.

John McCain has plenty to answer for, not just promote his POW hero propaganda to a gullible press and public. He survived, but didn't lift a finger to help anybody else get home. In fact, he went out of his way not to and prevented many POW families from learning the truth! Maybe he knows they are all dead because of the information he gave to the enemy--but he's not about to admit it. Honesty is NOT his middle name.

Gee, if his politics are RED and his character is YELLOW, does it make his color ORANGE??? When he leaves this earth one day, I hope he stands before all those he had a hand in killing and judges himself accordingly.

-- Marie (pray4peace@compuserve.com), February 11, 2000.

You people need to QUICKLY understand I'm not pro McCain I'm pro military. Anybody who served--gets my first look, even Jesse Ventura.

I come from Kentucky the number one producer of burley tobacco in the nation. We are currently looking at a 65% reduction in the quota (amount a farmer is allowed to grow) over a three year period. Cut your own salary 65% over the next three years and see how that feels.

McCain is anything but pro-tobacco.

He still deserves our RESPECT and reverence simply becaus he was a war hero!

456----He's answered my most important ??? he served his country well. Just because he lived through it these yahoos want to fault him for it!

A--- when we look at the stars and stripes we obviously see different flags and symbols. You are entitiled to your opion but I won't address it.

but your loyalty-

You want me to really piss you off?

I think that unless you served in the military you shouldn't be allowed to run for national office!

-- Johnny (jljtm@bellsouth.net), February 11, 2000.

I heard that McCain cannot lift his hands above his head due to wartime injuries. Does this mean he cannot salute the American flag?

If a nasty dude attempted to fight him, then does this mean McCain cannot execute judo and other martial arts? Can he use his feet to drop an opponent?

I want an American leader who can raise his hands high with power!

-- dinosaur (dinosaur@williams-net.com), February 11, 2000.

Guys, guys, ladies!!

Get real!!! McCain is a two-legged Trojan Horse!

-- bz (beezee@statesville.net), February 11, 2000.

"...burley tobacco ... we are currently looking at a 65% reduction in the quota (amount a farmer is allowed to grow) over a three year period. Cut your own salary 65% over the next three years and see how that feels."

Tobacco? We've known about the health problems for.... well, at least 40 years or so. It's hardly a secret at this point. Everyone with a lick of sense has long since moved on to other crops. Those who haven't... Well, what do you suppose ever became of the once- booming-and-lucrative American whaling industry...?

-- we're changing (subjects@a.bit), February 11, 2000.

"Everyone with a lick of sense has long since moved on to other crops. Those who haven't..."

You've definetly never given any thought to the topography of Kentucky. Most farms in my state are small-less than 100 acres. Of that roughly 25% is woods 40% is too sttep to farm or rolling and maybe 30 % is farmable(this is at the high end).

So you are faced with maybe up to 30 acres to farm.You've got to allow the souil to rest part of the time to save it so your productuion is cut even still.

Maybe if you are lucky and can count on support you can farm 20 acres.

What do you grow? Tomatoes and peppers at $2000.00 thats the most they fetch before labor intensive expenses.

Or Tobacco a crop which your family has grown for generations. And fetches the price of $4000.00 per acre?

You see Tobacco has always been a tool of economic survival for every county in Kentucky except for Pike(too steep to farm).

Tobacco is a billion dollar industry here.

You've decide to cut our economic lifeblood by 65% over the next three years.But we still send our children to fight your wars and tell them military service is honorable and we still tell them America is the greatest nation on earth and we still teach them about God.

Yes tobacco kills and its going to kill entire regions of the US but thats not what this thread is about and I've said enough.

-- Johnny (jljtm@bellsouth.net), February 11, 2000.

-- what a pic (hope@this.works), February 11, 2000.

I am married to a Vietnam Veteran. He came home and got spit on. Does HE trust McCain? No. My husband served TWO terms in Vietnam and stayed in service to our country more than 20 years, longer than McCain ever did. And somehow, McCain is the hero. Sheesh. What about the POWs that were left? What do we call them, other than missing?

I agree that a future Commander-in-Chief should have a military background, so he or she would not blithely send young people off to war without a darn good reason, i.e. protection of our country, mainly. McCain has shown himself disloyal in other areas of his life, so I wonder about his loyalty to America. He's another Clinton--loyal only to himself. Also he is well-known for his hotheaded temper, and that scares me more than anything, since if he was President, he'd be the one with his finger on the nukes.

-- Marie (pray4peace@compuserve.com), February 11, 2000.

McCain is where he is because the media Elites have annointed him to be the crown-bearer for what the Media wants most in life.....power.

You see, McCain is the proponent of so-called Campaign-Finance reform, which when you read the implications of such an implementation, limits free political speech and gives the Media the sole power to determine who will be king.

For those of you who think that money alone can buy political office, especially the Presidency....just look at Steve Forbes and even George W. as of late.

No my friends, Propaganda, grooming, brainwashing and Media Spin are the new tools of those that desire power. Clinton has used them well in his political career. Now the Media have become self-aware of the power that they themselves can wield. They alone can paint and groom a candidate for kingship, protection and prosperity...and they can also destroy, belittle and shape opinion among the vast majority of us dimwits that get brainwashed each night by the boob-tube news.

McCain's trouncing in NH, is the result of DEMOCRATS registering as INDEPENDANTS or REPUBLICANS in the primary to select the candidate they want Gore to face in the General Election. Each state that has OPEN PRIMARIES is experiencing this new phenomenon, and the media propagates it.

This is why McCain has done so well. Among staunch Republicans and Conservatives McCain scores low marks. But the Democrats and the Media just love McCain to death.

The question is: Why? Is it because they truly want McCain for President?

Is it because they think Gore can more easily defeat McCain than Bush?

Or do you think that the Democrats and the Gore (Clinton) Campaign have enough dirt on McCain during his Tenure in the Senate to ensure a Gore Victory?

900 FBI Files in the hands of the Clinton/Gore Administration would sure be a boost to any dirt-digging needed on McCain.

Dontcha think?

Politics folks...it's dirty, nasty, and this time....it's for keeps.

-- Just Sharing (nothatitm@tt.ers), February 11, 2000.

Johnny, I'm sorry you think just because you have served in the military it qualifies you for the office of the president...does this go for the brand new gay breed and the coward and the drug smuggler and the draftee...? Being a POW does not make you a war hero...it states that you were caught alive...I know...I was a POW...but I certainly don't qual;ify as a presidential candidate! Johnny, you say if we were face to face you'd beat me up!

you need to cool off...you don't sound like an American ...remember you said a while ago that I deserved honor because I served in the military and the Vietnam War... are you a government agent come to this forum to disrupt or a man of honor upset because your hero is a fraud and traitor?

If you are an honorable person...come here to help...then help and stop making threats... if you're one of Clinton's men...go away! BRyan

-- SB Ryan G III (sbrg3@juno.com), February 12, 2000.

Johnny is CLUELESS...nuff said.

Just Sharing, you are dead on. All media outlets are commercially owned. Except for this one? hehe.

Ryan, just exactly which candidate have you voted for who was approved by God? And, puhleeze don't tell me RR.

Has anyone on this thread ever read 1984? If so, maybe we could start a new thread on the subject.

-- canthappen (n@ysayer.com), February 12, 2000.

canthappen, God certainly can't be put into a box... basically when I say approval...I am prompted to vote for the man who is going to be AGAINST abortion or any kind, AGAINST homosexuality of any kind, AGAINST the UN in whole and in part, AGAINST removing the biblical standards ... someone who is ethical, moral, and honest! A man who rules his family well and has his family's respect... a man who married to one woman and that wife submits to him as he submits to Christ. So far I have looked at many men who could qualify... the harder I look...the less I find a man to meet these qualifications... presently I seek after not a winnable candidate but a canidate who meets the biblical requirements which will attain my vote...that is Howard Philips, of the Constitution Party...formerly called the Tax Payers Party. I am sorry if you think God has called down and told me who to vote for...No...I wish HE would...it would make it simple...but I had to let God speak to me through HIS Word the Bible and through my heart. BRyan

-- SB Ryan G III (sbrg3@juno.com), February 12, 2000.

Just Sharing: Well said!

Johnny: So a qualification for holding political office is that one was stupid enough to allow himself to be cannon fodder? BTW, I was once that stupid, but I got smart, later. How about you? Because of the draft, I served two years active duty. If I knew then what I know now, I would have gone to Canada.

-- A (A@AisA.com), February 12, 2000.

Johnny: I'm talking about the American flag, the one supposedly a symbol of the Constitution which prohibits involunatary servitude. Last I heard, a military draft is involuntary servitude. The Constitution doesn't say anything about exceptions to not haveing involuntary servitude because our rulers have connived to get us into wars.

The traitor, A. Lincoln, was responsible for a milirary draft for the Civil War. The Civil War ("War Between the States" as you rebs call it) established the supremacy, by force, of the Federal Government over the State governments instead of the other way around.

This establishment of the U.S. Federal Government as supreme led to creation of all sorts of mischief, and led to WWI (the Great War). If "we" (the U.S. government) had not butted in, Europe would have settled down and Nazi Germany would never have arisen to contribute to the continuation of the Great War (called WWII).

What flag are you saluting? The Federal Fascist flag or the flag of freedom? (BTW, I'm a Yankee who realizes the South was right!)

-- A (A@AisA.com), February 12, 2000.

BRyan, I ain't throwin' stones at ya. At least I don't mean to. But, it appears that you have bought into the 'Churchianity' idea that we can save this 'country' when it was doomed from the start. Howard Who? Give me a break!

And puhleeze don't tell me you are a D. James Kennedy fan.......

Your righteous and patriotic mentality focuses on the verses of the Bible that suit you and you ignore the rest. Hitler had the majority of religious and patriotic citizens on his side. And I am sure most of them could quote some Bible verses.

So, friend, the country can't be fixed. If you really believe ALL of His Word give it up. Look at the 'paradigm' shift. America was a blip in history. We happen to be caught in it. But, I believe you see it dying as I do. It has to, and will, and electing so and so won't change it.

Just hunker down, buddy. And stay out of politics.

-- canthappen (n@ysayer.com), February 12, 2000.

A, you think outside the square. Be careful. Hehe. Loved your post, though we may miles apart on other stuff. I knew another yankee dude who agreed with you.

DON'T WORRY ABOUT MCCAIN....HE IS NOT GOOD LOOKING ENOUGH TO BE THE ANTICHRIST!!!

But, even though I didn't think Klinton was good lookin' either, I still thought he had a great shot at it......and maybe still does.....no prophet here, hehe.

-- canthappen (n@ysayer.com), February 12, 2000.

Canhappen,

RE: your post "So, friend, the country can't be fixed. If you really believe ALL of His Word give it up. Look at the 'paradigm' shift. America was a blip in history. We happen to be caught in it. But, I believe you see it dying as I do. It has to, and will, and electing so and so won't change it."

Will you expand on your thoughts here. Do you believe the "Fed gov." can not be fixed or do you think "freedom" as a lifestyle goal is gone for good in human history. Are you saying if we return to states rights then we can remain free or even regain our former freedoms??

I for one believe totally in states rights and though I in no way condone slavery (but it wasn't "all" about slavery) wish my grandparents had won instead of the ones who did for the sake of states rights. I wish they could have abolished slavery without abolishing our freedom at the same time.

Maybe to maintain the goal of freedom, we need to SET our goal for states rights. We need to elect very weak canidates for Fed. office and keep the strong ones at home for the state gov. and in effect weaken the Fed. gov. while cause the states to grow strong. Just thinking out loud here.

obo

-- Obo (susanwater@excite.com), February 12, 2000.

Johnny I'm a farmer too. And I know how cutbacks and consistently low prices can devastate your lifes work. But I lost both parents to lung cancer and my wife lost her mom and stepdad to it also so I have very little sympathy for a crop that brings so much heartbreak and suffering to a close family. No one forced them to smoke and I can remember when warnings came out about smoking. I was just a kid and it scared me to death that I might loose my parents so I hid them. We lived 40 miles from the nearest store so boy was that a mistake. I know this is off the main McCain topic but I was disturbed by your ongoing support for tobacco.

-- John Thomas (cjseed@webtv.net), February 12, 2000.

By my tobacco statment I was merely pointiing out there are numerous other reasons not to vote or support McCain-his anti-tobacco stand is one reason I have trouble with him. I haven't grown tobacco in 15 years and recently purchased my farm and have an allotment which I will rent out this year.

There are many reasons not to vote for McCain NOt his military record.

There is a whole generation of people who don't find honor in serving in the military. They don't know the value of freedom and they are raising their children this way with these beliefs. It is no wonder why the armed services are having a recruitment problem.

No I didn't say military service is a qualifaction for presidency, I said it should be a requirement for it.

-- Johnny (jljtm@bellsouth.net), February 12, 2000.

Canhappen, I didn't tell you who to vote for...that would be unAmerican...I just told you what not to vote for if you are American...McCain! I believe the system will not be fixed either...We are moving into a new era the is spoke of in the Bible...One World Government... this does mean the end of Freedom!

As far as voting ...I will sleep better at night knowing I didn't vote for the elite's lacky...but whom I felt was the people's representative according to which this country's foundations derive from... My voting for Howard Philips has nothing to do with who is going to be president...that is already decided by the elite...my vote is a personal decision to do what is right in the sight of the LORD...

Oh yeh...one more thing...Yes, I do believe James Kennedy, Charles Stanley, Billy Graham, Raul Riese, Greg Lori, Chuck Swindol, are all great teachers... ...certain they know the truth...unlike all of the blab and grab it crew like hinn, hagan, copeland, tilton, lee, capps, peale, and the rest of the money grabbin tv evangelistic freeks.

BRyan

-- SB Ryan G III (sbrg3@juno.com), February 12, 2000.

Vern? VERN?! It's a miracle. Jim Varney is dead but Vern lives!

-- (ohno@mr.bill), February 13, 2000.