France to sue America and Britain over ECHELON : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

French to sue US and Britain over network of spies


THE British and US Governments are to be sued in France after claims that they have spied on French companies, diplomats and Cabinet ministers. Lawyers are planning a class action after confirmation last week that a global anglophone spy network exists. Codenamed P-415 Echelon, the world's most powerful electronic spy system was revealed in declassified US National Security Agency documents published on the Internet, and is capable of intercepting telephone conversations, faxes and e-mails.

The system was established in the 1980s by the UKUSA alliance, which unites the British, American, Australian, New Zealand and Canadian secret services. In Europe, its listening devices are at Menwith Hill defence base in Yorkshire. French MPs claim to have evidence that the European Airbus consortium lost a Fr35 billion (#3.5 billion) contract in 1995 after its offer was overheard and passed to Boeing. Georges Sarre, a left-wing MP, said: "The participation of the United Kingdom in spying on its European partners for and with the US raises serious and legitimate concerns in that it creates a particularly acute conflict of interest within the European Union."

The European Parliament's Civil Liberties Committee will study a report on the Echelon network on February 23. The debate is certain to fuel criticism of Britain's role.

Until this month, the network was an official secret recognised by none of the members of the UKUSA alliance. But the documents published by the George Washington University prove its existence and its capacity to intercept civilian satellite communications.

Jean-Pierre Millet, a Parisian lawyer, said that Echelon tracked every mobile and satellite call, but only decoded those involving a key figure. "You can bet that every time a French government minister makes a mobile phone call, it is recorded," he said.

M Millet said that Echelon's system leaves it open to legal challenge under French privacy laws. "The simple fact that an attempt has been made to intercept a communication is against the law in France, however the information is exploited." Yesterday he said that he would bring an action on behalf of French civil liberty groups.

-- Johnny (, February 10, 2000


Yes! -- One evil empire down (USSR). One more to go (USA).

Read "The Sovereign Individual" by James Dale Davidson and Sir (Lord) William Rees-Mogg, for a scenario of the breakup of the huge nation states (maybe even including France :o) ) Comments/reviews of the book are on (use their search engine for the title).

AND, check out for info. Some free, some you got to pay for. You can at least sign up for free for the weekly e-mailed "A-Letter".

-- A (, February 10, 2000.

Also read "The Sovereign" (i.e 'you')

send an email to your friends - it's free. Keep it that way, and give them a chance to read it, alright? 1, 2, 3. Easy huh?

-- steve (WhyCares@nymore.Right?com), February 12, 2000.

I have found the majority of the "sovereign" groups, etc. to be "Patriots for Profits". They know your rights have taken way; they know you have been screwed blue. Now they are going to "sell you your 'inalienable rights' back. Cute system, huh?

Most of the information they are selling you is readily availble at book stores, online (use your search engine). Many of these groups are as much, if not worse, than the vultures who ripped your rights off in the first place. Both do it by mis-directing your attention and by with holding information from you.

It is your right to be informed. It is your right to have free access to information which concerns YOUR rights. That's my 2 cents on all this.

If you want to move your money offshore to get outside the jurisdiction of a corrupted government...simple. Either search "off shore banking" on the internet and read the articles - and/or goto your local book store and look through their selection on "off shore banking". There is no mystery to it, as these people would have you believe. Set up your (legitimate) operation outside the jurisdiction of of US. Period. Find the reputable banks and companies which provide these services. Period.

However, if you knew your wouldn't have to go to that much trouble, would you?

Have fun and watch-out for "Patriots For Profit" They are vultures of another kind.


-- steve (WhoCares@nymore.Right?com), February 12, 2000.

Well, a few more comments...

"Until this month, the network was an official secret recognised by none of the members of the UKUSA alliance. But the documents published by the George Washington University prove its existence and its capacity to intercept civilian satellite communications."

"...until this month?" Doubtful.

Read: "The Puzzle Palace" (released 1982 - cough) - Inside the National Security Agency, America's most secret Intelligence Organization" by James Bamford.

You will see that this 'activity' has been going on since WWII. Over time and with experience they get better at their job as technology improves. For example: see recent breakthrough in voice recognition capability at IBM - a 10-fold order of magnitude increase in discrimination and recognition capability. ADD this to the existing SETI multi-billion channel per second frequency analyzer/recorder capability AND your "caller ID" system (already installed) AND the ATT 'whistle blower' who came forward, who refused to work on a project installing "switches" designed to route phone calls into voice recognition computers...and you see the job is not as 'difficult' as it might seem. Add a little bit of Zy-Index and relational database...and you are home. Job done.)

Oh, by the way, Eschelon is a TOTAL violation of your 4th Ammendment Rights to Privacy. Remember? But there are more important matters to attend to...right?

Now, there are many reasons, both good and bad, for doing all this. But what People don't understand about "Eschelon" type operations (i.e. the monitoring and 'vacuuming' of information world wide) is that it is done for "One Prime Reason". Yes, there is such a thing: if what happened in Roswell, New Mexico 1947 were to happen *anywhere else* in the world >> and NOT be immediately contained << ...the 'game' would be over.

Check your cronology and you will see that "The National Security Act" was created very shortly after the incident at Roswell. And just one of the things the The National Security Act did was to create the CIA. The whole 'business of intelligence' took on a new meaning: it now had global implications. It was not just enough to "watch out for the USA" - it had to be worldwide, externally AND internally - or the whole system could be jeapordized.

Find out about "Operation Blue Fly" - global response team for recovery of "vehicles of unknown origin" AND their training "to contain cells of information" from leaking beyond the boundaries of the local 'event'. This has been done *MANY* times; they *have* done a marvelous job...truly.

The problem is, our planet is dying and we need some help. And we better hope the Galaxy is 'not empty'...or we are headed towards a rather dark and dismal future if left to our own devices, Planet of the Apes and all.

THAT is The Prime Mover (and justification) above all others.

And..BUT...understand: 'The Reason' for why all faxes, phone conversations, teletypes, micro-wave, CB, radio and television are intercepted and monitored 24hrs a day, 7 days a week is because of:

"Vanessa? (u sweet thing)...please open Door #3 for the Audience:"

"The Prime Reason"

Contrary to popular Earth Myth - the Galaxy is TEEMING with Life (except 'we are the Natives' that don't know it...yet) But we are slowly getting there.

For the General Public to realize the above - would be the beginning of The End of the Game of Control of Little Tyrants" - on this little ant-farm sandbox we call "Earth" floating on the outer edge of one arm, of one puny galaxy, in a Sea of Galaxies.

And we are 'the ONLY' ones? Right? How convenient...and comforting.

Gerald Ford: "Don't confuse People's lack of caring...for lack of being informed."

Have fun exploring The PlayGround. Maybe try to figure out a way that will make it work..for Everybody.

In other words, "Solve it."


-- steve (WhoCares@nymore.Right?com), February 12, 2000.

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