I see that Y2K Pro is at it again today, pointing his crap gun at various threads on this forum. Pro says that this forum is made up of a bunch of "hate mongers" that want to see their "neighbors die," and would even enjoy killing them. He goes to the archive of over 300,000 messages, and finds a handful of "examples" and waves this around, saying that it "represents" TB2000, and therefore, it represents the "people" of TB2000.

Sorry, but I've had a quite different experience with the people here. Even with some of the people used in the "examples" by Y2K Pro. Many of these "examples" are taken way out of context. And sometimes, Y2K Pro just doesn't get it:

"I hope ALL democrats die in Y2K.

-- goldbug (goldbug@mint.com), December 07, 1999."

Now, as a Libertarian, I find this to be a pretty funny statement, and would like to add (get ready Pro, make sure you get this, so you can start quoting me in your daily hate message):

"I hope ALL REPUBLICANS die in Y2K also."

Y2K Pro extrapolates this into, since goldbug is a republican, or since my neighbor is a republican, then I want to see them dead. You really should seek help Y2K Pro.

I've got a few examples of my own from the archive. Let's start with the FEW HUNDRED in the following two threads from last month. This is my personal experience with the "people of TB2000" but it is a good "example" of what I have seen in my year here.

'Sysman' was injured in a car accident

Hi gang, I'm BAAAAACK!

So come on Y2K Pro, if you want to continue to fight this stupid war, you better go get some more ammunition. Go on back to the archive, and come back when you have enough "hate" messages to match the few hundred examples that I just gave you.

Or just give it up already. <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), February 08, 2000

Answers

Sysman, You got that right! But try to tell a chronic crank that life isn't so bad...

-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), February 08, 2000.

Sysman:

Most of what Y2K posts is cut and paste stuff. It is correct but represents a minority opinion. It's like going into S. Carolina and finding 10 people who still support holding slaves and declaring that SC supports slavery. Real nonsense. I notice that he has been picking on you. Who cares? I don't. No one else here cares. Ignore it and it leaves.

Best wishes,,,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), February 08, 2000.

Well said, well said.

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), February 08, 2000.

Well, i still think Steve Baxter said it best:

"i, Troll"

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002OT4

Read Steve Baxter's opening statement ...it's the isomorphic equivalent of "a wooden grape stake - through the Heart of a Vampire." (forget the rest of the thread; it's old news)

Now, the only sane question is:

"How many nails?"...to keep the lid 'shut'...?

[eeerrr...creak!]

DOWN SATAN...I say, DOWN!!!

(thump!) bang...bang...bang...bang!! "Got More Nails?"

-- steve (WhoCares@nymore.Right?com), February 08, 2000.

Not to defend the offensive, but I know from personal experience it is hard to come up with ammo when you are busy seeking a place in the world, beset by monkey mind (constantly chattering nonsense in your head) and bedeviled by forces you can neither control nor understand.

So one takes refuge in the simple principles that govern the unenlightened, "I hurt, therefore I lash out."

Suffering the compassion disease I can only view the offensive with pity. And sadness.

-- pliney the younger (pliney@puget.sound.blinking.in.the.sun), February 08, 2000.

Well said and LOL Sysman. Pro was, is and apparently always will be nothing more than a slightly annoying moron.

-- (@ .), February 08, 2000.

Pliney Blinking-In-The-Sun -

"You Da MAN!!"

Well said, eloquent..and to "the Point" (smile)

Naaaah...that doesn't need resharpening. Use it!

Here, try my sledge....BANG!!

-- steve (WjuCares@nymore.Right?com), February 08, 2000.

Pliney, great wisdom well stated.

-- Lurkess (Lurkess@Lurking.XNet), February 08, 2000.

Pliney, you cool guy! (Hmmm, let's see, he's a Taoist? A Gurdjieffian? A...classical Latinist!)

-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), February 08, 2000.

Y2kPro, give it a break, I rememember when you posted good information back in Nov or maybe Dec 1998, I know you have good information but your on a hate trip. Most people forgive and forget and get on with their lives. Yes I go back that far,

-- bill (sticky@2side.tape), February 08, 2000.

I hope you're not deleted Pro, but it doesn't matter. We know what you're all about. But just in case, let me quote you:

"so many of you are silent when the truly evil speak"

Like who Y2K Pro? Show me who you are talking about. People like INVAR? Isn't INVAR one of your favorite targets?

"To be honest, the first one that is able to rend the mainstream press mute, would be one of the greatest American Heroes since Washington.

INVAR (gundark@sw.net), November 07, 1999."

Go ahead Pro, go dig-up a dozen "nasty things" that INVAR said. Again, it doesn't matter. Those of us that know INVAR know the truth about him. He loves his country. He is sadened by it's current state, and to be honest, so am I. INVAR's only problem is that he is too outspoken, and perhaps a little too militant for some. But that is his right in this country.

I'm sure that when you do come back with "INVAR said this, and INVAR said that" you will forget the hundreds of other things that he said here, about his country, and freedom, and rights, and government abuse, and war. But that doesn't matter, does it? All that matters is that he told you to go "drop dead" one day, and you've had a hard-on for him ever since. Isn't that what this is really about, Y2K Pro? The people here that have told you to go F yourself?

"I have seen hundreds of occasions where extremist Doomers have said the most foul things"

Like I said Pro, put up, or shut up. Your now famous ten lines have worn out their welcome here. Show me Pro. Show me these hundreds of occasions.

"you seem quite comfortable in the censorship of opposing viewpoints here"

Yes, I would be uncomfortable if that were the case, but it simply isn't true. Flint, Hoff, Decker, they never had problems here, and they have a vast history on this forum. So do you Pro, and you didn't have any problems here, until you went too far. And don't waste your time with it wasn't me, or this and that happened before, or any other BS, because it just doesn't matter any more too me.

Once again Y2K Pro, you have gone too far. You feel that it is your duty, to jump into every thread, especially those started by newbies, and post your "Don't come here - these people are evil" message. That just isn't right Pro, and it isn't true. You know it, and I know it.

Even as recently as a few days ago Pro, I stuck up for you. I'm sorry to say that I can not continue to do so. This crap is just another brand of SPAM. <:(=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), February 08, 2000.

One of these days Y2k pro is gonna have an original thought. Too funny. He's transfixed by the postings of a small minority. Sounds like pro needs to get a life.

-- haha (haha@haha.com), February 08, 2000.

and y2k pro justifies it's actions by spewing so much hate, spam, disruption and chaos rather than truth

you're blinded by your hatred y2k pro

get a life

-- (pronot@filled.with.light), February 08, 2000.

I'm talking about people who actively wished for TEOTWAWKI, death to pollies, death to the herd, etc. I was and am still outraged at the conspiracy of silence from the rest of you.

Pro, some opinions are so outrageous as to render argument superfluous. Do you really think it needs to be stated that wishing death on others is inappropriate?

I may be a doomer, but I am more than willing, where my expertise permits, to explain why an incident might not be Y2K related, and I have done so on many occasions. I say this in anticipation of any attempt to characterize my response as stereotyped.

-- David L (bumpkin@dnet.net), February 08, 2000.

Flint, Hoff, Decker, they never had problems here, and they have a vast history on this forum.

Sysman, I am just curious what you mean by no problems. Are you forgetting the accusations and insults leveled at these three individuals. From my time lurking here on this forum, they were practically pointed to as the personification of evil, or even worse, government shills.

-- Steve (sron123@aol.com), February 08, 2000.

I really don't see much difference between a troll post and a troll- baiting post. Both are uninstructive. Both are disruptive.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), February 09, 2000.

So do you Pro, and you didn't have any problems here, until you went too far.

Actually, Pro's actions didn't change, the sysops simply "had it" with him and a few others, and instituted the global delete policy. It's certainly their call on who they choose to delete, but it should be pointed out that his posts were no different than they had ever been. They were simply fed up with him.

And don't waste your time with it wasn't me, or this and that happened before, or any other BS, because it just doesn't matter any more too me.

The truth doesn't matter any more to you? How unfortunate. No, of course we shouldn't waste your time with the truth. After all, you have it all figured out.

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), February 09, 2000.

Y2kPro:

You said:

"I have seen hundreds of occasions where extremist Doomers have said the most foul things, only to be met with silence from their less extreme compatriots. I'm not talking about bad language or chemtrail posts either, I'm talking about people who actively wished for TEOTWAWKI, death to pollies, death to the herd, etc. I was and am still outraged at the conspiracy of silence from the rest of you. As if being a Doomer was some sort of religion, that precluded self- criticism. Your credo seems ro be: "My enemies enemy is my friend".

I am well aware that there are some very decent people on this forum. I just wish they would show some backbone, and criticize those of the Tinfoil religion when it is warranted."

I'm a pretty mild-mannered person myself, Pro, but there are folks I know IRL who have some pretty strange ideas [to me] on some topics. It's my CHOICE not to engage in discussions of religion and politics because these two topics bore to the core of some folks. We may very well have other things in common or other topics in which we can even debate on a rational level, but religion and/or politics aren't included. Somewhere along the time continuum Y2k developed into a topic that bore to the core of some folks. They TRULY BELIEVED both that death would come to millions due to Y2k failures, and TRULY BELIEVED that their best hedge would be to kill before being killed.

Personally, I see this as the impetus for folks dismissing anyone who posted positive Y2k news. We were accused of being personally responsible for deaths by discouraging folks to prepare for what they KNEW would happen. We never did discourage folks from preparing for what COULD occur, but merely posting positive Y2k news was seen as downplaying the severity of the situation that some KNEW would occur, and for that we were seen as the devil himself and someone that MUST die.

Do YOU debate these folks IRL, Pro? I don't. There's a whole world of folks that doesn't share the extremism of these folks. Do you answer your door when the Seventh Day Adventists come knocking just so you can tell them you disagree? Personally, I look out my window at who is knocking at my door and decide whether I'm interested in spending the time. I have Caller-ID for the same purpose. I filter my E-mail to avoid conversations with those who have demonstrated that my time would be wasted discussing the topics paramount to THEM, but insignificant to ME.

I can't believe I'm the only person who does this, Pro. My SO worked with a VERY nice lady and we were invited to her home once. While there, we were "entertained" by her husband "displaying" how his dogs would heed his every command. He had a young dog and a VERY old dog. The very OLD dog was treated in the very same way as the young dog. We were "entertained" by almost an hour of the very old dog being forced to perform the same tricks for a treat as the young dog. By the end of the visit, I was just about sick to my stomach and mentioned what I thought to be cruelty on the way home. My SO simply said, "He's an asshole."

Now, either of us could have stood up and stated "I see your form of entertainment as cruelty to this animal. He's OLD, he's BLIND, but all YOU can see is your continued POWER over this animal DESPITE his weaknesses." Instead, we chose to remain silent. We can still spend time with the VERY nice lady, although modify the environment to one in which her husband has little input. Had we openly expressed our opinions, she may have been thrown out with the bathwater.

-- Anita (notgiving@anymore.thingee), February 09, 2000.

Pro,

I think that if you hadn't resorted to spamming the forum, you wouldn't have been banned. Flint and Decker were never banned, but they never spammed, either. Arguing the points of Y2K(or anything, for that matter) is usually a good thing for both sides of the argument. When the argument degrades to the point of yelling(or spamming) then any good is lost.

I suggest you apologize for the spamming, and see if the Sysops would welcome you back as an opposing side of the Y2K argument.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), February 09, 2000.

I think that if you hadn't resorted to spamming the forum, you wouldn't have been banned.

Actually, he was banned before any spamming began.

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), February 09, 2000.

" Look I know I'm on a lonely and fruitless crusade here,"

Then Move on! Go ahead...leave. I realize from the 'threatening' mail I've recieved from you at my 'home' that you have issues of one form or another, but if you don't like it, then just leave. At this point, by your own admitance, this song is over, the album done, the lights are off... Y2K was a bust...so why do you persist in both self and mutual public flagellation? Hell, you claiming the "evil" of this place. Pro, by an earlier admitance, you once said you were a 32 year old father of two. Hate to say it there bubba, but you wouldn't know true evil if you tripped on it in the street. You blindly hammer on people who dump on this country...including myself. Have you ever spend one day defending this country from a REAL threat? Have you ever shed blood or sweat for this country? I know I have...therefore it puts me in a unique position that I've earned the right to dump on this country.

So...no attack intended...Just really...if you are here..then Why? It makes no sense. As on Drill Sgt I knew once said if you beat your head against the wall, all you end up with is a sore head and a wall, and the wall still won't care.

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan101st@Aol.com), February 09, 2000.

off off

-- (off@off.off), February 09, 2000.

Y2k Pro... Leave.

You JOINED the spam attack when it was underway by Doomers, et. al., the weekend before Thanksgiving. I, regular posters and other Sysops "watched" you do it. Since you've been banned, just about every single day you spam this forum. A waste of energy and a pain in the ASCII... for everyone.

Now who's twisted? You've become a TROLL. Better look closely at yourself... "Dad." Is this the internet behavior you'd want your children to learn and participate in?

*Sheesh*

Go get a life, dude.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), February 09, 2000.

Hey Pro -- are you behind the spam attacks on CNN et al? I think the FBI will be paying you a visit soon, "Daddy"

-- (@ .), February 09, 2000.

Pro:

I must repost your response so that I may refer to it in my comments:

"Yours is a very thoughtful response. I live my life in a simialr fashion to yours - but I am always angry with myself if I don't challenge those who seek to make all of us uglier."

I get angry with myself when I do stupid stuff, but I don't get angry with myself when I ignore folks who spout hatred based on their own ignorance of a situation. This forum is NOT real life, Pro. I will admit to writing Diane when several threads came to this forum discussing recipes for cooking dead people. I found those threads to be in the worst of taste and didn't understand why they were allowed. I believe her response said something about folks being scared. I didn't feel that EXCUSED the postings, but I don't have a say in what this forum accepts or doesn't accept.

"Would you allow someone to continually use the word "nigger" in front of you? How about "kike" or "fag"? At what point do you say that hatred, although not pointed in my direction, diminishes all of us? At what point do you say that while I agree with your opinions on Y2K, your hatred and treatment of (fill in the blank) is not acceptable That is my complaint about Timebomb 2000. We had people here who were essentially saying "nigger" "kike" and "fag"- and their comments were met by silence from the forum regulars."

I would NOT remain in the physical presence of folks who used the terms you mentioned, Pro. Much like my example regarding power over the dog, there are and will always BE folks who [through their OWN ignorance or low self-esteem] feel a need to be superior to others. I'm neither responsible for their behavior, nor do I feel their behavior reflects upon ME.

Certainly I would have behaved differently had the discussions on this forum occurred IRL, but they DIDN'T. This is the INTERNET, Pro. It's NOT a gathering at your HOME. Every single forum I've visited has had a mixture of fine people and a mixture of downright assholes. That's the mix that real life includes. The internet in general contains a greater mix of the latter because anonymity allows folks to say whatever they want without fear of real-life retributions. Folks aren't talking to MY face or YOUR face. They're talking to a box.

I don't know if you follow Gary Larson's cartoons, but on January 24th of the new "Millenium Calendar", he presented one that could very well describe the internet, although I prefer to see the cartoon as God [the chef] creating the world. There are birds, insects, krill, med. skinned people, light-skinned people, dark-skinned people, reptiles, trees, amphibeans, etc. in jars behind the cook, but the cook is seen throwing a few dashes from a bottle labeled "Jerks", and the thoughts of the cook are "And just to make it interesting...."

When its@coming.soon said "People who want to survive Y2K should be prepared to kill."

Why weren't people Sysman objecting? Look I know I'm on a lonely and fruitless crusade here, but when I saw that comment about how "caring" the folks were on this forum, I had to run for my air- sickness bag.

-- Anita (notgiving@anymore.thingee), February 09, 2000.

Oops.....forgot that I'd left the last two lines of your post there without comment, Pro. I really don't want to see them deleted, but why are you singling out Sysman to defend/rebuke the comments of an anonymous poster?

Personally, I found the Y2k discussion a curious one. I was mostly interested in the technical discussions myself, and I suspect Sysman had more interest in those also. We both have stumbled onto threads of other topics, but I doubt that either of us sought them out in an attempt to find a place where we were welcome in expressing our views of how society in general has slid downhill or our desires to kill those who didn't believe as we did.

-- Anita (notgiving@anymore.thingee), February 09, 2000.

I would far rather have INVAR as absolute dictator of the country than have y2k-pr_ (no, I don't recognize/grant him his handle) as President, and I'm not a big fan of dictatorships. (Think of this comment as being my version of Bill Buckley's comment about preferring to be ruled by the first 100 names in the Boston phone book over being ruled by the Harvard University faculty.)

www.y2ksafeminnesota.com

-- MinnnesotaSmith (y2ksafeminnesota@hotmail.com), February 09, 2000.

and yet you never did answer any of my questions...Why not? You just attacked MinnesotaSmith as a 'shill'. My question is for you, who are you shilling for?

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan101st@Aol.com), February 10, 2000.

y2kpr_ called ME a shill?!? Not that I claim to be on their level of contribution to Y2K awareness, but he might as well call Infomagic and Gary North ones, too. Where did he say this? This would have to be hilarious, and fully in keeping with the abyssal intellectual level this individual habitually displays on this board.

www.y2ksafeminnesota.com

-- MinnesotaSmith (y2ksafeminnesota@hotmail.com), February 10, 2000.

Looks like he was deleted after his usual 'avoidence of the question ' attacks, MinnesotaS... Nice Job there Sysops!! Keep up the good work!

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan101st@Aol.com), February 10, 2000.

Still didn't answer my question there buddy...
At this rate I'd have ta' say its appently clear you went to the "Clinton School for Dodging a Truthful Answer." Whenever faced with a really serious issue, you root around and dredge up anything you think will offend someone into silence. Sorry, but hey...can't happen.

And by the way...how did you get that I 'fantasized' over your childrens deaths...only a sicko would do that... or interpret my poor attempt at a parody of a "From the Ashes" book in such a fashion.

I reserve my fantasies to several beautiful, tall, naked, germanic-looking, blonde females on a quiet beach and a sufficient amount of alcohol to eradicate all pretense of morals. (no offense intended to the fairer sex out there...just my dream you know.)

Not to you or your kids...sorry...you just don't rate that high on my list, man.

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan101st@Aol.com), February 10, 2000.

Y2K Pro doesn't realize it, but his attitude has become just as ugly as the minority here whose attitude he sees as ugly. It reminds me of someone who's a Communist because they feel they have to save the world from Nazis, or someone who's a Nazi because they feel they to save the world from Communists.

The majority on this forum are in the middle and would rather not be dragged into the debate between the extremists on both sides. I could reply to political or religious views here I disagree with, but in my opinion the best way of dealing with extremism is to post useful information others can discuss with civility, which hopefully will expand the middle ground here that is already the majority.

If I had to debunk every political or religious view I disagree with, I wouldn't have time to learn anything new, and it would only escalate the noise level created by extremists who justify their attitudes by pointing at the attitudes of other, different extremists.

-- Middle (of@the.road), February 10, 2000.

and you still haven't answered my question!! LOL!!! You just contiinue to lower yourself... and the quality of discussion. Now refering to me as 'semen breath' Whassamatta Pro? Did I touch a nerve? Man... the ability to discuss, albeit heatedly, different opinions and other such minutiea are the hallmark of the web...
final time
1)If Y2K is over and a bust, why must you persist?
2)If we are so 'pathetic and evil' then why waste your valuable time?
3)and if you enjoy a good arguement? why do you conitually persist in going "as low as you can go?"

Answer me these these questions three, and maybe you can redeem yourself. Having lurked on the de-bunkin' board, and read the lo-cal diet of spitttle that appears to propogate like so much chickenshit, you really should attempt to "raise the bar" so to speak..

Also realize, that one of these days you >might< really piss down the wrong individual's back... I mean really... there are a lot of truly sick and evil twistos out there. Last thing you need is to draw more fire towards yourself in a negative fashion...As another ole' DI used ta say "Don't jump up and down in a firefight...you only draw atention and fire to yourself."

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan101st@Aol.com), February 10, 2000.

...damn...Now I don't believe it's really the Y2KPro. Go me a hunch we got ourselves a real live >troll<. Usually the real Y2KPro wouldve at least come back with some form of bombast...looks like we got a lil mynabird...jeez...
But on the otherhand, if it is you... 'Tis such a shame... I won't waste my time dallying with you any longer...the fun of this game has worn off. I grow weary of you. You bore me. Adios...

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan101st@Aol.com), February 10, 2000.

Revising History again I see Diane. Basically what appears to have happened is that Chuck came in like Billy Jack and you jumped in with some new found "courage?" and hit your delete key of posters you didn't like, i.e., those who you called "trolls". (Chuck, I fogot about THAT incident when I made my post thanking you for your support of freedom of speech....I won't take it back though, if you try to do better...;) For the record:

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl? msg_id=001nwJ

I HAVE RETURNED after a bit of an enforced furlough. the spousal unit offered me the choice of logging all the way out for 10 days or moving the computer to some other plug in some other domicile. I took the propper choice (no the snail mail address remains the same). And I am back with an attitude.

Having spent the last ten or so days in the real world, and having seen the incredible disconect going on from an other vantage point, AND having had a chance to REALLY LOOK at the callendar, I have made some changes in my attitude.

1) DON'T WASTE MY TIME I AIN'T GOTS A LOT!! This goes for EVERYONE as we haven't got a lot of time and it seems to be running faster and faster.

2) CONTRIBUTE TO THE DISCUSSION or get the F### OUT of the WAY!!! Name calling and other disruptive stuff WILL VANISH without a second thought. If you KNOW YOUR post didn't do any of that and in fact was in suport of the target and wonder why YOUR post went away TOO, it's because the OTHER post went away and parallelism needs to be kept (errr I use the term parallelism to mean thread integrity, so that the easily confused of us don't get moreso).

3) I AIN'T GONNA WASTE TIME and bandwith EXPLAININ' NUTTIN' out here on the forum. THAT detracts from the focus we ALL NEED TO HAVE.

4) THE TIME FOR DEBATE on WHETHER or NOT is PAST! I MAY be convinced otherwise but I am REAL tempted to remove this type of post. I am NOT a total brick head (just Italian-Dutch and a Taurus) so if you can convince me with a cogent argumment, I'll back off on this one. BUT it's got to be COGENT, and any reference to balance, access fairness etc will be rejected. TRY to give me a good reason to back off from this one, I would LOVE to but.... right now I don't see the percentage..

5) IF YOU WANT MY ATTENTION, it would be best to use my personal e- mail and NOT the general sysops address as I DO NOT HAVE TIME to check there often. MOST of you know what my address is but for those of you fortunate enough to have not crossed my path:

address is

rienzoo@en.com

YUP!! I have returned with an atitude.

Chuck

SYSOP # 3

I-AM-A-NUMBER

-- sysop#3 (I-AM-a-number@sysops.R.us), November 19, 1999

Answers Whew! Finally Chuck! I NEED a break! Begun leaning more heavily on the delete keys. Zero troll tolerance is KEWL by me!

TIME to focus posters!

;-D

Diane Sysop #1

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), November 19, 1999.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- "There is no proof that Y2K is going to be any more than a BITR." Does this mean there is proof that it will be a BITR....?

"...it's time you all crawled back under the FUD rocks that you crawled out from under.

This guy spends a lot of time getting really upset over other people's folly. Must not have much else to interest him.

Lots of people do things I think are foolish. Since I can't fix 'em, I leave 'em alone.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), November 19, 1999.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

Lisa, A & M thread cleaned up.

Posters, you may see some "gaps" in the conversations. Doing some global snipping of "known" trolls.

Leave... (Doomers@suck. big time!!) & Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com)... it's time.

Nuf' said.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), November 19, 1999.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

Okay, Y2K Pro... global snips for you.

Had it!

LEAVE... DeBunker... Go home!

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), November 19, 1999.

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), February 10, 2000.

FactFinder/David (who said he was leaving this forum),

I recognize Y2K Pro is your DeBunker buddy, and you approve of all its actions... but... you need to look at your calendar.

It's on that Friday--before Thanksgiving--they started the massive spamming. Y2k Pro joined in. The worst was on Saturday, then Sunday, and then Monday. They ended any form of tolerance ANY of us had left. Know what it did? All the Sysops agreed that zero tolerance was in order. You're conveniently leaving out all the "junque" they were doing at the time, and for several weeks prior to that. Enough is sometimes... just... enough.

But... that's water under the Y2K bridge... and morphed trolls, like Y2K Pro, can remain there... and STILL get zapped here. Who the heck cares about a spamming zealot anyway? Buy a clue... this is NOT Y2K Pros forum. GI? Pros density only reflects poorly on him/her/it.

Have a good night.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), February 10, 2000.

Hi FactFinder,

I knew you couldn't stay away for long (grin).

So where is your "Revising History" here? As Diane said, the "attack," started by YouKnowWho, when Y2K Pro "joined in," occured the week before Thanksgiving. I witnessed it. I was ON-LINE at the time. But does it really matter?

Y2K Pro hadn't made a "contribution" to this forum for months prior to that "date," and that really is too bad. It was the same old "tinfoil" "hate mongers" crap for weeks on end, day after day, thread after thread. Yea, the "tinfoil" part was funny, but the other part, it is "far" from the truth, and even if these statements were 100% true, do we really need this daily reminder? 10 messages out of over 300,000, over and over and over. If anyone is really that interested, they can find these, and many more I'm sure, in the archive. That's why it's there. And you know, this is a public forum.

I'll bet you would feel a little differently, if you were one of the names on Y2K Pro's "list." What if "FactFinder said this stupid thing" was posted hundreds of times, in hundreds of threads here, no matter what the thread topic was, and no matter what context that you meant it???

I've known you for a while now FactFinder, and even though you are a "polly," I consider you one of many friends here. Being a "polly," you have taken some "heat" here, and I've seen you say a few things that weren't, how shall we say, proper. But being a "fighting doomer" I've also said things here, in the heat of the moment, that I didn't really mean, and things I've later apologized for. I think just about everyone here has made a "stuipd" remark or two.

Y2K Pro was one of my first "pollys" here just about 1 year ago. He has been calling me "fart catcher" for just about that long, and I've used a few "ripe" words in return. We traded "threads and threads" of "battle" for a few weeks. I proposed a "truce" and Y2K Pro accepted it. I imagine most of tha regulars said something like "THANK GOD!".

I never had a "problem" with Y2K Pro, and even a few days ago, stuck up for him, and this "censorship" issue.

The point of this post isn't what did or did not happen in the past. What he is doing NOW does NOT represent this forum, and it DOES NOT "represent" those that are being quoted by Y2K Pro. He knows it, I know it, and I believe the "regulars" here know it.

And I, for one, am glad to see that this "trash" is being removed!

<:(=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), February 10, 2000.

And Y2K Pro,

Remember, since I started this thread, I have a CC of your posts, even if they were deleted. I just read many of them, and I still haven't seen anything that I would consider worthy of discussion on this forum.

But if you have something to say, that you feel is really important, e-mail me. Perhaps the sysops will allow me to quote you. But don't waste my time with the same old crap.

And please Y2K Pro, stop spaming my inbox with the repeated attempts to post Billy's story.

You used to have a sense of humor. I don't know what happened to it, or to you. <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), February 11, 2000.

So where is your "Revising History" here? As Diane said, the "attack," started by YouKnowWho, when Y2K Pro "joined in," occured the week before Thanksgiving. I witnessed it. I was ON-LINE at the time. But does it really matter?

It only matters because of the continued misconception that Y2K Pro was banned for spamming. He was not. The "attack" occurred after he and a few others were already globally deleted that day. It's right there in the message FactFinder posted above. I am not debating whether it was "fair" to ban him or not, it is simply a fact that he was deleted before the spamming attack. As long as people continue to labor under the misconception that he, or anyone else, was banned for spamming, then it still "matters."

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), February 11, 2000.

(hmm@hmm.hmm),

Whatever you "think" happened, you weren't the ones who had to deal with it or witness it... before, during or after. Y2K Pro continues spamming... daily. Get that? DAILY. It's a royal pain in the ASCII and a total waste of energy on the part of a large team of Sysops.

But... do you know "why" it continues? It wants this forum to go private, rather than be open. (You can study the DeBunky archives, if you so choose, to uncover their intentions, especially with regards to MIT. Shower afterwards). Isn't that the highest form of censorship? It is in my book! If it can't honor the guidelines, well that's Pro's choice. Our choice is to zap prior and CURRENT spammers. GI?

"IF" we were ever wrong, I'd apologize. But we're not. And it bloody well (sorry ladies and gentle-men) doesn't matter does it? It continues spamming. These actions are now it's "life." Very tacky behavior, but it doesn't surprise me in the least, when someone "hates" as much as Y2K Pro does.

HATE drives Pro's actions. It does everything it ever "claimed" people here were doing. Untrue, but that's it's warped perception. (And I'll agree, that 5 to 10% of the TBY2K posters were "warped" themselves). The bulk of regulars were concerned, and rightly so... AT THE TIME. History always shifts when you look back on it from hindsight, rather than the position of uncertainty.

At any rate, Y2K Pro doesn't "see" what its become, becuase it's on a "mission." Sad devolution actually. But what do you expect from a zealot who can't move on? Most "un-Christian" behavior, IMHO.

Oh well. Thanks Sysman.

'Nuf said. Move on.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), February 11, 2000.

Whatever you "think" happened, you weren't the ones who had to deal with it or witness it... before, during or after.

Actually, I did witness it, as did many others here at the time. I watched the whole event develop starting with Chuck's message which FactFinder quoted above.

Y2K Pro continues spamming... daily. Get that? DAILY. It's a royal pain in the ASCII and a total waste of energy on the part of a large team of Sysops.

Relax, Diane, I see what Y2K Pro is doing and I certainly understand the difficult job you all have and all the work you've put into this. It's very unfortunate and I certainly don't envy your position. My only point was, and still is, that Y2K Pro wasn't banned for spamming. That's all.

Regarding his motivation and or that which drives him, I don't think you or I could really say for sure because neither of us are mind- readers. I only endeavored to make one point and hopefully I've made it. So as you would say. . .

'Nuf said.

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), February 11, 2000.

Diane:

What exactly do you mean by "spamming"? Is adding one off topic post to a thread considered "spamming"? Then many doomers and non- doomers alike are doing that repeatedly.

Is starting 3 or 4 OT threads a day considered "spamming"? Then you better talk to Carl and Homer because 99% of what they post has zip to do with Y2K. All they do is look for any computer related problem or natural disaster or just about any other news topic and cut and paste it. Now, Dee is doing the same thing and almost none of it has any relevance whatsoever.

It seems like you are bringing all this enrgy drain on yourself. If you didn't delete every post he makes, he probably wouldn't post more than 2 or 3 times a day. Are 2 or 3 posts that big of a deal? Are people on the board not big enough to just ignore his posts if they don't like them.

Maybe I am missing something but I don't see how what Y2K Pro posts is any more disruptive or off topic or whatever else you want to call it to be classified as spamming compared to what many others do on a daily basis.

I think you made your point in November and December that you and the other moderators felt Y2K was entering a critical time period and that a zero tolerance policy was needed. OK, I'll give you that but don't you think that the critical time is now past. Why not give him an opportunity. Define what is and isn't acceptable and se if he (and everyone else who posts here) will abide by those rules. Because, other than the comment about immediate deletion, I don't see where anything he has posted on this or other threads violates any of the posted guidelines -- at least no more than many posts and threads that are left intact.

C'mon Diane, Chuck, etc. Show yourselves to be the better people, challenge Y2K Pro to live within the same guidelines you establish fro everyone else, and give him a chance to show that he can. It doesn't cost you any effort to do so and in fact it reduces your deletion work considerably.

-- My Full Name (My@email.address), February 11, 2000.

Full name, I would think that adding the EXACT SAME POST to a couple dozen threads a day, regardless of the topic of the threads, would be considered spamming. Also posting that same post as a thread 20 or so times daily, several times a week, might fit the description.

Tillijen

-- Tilly, Gunner (warhammer@Pride.of.Mandeyne), February 11, 2000.

Dear My Full Name;

If you were to be a regular patron in a gay bar, and someone came in and loudly declaimed on the wrongness of the lifestyle, how the denizens of the bar were going straight to Hell, don't you think that the loud ones would be ejected, fairly roughly?? And told NOT to come back?? And removed each time they did??

By the same token, If you went into an American Legion Post Bar and started loudly talking about "Baby Killers" (a favorite anti-war mantra in 1971-72-73), don't you think that the person would be ejected sumarily, and barred thereafter??

Both analogies are fairly accurate.

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), February 11, 2000.

My Full Name -

You do not see the unnumerable times Pro (or any other troll) posts because the sysops team is quite good at deleting them. One hundred and fifty posts from Pro (let's say three different posts repeated fifty times) during the course of a day is not unusual.

The way I understand it, "spam" is any unwanted mail. Spamming is the receipt of unwanted mail, although it also can mean an abundance of that mail. One off-topic post to a thread is not considered spamming and usually is not deleted. Starting several threads a day is not considered spamming, unless they are the identical thread. Pro is on the delete-on-sight list, as are some others. The decision of the sysops is final. These two facts are printed clearly in the posting guidelines portion of the New Answers page.

Y2K Pro has had enough chances to live within the same guidelines established for everyone. He and the other trolls were repeatedly warned that they would be deleted if they could not abide by the rules. They chose not to abide by the rules. Their "see what you made me do" attitude is unacceptable.

The sysops team operates under guidelines approved by the majority of people on this forum. The few who disagree with the way this forum is operated are free to start their own forums or post elsewhere. In addition, there is a "TB2K deletions" forum--I'm sure someone will give you the URL--where you can read some of what we take out. I don't think the hard-core porn deletions are posted there, though.

-- member (of@sysops.team), February 11, 2000.

Interesting analogies, Chuck. I think if you went into an American Legion Post and started yelling "Kill all those damn Vietnamese! Good for nothing Japs! God Damn Germans", many would be uncomfortable because, even though they had said the same things in the past, they now felt differently and did not want to be reminded how the felt and acted before. That is what I see Y2K Pro doing now and what is getting deleted.

Here are the current guidelines:

PLEASE check recent questions and postings before you decide to post a new question of your own.

Violated on a daily basis by the cut-and-paste news crew but never a comment.

TimeBomb 2000 Forum Posting Guidelines:

 Y2K--preparation and related issues--are recommended discussion topics

Half the posts are marked OT and half of the rest should be

 We ask that vendors refrain from posting direct information about their products and services

Never enforced

 Challenge posts with facts or reasoned arguments--try to avoid flames

Violated constantly, by both sides

 If you have nothing of Y2K value to say--lurk dont post  Post using your own name or handle--stealing may result in deletion

Ditto

 Once 3-5 regular posters request DELETE--pointless threads may be removed

Definition of 'pointless' varies among regulars

 Refrain from using profane/obscene language--or post will be deleted

Never applied consistently

 Dont feed the trolls--please

Define 'troll' without using the term 'polly'

 Delete assessment of TBY2K SYSOP(s)--is final

Fine, as long as deletion is due to violating one of the published guidelines and not just because one of the sysops disagrees with or dislikes a certain poster

But, as I suggested above, why not make the guidelines a little clearer and give YK Pro a chance? What is the harm? Where does posting cut's and pastes from earlier posts violate any of the above guidelines.

BTW, there is a new thread titled something about the Exorcist being rereleased that has nothing to do with Y2K and appears to be nothing more than a mild attack on ImSoLame and myself (I think so even though they got the handle wrong). I think it should remain but I can guarantee that if I had authored the post and put used Hawk and KOS as the targets, it would already have 3 or 4 "DELETE this trash" replies to it.

There is a lot of water under the bridge and all I am saying is why not try for a fresh start. What does it hurt to give him a one or two day probationary period? You can always resume the global deleting anytime in the future and save yourself some grief now. If people are not mature enough to fess up to what they have written in the past, they probably ought to find a new hobby!

-- My Full Name (My@email.address), February 11, 2000.

Please, somebody go unchain My Full Name from that chair where he's forced to read all this terrible irrevelant stuff all the time!!! You can see its taking up his time and causing him problems--let him go!!! It's not fair to make him! Isn't there a law against forcing people to do thngs they don't want to do? Poor guy!!!

FREE MY FULL NAME!!!

-- Help (this@poor.guy), February 11, 2000.

I hope to discuss this in detail a little later, but for now, I'm stuck with work, so a only quick comment, My Full Name.

"2 or 3 times a day"

No, more like 50 or 75. I have seen it, time and again. Y2K Pro feels that it is his duty to guard the entrance of the evil TB2000 forum, and scare everyone away, before they get sucked in.

Bullshit. People can make up their own mind, as to what is or is not going on here. And the archive was still there the last time I checked.

I would like to comment on all of your remarks on the guidelines, but like I said, I'm a little busy. Let's take a few for now:

"PLEASE check recent questions and postings before you decide to post a new question of your own. - Violated on a daily basis by the cut- and-paste news crew but never a comment"

Do you know how many hundreds of times I have posted a "see also" link? And no, I'm not a sysop, just a regular user, trying to HELP. And I guess you feel that one thread is enough for a jet crash?

"We ask that vendors refrain from posting direct information about their products and services - Never enforced"

Now look, if I came here and said "I'm from Sysman Software Inc, buy my product to end your Y2K worries" I would get tossed, and I think I should. But that is far different from me HELPING a friend, that has a "problem with Microsoft Windows" for example. If I can offer assistance, I will. Get over it.

But none of this is the point. This is about what Y2K Pro is doing here NOW, today. Disrupting this forum, and wasting everyone's time, not just the sysops.

And what makes it worse is that it does NOT represent this forum, nor it's users. It is trash, plain and simple.

Sorry, Y2K Pro has had more than enough chances to cooperate with this forum. Just my not so humble opinion.

Later. <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), February 11, 2000.