It is on now and I know it has happened before. No link, it is Fox News.....'too many Holocaust books'....how can this subject even be up for debate? That one in the 40's was just a warmup for the big one. And they took a lot of others also.

-- Kyle (fordtbonly@aol.com), February 07, 2000

Answers

"those who would repeat history, must control the teaching of history." - Frank Herbert

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There are other Holocausts to remember as well. Revisionist can not erase the truth, they can only blur it.

Of course, the number of deaths doesn't change the nature of the crime, it is still mass murder of an unarmed and peaceful people. We should remember all of the Holocausts and pray that it never happens again.

The "Forgotten Holocaust" was ordered by Stalin. Here is an article that summarizes the story. I don't have the link at this time:

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Remembering Ukraine's Unknown Holocaust

From the Toronto Sun

By ERIC MARGOLIS

Contributing Foreign Editor

As Britain's socialist government cleared the way for a gaudy show trial of that Great Satan of the left, Chile's Gen. Augusto Pinochet, the 65th anniversary of this century's bloodiest crime was utterly ignored. Leftists now baying for Pinochet's head don't want to be reminded of the Unknown Holocaust.

In 1932, Soviet leader Josef Stalin unleashed genocide in Ukraine. Stalin determined to force Ukraine's millions of independent farmers - called kulaks - into collectivized Soviet agriculture, and to crush Ukraine's growing spirit of nationalism.

Faced by resistance to collectivization, Stalin unleashed terror and dispatched 25,000 fanatical young party militants from Moscow - earlier versions of Mao's Red Guards - to force 10 million Ukrainian peasants into collective farms. Secret police units of OGPU began selective executions of recalcitrant farmers.

When Stalin's red guards failed to make a dent in this immense number, OGPU was ordered to begin mass executions.

But there were simply not enough Chekists (secret police) to kill so many people, so Stalin decided to replace bullets with a much cheaper medium of death - mass starvation.

All seed stocks, grain, silage and farm animals were confiscated from Ukraine's farms. (Ethiopia's Communist dictator Mengistu Haile Mariam used the same method in the 1970s to force collectivization: the resulting famine cased one million deaths.)

OGPU agents and Red Army troops sealed all roads and rail lines. Nothing came in or out of Ukraine. Farms were searched and looted of food and fuel. Ukrainians quickly began to die of hunger, cold and sickness.

When OGPU failed to meet weekly execution quotas, Stalin sent henchman Lazar Kaganovitch to destroy Ukrainian resistance. Kaganovitch, the Soviet Eichmann, made quota, shooting 10,000 Ukrainians weekly. Eighty percent of all Ukrainian intellectuals were executed. A Ukrainian party member named Nikita Khruschchev helped supervise the slaughter.

During the bitter winter of 1932-33, mass starvation created by Kaganovitch and OGPU hit full force. Ukrainians ate their pets, boots and belts, plus bark and roots. Some parents even ate infant children.

The precise number of Ukrainians murdered by Stalin's custom-made famine and Cheka firing squads remains unknown to this day. The KGB's archives, and recent work by Russian historians, show at least seven million died. Ukrainian historians put the figure at nine million, or higher. Twenty-five percent of Ukraine's population was exterminated. Millions of victims

Six million other farmers across the USSR were starved or shot during collectivization. Stalin told Winston Churchill he liquidated 10 million peasants during the 1930s. Add mass executions by the Cheka in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania; the genocide of three million Muslims in the USSR; massacres of Cossacks and Volga Germans and Soviet industrial genocide accounted for at least 40 million victims, not including 20 million war dead. Kaganovitch and many senior OGPU officers (later, NKVD) were Jewish. The predominance of Jews among Bolshevik leaders, and the frightful crimes and cruelty inflicted by Stalin's Cheka on Ukraine, the Baltic states and Poland, led the victims of Red Terror to blame the Jewish people for both communism and their suffering. As a direct result, during the subsequent Nazi occupation of Eastern Europe, the region's innocent Jews became the target of ferocious revenge by Ukrainians, Balts and Poles.

While the world is by now fully aware of the destruction of Europe's Jews by the Nazis, the story of the numerically larger holocaust in Ukraine has been suppressed, or ignored. Ukraine's genocide occurred 8-9 years before Hitler began the Jewish Holocaust, and was committed, unlike Nazi crimes, before the world's gaze. But Stalin's murder of millions was simply denied, or concealed by a left-wing conspiracy of silence that continues to this day. In the strange moral geometry of mass murder, only Nazis are guilty. Socialist luminaries like Bernard Shaw, Beatrice and Sidney Webb and PM Edouard Herriot of France, toured Ukraine during 1932-33 and proclaimed reports of famine were false. Shaw announced: "I did not see one under-nourished person in Russia." New York Times correspondent Walter Duranty, who won a Pulitzer Prize for his Russian reporting, wrote claims of famine were "malignant propaganda." Seven million people were dying around them, yet these fools saw nothing. The New York Times has never repudiated Duranty's lies.

Modern leftists do not care to be reminded their ideological and historical roots are entwined with this century's greatest crime - the inevitable result of enforced social engineering and Marxist theology.

Western historians delicately skirt the sordid fact that the governments of Britain, the U.S. and Canada were fully aware of the Ukrainian genocide and Stalin's other monstrous crimes. Yet they eagerly welcomed him as an ally during World War II. Stalin, who Franklin Roosevelt called "Uncle Joe," murdered four times more people than Adolf Hitler.

None of the Soviet mass murderers who committed genocide were ever brought to justice. Lazar Kaganovitch died peacefully in Moscow a few years ago, still wearing his Order of the Soviet Union, and enjoying a generous state pension.

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-- snooze button (alarmclock_2000@yahoo.com), February 07, 2000.

Thanks, snooze. Heard all that before, but it doesn't get nearly enough attention. The leftist press would like to ignore it. Saying nice things about Castro is all part of that denial.

History is fascinating, but it can also be REALLY depressing.

-- and Mao also killed (a@lotof.people), February 07, 2000.

I know a lot of people were killed by fascist and communist governments. 'We' did it ourselves....the Indians and slavery. We are just as guilty. The Japanese citizens who were thrown in gulags and lost property. We will do it again. Will you be on the bandwagon or will you save an other-race guy if he knocks at your door for help?

I think 'we' are gonna throw out the Jews next, huh?

-- Kyle (fordtbonly@aol.com), February 07, 2000.

Sysops, I may be a troll. Don't mean to be. But, I am a Jew lover. Cuz I believe the Bible literally. Delete me if you will. I hope you don't though, where will I find any real news?

-- Kyle (fordtbonly@aol.com), February 07, 2000.

Snooze --

Thanks for the post.

-- Lurkess (Lurkess@Lurking.XNet), February 07, 2000.

Hey Kyle-

Enjoy your posts! You are not alone. I am a Jew lover too! After all, Jesus is a Jew! Pray for peace in Israel. Shalom

-- (I Believe(Repent@time is now.com)), February 07, 2000.

I Believe, everyone is myopic. They don't realize Israel is the focal point. But, I think all eyes will be peeled soon enough.

-- Kyle (fordtbonly@aol.com), February 07, 2000.

Never Again !

This is a fairly large picture so I figured I'd better put a link, rather than insert the photo.

-- who, me? (not.safe@home.anymore), February 07, 2000.

nice pic....but it is destined to happen again and you can't stop it...no matter how many guns ya got.

-- Kyle (fordtbonly@aol.com), February 07, 2000.

Interesting thing I heard (or read?) about Stalin:

Stalin basically couldn't stand to leave anyone with leadership or good ideas alive, because he felt threatened by them. So soon he was surrounded by "yes-men." And thus didn't get good advice and made rotten decisions even apart from his sadistic paranoia.

Stalin finally had cowed everyone so much, no one crossed him at all. But he wanted to continue to periodically make examples of people, to keep them in fear so he'd have total control. Since no one was giving him any excuses anymore, he framed victims to serve as examples. One victim was a doctor--Stalin had him tortured until he confessed.

Later, Stalin suffered a stroke in his office, but everyone was too scared to treat him or to do anything. After three days or so on the floor, he died.

What I don't understand is how everyone could go along with it when even Stalin's closest henchmen were targets, and didn't even have to be guilty of anything!

-- S. Kohl (kohl@hcpd.com), February 07, 2000.

nice pic....but it is destined to happen again and you can't stop it...no matter how many guns ya got.

Really? Consider the numerous historic counter-examples.

Bue, for the sake of an argument, let's say you are correct. You can make you last-ditch stand with a shovel and I make mine with a rifle. Bigger escort when entering Valhalla that way...and fewer predators left to go after my friends and family.

You can decide for yourself.

-- Oleg Volk (olegv@dd-b.net), February 08, 2000.

Kyle-what do you mean by everyone's eyes will be peeled back soon?

-- (I Believe (Repent@time is now.com)), February 08, 2000.

You guys are only going back a couple of hundred years here. What about the millions of deaths at the hands of the catholic church?

They almost wiped out all the Pagan/Gypsy peoples, so much so that even after a thousand years we who practice Pagan ways must watch our backs only because of our religious preferences!!

The crusades, the inquisition, these were worse than the "holocaust" of WW11, but there are not enough of these indiginous peoples left to speak out for their ancestors.

All that were left converted to christianity out of FEAR, and were forced to turn their backs on their original Gods and Goddesses, who treated them quite well before greedy knights of the temple, spainards, and portugese took to the seas and countrysides to massacre them and take their wealth in the name of christ.

If we're going to look at history, lets take a look at all of it. Humans have been terrorizing each other since before recorded history and it always comes down to greed,ALWAYS.

Oh, and before anyone starts in on me about my spiritual preferences, if thats a "king james" version of the bible youre quoting from, please go research thet rewriters history and find out what a pious and pure individual he was. Chosen by God indeed!

Pagan by choice

Laurie

-- Laurie (laurelayn@yahoo.net), February 08, 2000.