What is their problem? Secrets are not good, never has been good, never well be good.

-- ET (bneville@zebra.net), February 06, 2000

Answers

That would be your standard LED flashlight?

-- King Of Spain (KOS@AOL.cum), February 06, 2000.

Well, we actually DO like Light. The only secrets we have that you can't find with a library card are the modes of identification. The rest of the world domination claptrap is just that, claptrap.

C

Oh and btw I haven't deleted anything in 36 hours. Barking up wrong tree.

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), February 06, 2000.

And, as any of the older denizens here can attest I have been pretty open on my Masonry.

C

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), February 06, 2000.

Is their any particular point you are making or issue you are addressing here? It seems to me for example that virtually every organization have their private information that they don't readily publish.....for example I can't get the minutes from the congregational meeting of a church I don't attend......they'd basically tell me to mind my own business.

I've heard too much of this utter shite over the years about the supposed dark side to the masons.....no doubt they had some members who held different spiritual or religious points of views than the mainstream, however that is common in just about every organization. Bottom line is men of all religious persuasion are welcome in the masons. I have no interest whatsoever in joining but if I did my religious leanings would not play a part in my membership.

I've read many anti-masonic books in my sad years as a misguided fundamentalist.....most of them are purely hate-mongering and contain many falsehoods. The same guys that write these books are the ones that publish other hate-filled crap such as the "Chick tracts" etc.

Bottom line; the vast majority of members of the masons join for one of two reasons.....they like the friendship and fellowship they get there or they find it a great place to make business contacts.....quite frankly, they don't give a shit about what Albert Pike or any other dead mason believed.

-- Craig (craig@ccinet.ab.ca), February 06, 2000.

Sherlock Holmes tangled with the masons. Dark and devious...cunning and evil....the one who walks in the darkness does not come to the light, lest his evil deeds be exposed...

-- sir (arthur@conan.doyle), February 06, 2000.

Folks this is my way of finding who is causing all my posts to be deleted. It is ok, if it isn't them ,then I will keep hunting. But they better not have told me a lie.

-- ET (bneville@zebra.net), February 06, 2000.

What I find so interesting is that there is so much mis-information around. Particularly the "creatures of the Dark" garbage. Someone who has ANY questions merely needs to read John Roberts book "Born in Blood" to see what we are. Or get the coffee table book on masonry, which does a REAL nice job on the realities.

chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), February 06, 2000.

errrr john Robinson

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), February 06, 2000.

Gee folks, that's not my humble understanding of the Masons at all. As I understand the organization, it is very patriotic, and upholds the basic tenets of the constitution. If you really want more info go to:grand-lodge.org/origin/htm. I don't understand why folks seem to want to degrade masons. They do lots of things for underprivelded and handicapped kids and adults, and they have a record or doing good work towards these ends for many years. Can someone explain the distrust I seem to sense here?

-- Aunt Bee (AuntBee@Mayberry.com), February 06, 2000.

Aint Bee, are you one of those CLuMs? (Clandestine Luciferian Masons?)

-- Mikey2k (mikey2k@he.wont.eat.it), February 07, 2000.

So they don't really go through all that 'bound by oath or you die' after all? Just guys having a picnic? Live and let live? Wow, was I mislead!

-- Kyle (fordtbonly@aol.com), February 07, 2000.

Great posts, all!!!

-- ImSo (lame@prepped.com), February 07, 2000.

misled

-- Kyle (fordtbonly@aol.com), February 07, 2000.

Chuck,

There are many well intentioned individuals who contribute to and believe in the cause of environmentalism too, yet if you look into it just a bit, you find that nearly 100% of these environmental groups are linked to, and are front organizations for, globalists.

How was that for a run-on sentence?

Cmdr Don

-- Cmdr Don (cmdrdon@mad.scientist.com), February 07, 2000.

Whether they realize it or not Masons pray to Satan. Maybe they don't realize it. But it is another human club that they put their faith in. A buddy club that is ancient and derived from mystery religions. But, I am sure some of the guys caught up in it think it is very patriotic.

Chuck, how long ya been in that shit?

-- Kyle (fordtbonly@aol.com), February 07, 2000.

What a bunch of fruitcakes! Is there ANYTHING which you don't consider a conspiracy? I'm a damned environmentalist, but I'm told that I'm not very global at all.

And the devil is a figment of your imagination. You make your own hell or heaven right here on earth, folks.

-- jumpoff joe a.k.a. Al K. Lloyd (jumpoff@ekoweb.net), February 07, 2000.

From my limited understanding of the Mason's, they go "dark" during the summer months when they are not pursuing their charitable activities ...that is what "dark" has been perceived by me....am I correct, any Mason posting?

-- snikpoh (snikpoh@ecentral.com), February 07, 2000.

May I ask a simple question? I don't anything about Masons. I did a quick search on Dog Pile but didn't find much in the little time trying to keep up with the responses on this thread. Any links or information would be helpful. In the meantime, I'll keep looking. To be honest, I have never heard of the Masons in my 46 years. I live in the northern US close to the Canada Border, MN I mean no dis- respect to anyone by asking this question.

-- Bill (sticky@2sides.tape), February 07, 2000.

Bill,

Go to www.google.com and in the search box type in "freemasonry"...you will get 10,500 hits in .03 seconds.

Happy researching!

Cmdr Don

-- Cmdr Don (cmdrdon@mad.scientist.com), February 07, 2000.

Thanks Don for the helpful hint, You put me on the right track. I'll give it lots of research. Thanks again. Can't beleive that I don't know this!!

-- Bill (sticky@2sides.tape), February 07, 2000.

I believe the Masons come from the ancient cult of the Druids... as a matter of stats, they are in command of the world banking system, etc. Some Masons prefer to be regarded as Shriners, then some like to be not exposed at all, but they are known as the illuminati. Is this not true? Masons seem to have the edge on law and order... and all the support systems to order... or disorder... like the Christian church, there are bad men and good men, in fact, in the Christian realm, there are many who say they worship God but are going to hell, and quite so, in the Masons, there are men who do worship God and will see HIM someday and call HIM "LORD" ... it is not whether we call GOD "LORD" or not that makes us Christian and Born again, as it is whether we have GOD's approval on our life. I disagree with the Catholic Church, and the Budahist, the Mormons, and the Masons... I do not even like men who say "LORD, LORD, look all that I have done in YOUR name!" It is hard for me to go along with all the Copelands, and Tiltons, and Benny Hinns, and Capps, Hagans... because they all are buying into the same stuff... "We believe...and see all we can do!" I just have to look at it all, and say, "It is not who you say you are, and who places their stamp on you... it is whether you have GOD's approval on what you are and do"... I know a lot of men who have come from the Masons, and the Mormons, and ... so on... Saved, strong and Repentant Soldiers of Christ ... who ahve shunned the game and secrets of their past bondages to embrace the Kingdom of Righteousness and eternal life. Darkness you say! Masons ... or TV Evangelists... the difference? Commitment and devotion... one blows with the wind and the other makes the wind blow!

BRyan

-- SB Ryan G III (sbrg3@juno.com), February 07, 2000.

The Light of the World
"Then spake Jesus unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life". (John viii,12)

Inner Light
Inward and spiritual light; knowledge divinely imparted; as used by Quakers, the light of Christ in the Soul.
"Quakers (that, like to lanthorns, bear
Their light within 'em) will not swear".
Butler: Hudibras, II, ii.

To bring to light
To discover and expose; to reveal.

To see the light
To be born; to be converted; to come to full understanding or realisation of something.

To put out one's light.
To kill him.

To stand in one's own light
To act in such a way as to hinder one's own advancement.

------------------

Comment:
In Australia Masonic tradition brings an understanding to everyone in the community. This thread's question attempts to do otherwise.

Regards from Down Under

-- Pieter (zaadz@icisp.net.au), February 07, 2000.

1. Masons (Freemasons) are based upon a couple of simplistic ideals which some of you wouldn't recognise if you trod on them. 2. One of these is the belief in a supreme being, call him God, Allah or what ever. 3. They are a body of men gathered (theoretically) for mutual fraternity and to assist their fellow humans. 4. The idea of them being a "Secret Society" is crap, they are NOT hidden, however they do have secrets, (but there again, so do Coke, Kentucky Chicken et al. ask for their recipe to find out.) 5. The fact is, that there are always good and bad in all sociological groups, due to vetting before initiation, we believe Masons are relatively "clean", compared say, to the U.S.A. Congress!

C'mon fellas, talk about things you KNOW about, not fantasise about!

Scarlet (to my friends)

-- Scarletbreasted (scarletbreasted@hotmail.com), February 07, 2000.

Ummm, going "dark" in the summer simply means that we have no meetings. Other uses of the term going dark refer to the loss of a charter. For instance, one of the DeMolay chapters hereabouts lost it's charter due to no membership last year and they were said to have gone dark.

Sheesh.

Go read either Temple and the Craft (Baigent and Leigh) for one of the theories of the history of the Organization, or Robinson's book for where the organization is in terms of goals, works etc.

Here in the US we tend to be primarily a charitable organization, giving, nationally, aproximately 1million dollars a DAY to charitable works such as the Shrine Burn Centers, the Shrine Orthopedic Centers, and Masonic Hospitals, and Homes, nationwide. Treatment in Shrine hospitals is rendered without concern for ability to pay. The best burn center in the country is in Texas, and happens to be a Shrine hospital.

Shriners are simply another group which draws its membership from the Masonic Fraternity. If we were a secret society, we wouldn't march in parades, we wouldn't be active in our communities, we wouldn't be doing things to help with types of paralysis, burns, eye research (retinitis Pigmentosa), etc.

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), February 07, 2000.

In college, I joined a "Greek" social fraternity. It had its roots in religion and provided fellowship for its members. After college, I joined the Masonic Lodge. It had its roots in religion and provided fellowship for its members. It also provided "good works" for the community and the country.

Many of our founding fathers and many presidents have been Masons. The entire history of America has been enriched by men who were members of this honorable society.

-- rb (ronbanks_2000@yahoo.com), February 07, 2000.

That's neat, I didn't know them there crazy Shriner's in their little bitty funny cars (and great big convertible cars) were related to Washington's bricklayers union ..... 8<)

Both do good works here on earth .... let the result afterwords be between them and God. Like for everybody.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), February 07, 2000.

Wow what a thread....hmmm....do you suppose Jesus, Himself being God, could maybe choose whom He would save? maybe?

-- Kyle (fordtbonly@aol.com), February 07, 2000.

rb, must be nice to be set for eternity.

-- Kyle (fordtbonly@aol.com), February 07, 2000.

Never understood the big war between the Knights and the Pope. Same group. Still going on today. Must be a 'macho' thing.

-- Kyle (fordtbonly@aol.com), February 07, 2000.

There seems to be a contradiction with an organisation that claims to be patriotic, but keeps its members in the dark about the tax fraud that has been perpetrated on the American public since 1913. Please don't say they don't know.......... Okay, play the kook-card.........zzzzzzzzzzzzz,yawnnnnnnnnnnnn

-- reality check (theallseeing@eye.com), February 07, 2000.

Kyle,

It had to do with the geopolitical aspirations of the Holy See, some Gold, and a French Pope (or 3), who seemed to die until one finally disolved the Templars and authorised the French King to confiscate the coffers of the Order (Fri the 13th). Said king was very disappointed to get to the Templar Temples and find:

a) The gold gone

b) the ships gone.

OH WELL.

CHuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), February 07, 2000.

Gee, the only "scary Mason" stories I ever got to hear were the ones about Grandad almost being lynched by the KKK in Wilmington, NC when he was "outed" as being a Mason. I guess there was some bad blood between the two groups around the turn of the last century.

Of course maybe the old saw about "You can tell the worth of a man (or organization) by the character of his enemies." has some bearing on this issue.

WW

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), February 07, 2000.

Yeah, Chuck, but are you a 33rd degree Mason? Different "degrees" are "enlighted" to different degrees.
There are a lot of bankers and politicians who are working with the establishment, but only a very, very few get to go to the Bohemian Grove or the Bilderberger meetings.

P.S., I'll tell you my college fraternity handshake if you tell me the Mason's. :o)

All -- watch for a movie later this spring or summer -- "SKULLS" (from Skull and Bones, the secret college society from which future "leaders" are groomed). I wonder if Clinton is/was one, and so was picked to go on to Oxford. I mean, here is an Arkansas hick with no family or prior connections, yet someone saw something in him (like a useful sociopathy :o) ) and greased his way to the top.

-- A (A@AisA.com), February 07, 2000.

By Clinton being at the top, I mean of the above-ground establishment, not the real PTB establishment.

-- A (A@AisA.com), February 07, 2000.

Many, MANY years ago (back in high school), I was active in DeMolay, a youth organization affiliated with the Masons and inspired by a Knight Templar who refused to betray his Order and his comrades. Thoroughly enjoyed the experience. Our Masonic advisors were great guys and good mentors and the ladies from Eastern Star were wonderful. Lots of service activities, lots of good friendships, boatloads of good memories.

Have always been a bit amused by all those dark stories involving the Masonic Orders. I guess I missed all the really good meetings...

-- DeeEmBee (macbeth1@pacbell.net), February 07, 2000.

DeeEmBee, you just weren't ambitous enough. Hehe.

A, Chuck appears to be a company man, you know the guy who sits outside of the CEO's office and hasn't a clue to what is going on. But, damn he will carry the banner.

-- Kyle (fordtbonly@aol.com), February 07, 2000.

Kyle -

Chuck's been a valuable contributor to this forum for a very long time, so I'd be very careful with the ad hominem stuff, OK? Thanks.

-- DeeEmBee (macbeth1@pacbell.net), February 07, 2000.

DeeEmBee, I think you are right as far as my ad hominem remarks. I don't mean to insult either one of you. But, observe carefully how the majority works.....think about it. Masonry is an ancient religion adopted from the tower of Babel. Just like Catholicism.

I have seen both of your posts and have appreciated them greatly. This thread got into beliefs somehow and I will stand my ground. Masonry is pure Evil...not to say you or Chuck are damned.

Wow, I know my days are numbered here....and I will miss it.

-- Kyle (fordtbonly@aol.com), February 07, 2000.

" de Sion"

Isn't it all about the Blood Line?

-- ;-) (karlacalif@aol.com), February 07, 2000.

Secrets are not good, never has been good, never well be good. IMHO that is bull (besides bad grammar). Some secrets are better kept. They also make life interesting.

Since noone else has provided a link, try this:

In case the hot link does not work: http://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Masonry

A Page About Masonry

Just a link for some of you to check out. Maybe it will bring some reality to your lives. They have a nice section on anti-masonry falsehoods. Take it for what it is worth.

I am not a Mason. This is just one of the first links I came across and thought I would share it with you. I just feel that people should do a little digging. I hope you researched Y2K a little more deeply.

Steve

-- Steve (sron123@aol.com), February 07, 2000.

Kyle,

I am a Mason, 33rd degree as is my Father, who also is a member of the Council of Foreign Relations. He is a banker. My brother works for the ATF. I now work Corporate Personal Security. I am a retired Navy Seal. My Bachelors Degree is in Political Science.

You know have my permision to wet your pants.

-- Chief (bmc@sealret.com), February 08, 2000.

Hold on while I change my underwear.

-- Kyle (fordtbonly@aol.com), February 08, 2000.

Umm Chief, yer e-mail address is neat but not valid. Could you drop me a line??

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), February 08, 2000.

Chuck, are you serious? ROFLMAO!

-- Kyle (fordtbonly@aol.com), February 08, 2000.

Chief, thanks. Do you find your wit seriously underappreciated also?

-- Kyle (fordtbonly@aol.com), February 08, 2000.

Wait a minute - I got lost here....thought the Knights Templar (knights of malta, and a few others) were the good guys back in the Crusades...then were one of few successful group that were able to oppose the Moors/Turks as they invaded Europe in the late middle ages.

The Venetians held them off in the North, the Spanish in the west (just before Columbus) and the Knights did the same in the eastern Med.

If so, how did the Knights (as a traditional an order as is possible to get) get in with the Shriners, who emulate the traditional Arabian style and designations? And, if they came from the middle ages Catholic Crusade tradition?

Unfortunately, we are still seeing the problems from that effort....which good or bad was entirely and literally a politcal/religious "crusade" to re-take the Holy Lands from the ancestors of today's Iran/Iraqi/Turk/Lebonese/Jordanians, who took over Isreal some centuries after the Romans had kicked the Jews out in the first century - who had themselves kicked out several other tribes in the centuries before......

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), February 08, 2000.

Chuck,

Isn't it amazing how people can "turn on you" for your beliefs? Suddenly you are labeled and mistrusted and people are putting negitive ulterior motives on what you say.

It isn't easy being labeled along with all the baggage that comes along with it. Next thing you know people will be swearing at you and telling you that you are not wanted here :o( Just because they do not believe the same things you do....

-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), February 08, 2000.