A recent election that produced a coalition between centerist and newly elected Freedom Party candidates who recieved 27% of the vote. This Austrian first,populist success brought immediate response from the US and Fellow EU nations. The EU placed sanctions and condemmed the new coalition that was the result of a legal election. The right wing (populist) party while a ligitmate reflection of 27% of the voting population represents a wellspring of nationalist and soverignist feeling throughout the West. NWO plans for European union are threatened by strong nationalist feelings of a large number of european nationalist parties. While Leaders revile nationalist sentiments in Austria and France and attempt to thwart the results of recent elections,We can witness the nature of future EU politics,The will of the people in legal elections is not to be tolerated in the new system. This frightening picture of the attempts to control political electorates demonstrates that Reformers of all wings will have a very difficult time addressing the threats to national sovergnity by the Oligarchial NWO, can it be long until we Americans suffer the same fate!

-- Disgruntled voter (It's@Wotsappeningnow.com), February 05, 2000

Answers

I also have been concerned about this issue... A democratically elected government should be allowed to stand. It is interesting that the present US administration would not try this with a leftist government... It is also telling that the present US administration wants to give the unelected communist government of Red China favored nation trade status (and membership in the WTO)...yet comes down hard on Austria for forming a government that was elected by the people!

Maybe Austria should have made larger (ilegal) campaign contributions?

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), February 05, 2000.

Disgruntled voter:

You may be too young to remember the last time we did not oppose the election of a freely chosen Nazi government. The consequences were large. If you read some history, you will get the idea.

Best wishes,,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), February 05, 2000.

Z...How many died at the hands of Chairman Mao and his followers? 5 million? 10 million? How about 20 million? And our government kisses their ass every chance they get.

How many people have the Austrians butchered in the last year, or the last 20 years, or maybe the last 50 years? And our government wants to string them up the nearest tree, because they hold a few nationalistic views similar to Hitler. FOLLOW THE DAMN MONEY!!! Money can be made in China, not in Austria. And that's why we make a stink about Austria politics and not China's.

-- TM (mercier7@pdnt.com), February 06, 2000.

Just in case some miss the allusion: Hitler was legally elected.

-- Frank (helpful@hint.com), February 06, 2000.

Mao's chaos was so total that there are few if any reliable figures on the number killed. 60 million is the number I've come across most often.

I've always thought it odd that even though the far left has killed over ten times the number that the far right has, yet we overtly do business with the far left [China]. Perhaps the 'right' in any form is not to be tolerated since it may lead to violence. Or intolerance.

The ability to tolerate is the cardinal virtue of this age. I guess we'll all get to see to just what new limits our ability to tolerate can be taken.

-- tim phronesia (phronesia@webtv.net), February 06, 2000.

Frank, Hitler was not elected, his party didn't hold a majority, A backroom deal w/a senile President Hindenburg allowed Hitler's seizure of the reigns of power....the populist's of Austria are not facists but are after the WTO and NWO as are populists in France and the US. there is NO excuse for trying to undermine a free and democratic election in these times or for that matter any other. Z, you bet I'm old enough to remember the nazi scourge and they were over come By a collection of countries,that didn't interfere in each others sovergnity or elections.LET Austria decide who to vote for--Let them be!!!!!

-- disgruntled voter (election@don'tcountforanythinganymore.org), February 06, 2000.

This looks like a good place to point out that the whole left/right, conservative/liberal dichotomy is contrived, artificial, and inaccurate. It should be obvious to anyone who thinks about it for a minute that fascism and communism are two sides of the same coinsocialist, totalitarian, and opposed to personal libertyand not opposite ends of a spectrum. I would bet large quantities of money that a number of people posting and lurking on this board know this but have never actually consciously thought about it. They've just been vaguely confused when the Republicans back gun rights but refuse to consider the rights of people to behave as they wish in their own homes, and when the Democrats talk about personal "empowerment" and then pass more and more laws dictating how we spend our money, use our property, and raise our children. Sound familiar? Go to www.lp.org, take the world's shortest political quiz, and get a look at what the political spectrum really is. Puts all these debates in a whole new l

-- freez (tomjefferson@ben.franklin), February 06, 2000.

--you are correct, freez! There IS no difference, it's little cutsie pie semantic word games. and yes, there's been more state sponsored murdr and genocide committed by so called "socialism" than by fascism. 20 to 1 probably, in the last century. And the press and popular misconception can't even be the same when referring to countries. In the press and popular conception, far "right" as applied to russia means hardliners in the communist government! It's nutz! Yep, everyone should take that test, most people would find out some interesting things about themselves, and maybe not look at the two political party's in the same way again. I say dump the dictatorship of the Repubrocrats and the Demicans.

--as to Austria, all those NWO run countries of the EU are scared whitless that their citizens will wake up and smell their freedoms burning, that's why Austria is being demonized. Goon parties marching in some march in another europaean country with the hammer and sickle are OK, it appears. They can form "coalition" governments all the time. More power to Austria, hope they break the stranglehold. And I think it's a real disservice to label people "nazi" just because they WANT freedom, and DON'T want to take away others. WE'll see what happens there, I imagine the NWO will attempt an economic boycott, with the US somehow geting involved in the "enforcing".

-- zog (zzoggy@yahoo.com), February 06, 2000.

freez, Zog,

What you said...

Mention that to most people and their head begins to spin, their eyeballs roll up into their heads and they say, "your're crazy".

-- Mark Hillyard (foster@inreach.com), February 06, 2000.

Are there no valid liberal or conservative ideas other than just freedom? Is the libertarian value of absolute freedom to replace today's absolute tolerance? What of loyalty? Integrity? Compassion? Respect? True Learning? Love? Maturity?

Really. Is freedom the *only* valid virtue? Are all virtues but freedom mere illusion?

Can freedom really be itself, really be free, in the absence of other virtues? What's to keep freedom from becoming anarchy? A wild free-for-all where each man and woman stands alone and struggles to dominate all?

*Real* life is hard. And its too big to tackle alone. Or with just a *single* ideology or ideal. Those who haven't learned this yet, will.

Don't we need *all* the character, integrity, and virtue that we can muster? Don't we need the values that bring us togetherness and friendship *just as much* as we need the values which make us free?

-- tim phronesia (phronesia@webtv.net), February 06, 2000.

Mmmmmm, nope. Not if togetherness means living in Hilary's "village", and spouting the party line. Freedom means freedom. Free to do whatever you want, including being loving, caring, compassionateor to be a curmudgeonly old fart that lives by himself on a hill somewhere. Libertarianism is pretty simple: you do what you want, I do what I want, and (here's the crux) neither of us tries to force the other join in. Simple. Anarchy, by the way, means "no leaders", not "raving chaos", as our "leadeers" would have you believe. Sounds pretty good to me!

-- freez (tomjefferson@ben.franklin), February 06, 2000.

Further to the media-spin, you hear them all the time referring to people as far-right, extreme-right, radical-right and now even fascist, yet how many times do they ever say far-left, extreme-left, radical-left? Never. And those "righteous", "compassionate" protest groups opposing the Austrian government? Why, they are "centrist", of course. What a friggin joke!

As has been mentioned above, 10 TIMES the number of people have been murdered by the left than the right; Mao, Stalin, etc., yet that is never mentioned. Just more proof that the media and the left in general are unabashed, bloody hypocrites!

Dictatorships should be the enemy, regardless of which side of the political spectrum they are on - and history shows as clear as day that by 100 to 1, they are almost always left-wing. The problem is that while the right will usually denounce the loss of freedom *regardless* of political leanings, the left only thinks it is bad if the right-wing does it. If it is the left, well, that is OK.

The left voicing fears over a right-wing government is like Charles Manson complaining that the crime rate is too high. The left, historically, have produced 95% of the world's most heinous, monstrous governments and have killed more innocent people than Hitler could have ever *dreamt* of. Like I said - hypocrites - and unprincipled ones at that, since they condone atrocities as long as it is *their* people who are doing it.

-- Steve Baxter (chicoqh@home.com), February 06, 2000.

"The left, historically, have produced 95% of the world's most heinous, monstrous governments and have killed more innocent people than Hitler could have ever *dreamt* of."

I agree except for one thing. Hitler was the epitomy of a leftist. Socialism (Natziism) = Communism = Hillary's Village. The only difference is some minute tinkering that all gets lost on the big picture. ...sdb

-- S. David Bays (SDBAYS@prodigy.net), February 06, 2000.

Correct spelling is: "Nazism". sdb

-- S. David Bays (SDBAYS@prodigy.net), February 07, 2000.