OT - Calling ALL Workers Unions - raise your BATTLE FLAGS!!!!

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Calling all union powers- raise your battle flag !!!! I obo personally ask that you TAKE ON the most vile thing that has plagued our work force in recent history, to the work forces destruction - TEMP COMPANIES!!!

I ask you that you "make war" in the ways only you can "make war" in every way you can on these companies and bring their very existence to ruin so they are utterly destroyed. Yield to them NO concessions, NONE!

They are the enemy of the people and the worker of this country at every level and thus are delcared an enemy of the country.

They have destroyed the purses of the working person in America. They have a choked hold leading to a death strangle on the very spirit of the the worker.

They suck into their coffers half the money of money spent on the employee while the employee is ruined by small wages and no benefits or promotions. Then they turn around and decrease the workers pay at the next job because the workers have become prisoner of the temp companies. Set the prisioners FREE!

It is TIME temp companies GO DOWN!!!

Make an America where the worker again has respect and power in the work force. The worker is the one who creates the profits for this country. Let there be no more profits to any company who so abuses workers and uses or is a temp company.

This day I proclaim the above and beseech the Unions to come the the aid of the Worker.


-- OBO (Ihatetemp@companies.com), February 01, 2000


Um, how about some specific examples of "enslavement" by a temp co?

Is not the economy good enough to ply your talents in a perm position, or go into business for yourself?

-- plead (temp@insanity.here), February 01, 2000.

The economy is only good for a select few a the top of the pay scale.

There is a great percentage of people who are under employed or have to accept temp work just to put food on the table for their familes.

There is nothing more that I would like than a company of my own but have no funds to do that just now maybe someday, and IT WILL NEVER USE TEMP COMPANIES.

Next choice would be a perm job but since I have been doing job searches for two months the VAST majority of jobs online, in papers etc. are posted as jobs then you check into them and they are really TEMP COMPANIES posing as REAL jobs at real companies!

I thought there were laws about false advertising but somehow they are allowed to get away with even advertising jobs that they really do not have. They will post an ad of a specific job then when you get there opps the job was just fill, usually internally you know. I had one even admit they use BLANKET ads just to get people in so they can put them in their data banks makes them look impressive I guess.

I hate temp companies!

-- OBO (Ihatetemp@companies.com), February 01, 2000.

OBO, another category, equally as insulted, The sub-contractors of a lot of companies, Sears, The Government, Truckers. Who dreampt up that sub and contractor concept? Surely did not benefit contractor, only benefited the business, that employed them.

-- Sumpin wrong (withpicture@now.com), February 01, 2000.

My bride is a HR Manager for an industrial manufacturing company. She is RAPIDLY getting to the point of using temps for everything she has. The problem is that if you are NOT working, htere is USUALLY a GLARING reason for your not being a good employee.

SHe tried to hire 3 people last week and they ALL had to be released when the drug tests came back "non-negative". Her company will hire you even WITH a prison record, you just have to be clean and it can't be for a violent crime.

She has to hire 30 more in the next 45 days which means she will interview 150 minimum to get her 30. And EVERYONE starts out on the shop floor at 8.80/hr with Teamster dues taken out.

I don't get to see much of her anymore...... ...... even allowing for my schedule being totally different from hers.


-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), February 01, 2000.

Chuck, I wish your "Misses" much luck. I have, only the tad, of the taste, of her present recruitement process. And I have almost been brought to pulling myself "bald headed" with latest recruitement efforts of the past.

-- A Wosser Story (c@nbefound.com), February 01, 2000.


Maybe if Unions had kept to their basic premise of ensuring a decent wage and a safe place to work they wouldn't find themselves being shut out by temps. My family has a LONG union history (my grandmother used to walk the picket lines at lower east side sweat shops with my father still in his stroller) so I know what unions are SUPPOSED to be.

Instead they (to a large extent) have become blackmailers of the businesses that provide their members a living and are just as corrupt as our goverment. So much so that businesses have sought refuge in the hiring of temps.

I, as a programmer, have worked on ocassion on a contract basis through temp agencies. I really hated them because they typically take a piece (usually 10%-20%) of every dollar I made, but that's the price I had to pay sometimes for the right project. Projects I never would have gotten had it not been for the agency. Some agencies even offer health benefits. So when you call on Unions to "make war" on temp agencies I say "what gives you the right?" How dare Unions try to decide who I work for and how I work for them when they've become so bloated and corrupt themselves?

Go ahead and try to deny it but I've been to some Union headquarters that were decked out nicer than the best Five Star hotel. Mahogony desks, chairs and wall coverings throughout. Gold plated staplers, paper clip holders and tape dispensers on every desk (including the receptionists). If only the membership could see how their dues were being wasted they'd flip.

Before you raise the battle flags you'd be well advised to make sure your own castle isn't made of glass first...


-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIl.COM), February 01, 2000.

I use to be a Kelly Girl and I got some of the best jobs working for them. I'm thinking about going back to work and using them again. My husband is a union employee, it has some ups and downs. It's pretty hard to get fired, everyone gets paid the same (no bonuses for being an exceptional employee), and when the layoffs come it doesn't matter whether your a good employee or a bad one, whoever has the senority stays.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), February 02, 2000.

"Make an America where the worker again has respect and power in the work force. The worker is the one who creates the profits for this country. Let there be no more profits to any company who so abuses workers and uses or is a temp company."

Are you a socialist?
Do you think companies must guarantee employment to all employees?

A skilled worker in todays job market is usually a "hot item", education and skill training will make you "marketable" if there are no major screwups in your documented work history.
Hi-tech jobs are there for the taking, here in Dallas you will get 35 to 75 dollars an hour for contract(temp) work in computers.
No college degree required, just know your stuff.

A "higher power" that "protects" you from your ultimate employer is going to extract a price.
Both Temp Agencies and Unions have their purpose in our modern business environment. They can be both good and bad, it is up to you to shop around to find a place where you will 'fit'.
If one place charges too much for a placement, go to another agency - Vote with your feet.
Here is a site that may provide some tools and information that will help.


-- Possible Impact (posim@hotmail.com), February 02, 2000.

Cha Zam! Leave this fellow, to tomorrow, to tackle, then come out all, enforce.

-- Where the Hell (didthisfell@rappear.com), February 02, 2000.

Monks are permanent employees...

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), February 02, 2000.

I loved being a temp. It was the perfect way to stay out of the "office politics" and catfights that always seem to be going on. I also noticed that the more women were in an office, the more catfights would happen. So therefore, I really preferred working with mostly or all men. They don't get so pissed off if one of them loses 10 pounds and they can't. I was also able to take off for 3 months and go travel anytime I pleased. I felt much more free because of this.

-- (formerly@nowhere.zzz), February 02, 2000.

the temp companies are meeting a need. i think there are a number of problems here. one is: unemployment is so low in parts of the country that the only way you can get help is to hire temps (of whom many are looking for jobs). the second problem is corporate america is also driving the temp train--for example: in maine, when some of the international trade agreements came into place, factories fired many of their permanent folks and now they hire them as temps (with no benefits) and then let them come and go depending upon where they can find cheap labor. this is a crime against the american people thanks to those who pushed the international treaties through and corporate greed.

remember pat buchanan's article (with lots of examples) on corporations and how much disrespect and loathing their leadership have for america!! so they obviously aren't looking out for the best interests of americans.

-- tt (cuddluppy@aol.com), February 02, 2000.

To those who questioned my personal work history, marketability, drug use and maybe even honesty. I assure you I have NO history of drug or alcohol use, no jail or prision, speeding ticket about 5 years ago first one in my life. I am an excellent worker very organized so always get more of a workload than most everywhere I have ever worked. Am there more than most employees and on time much more than most. I have education in distribution 3.9 GPA, and very good software skills as needed in most major offices, MSword, Excel, RUMBA, JD Edwards AS-400, Graphics and others, the computer does not scare me and I can learn any windows package I have ever tried; get real anyone who can read can learn them they are so easy. So to clear it up any questions there is NOTHING wrong with ME! This is not just happening to me. Places I have worked I hear story after story of how it is happening to the work force as a whole.

I am a single Mom and need full time employment so can not do the -just work when I want to- temp kind of positions. (Last one I took just to get some money in they said there was 2 weeks worth of work; I got there and had all the work done in 16 hours!) There is much more that I can say and may later regarding temp companies but I have a child to get ready for school now.

I hate temp companies!

-- OBO (Ihatetemp@companies.com), February 02, 2000.

A skilled worker in todays job market is usually a "hot item", education and skill training will make you "marketable" if there are no major screwups in your documented work history.
Just a general statement, not meant to question you.
I am curious about your beliefs, are you a socialist? The vast majority of people on this forum are independent minded individuals. Asking other individuals for advice on how you can make changes in your approach to 'making a living' will get a much more enthusiastic response. You are obviously articulate, and rather feisty - do you have a hard time with dull bosses? Maybe looking for jobs where you can be expressive and creative might fit your personality better. It sounds like you are going crazy just sitting in a cubicle.

-- Possible Impact (posim@hotmail.com), February 02, 2000.

OBO NONE of us questioned your anything. I simply stated my bride's experience having had to hire 30 people this last couple months and having to do it over again as her company is growing.

NOTHING was personally directed.


-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), February 02, 2000.

Temps are not just the fill-ins while the receptionist is on vacation any more. Certain industries are getting into using temps in a very big way. I can give you three examples.

First, there's an equipment manufacturer which as it's policy, keeps twenty-five percent of its manufacturing workfore as temps. This lets them have a cushion of "readily disposable" personnel if business slumps. "Just get rid of the temps." is their first reaction when business starts to slow. A mass exodus of the temps is also the warning sign for the permanent staff to start polishing resumes.

Second, a certain BIG BLUE computer firm uses almost nothing but temps for its manufacturing workforce. Great cost saver: no benefits to pay for! The supervisors and trainers are permanent employees but the line workers are all temps.

The real screw job for these folks is that they are only contracted for eighteen months and then they are let go once their contract expires. Lest after eighteen months they have to be made permanent employees by company policy. And those persons will not be brought back into any job at Big Blue until one year has passed, so that the eighteen month period has to start all over again.

Thirdly, there's a large aerospace company which has been known to keep people woking in temp positions for years. Seems that corporate is loathe to create new permanent manpower slots outside of management and engineering staffs. But it's willing to fund all the temp positions the plant managers ask for. So people are put into temp slots and kept there until corporate is convinced that their slot is indeed a long-term position. But the wages are good enough that folks will wait as long as four years to rollover to permanent. WW

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), February 02, 2000.

Wildweasel's post is a good example of how the temp companies have invaded the work force and caused workers (except for CORE staff i.e. manager types) to lose any real job opportunities with benefits, i.e.holiday pay, vacation pay, advancement opportunities, or other perks given to "real" company employees. Not only does the temp employee not have these things but they ususally get at least 20% less pay for the same job as a "regular employee" They are continously given the "crap work" instead of getting the more choice jobs. You can work your butt off and get nowhere as you are a temp. Even if they hire you as temp to hire many let you go just before the perm hire date "due to financial difficulty".

To the post questioning if I am a socialist. Let me ask you a question. Is it socialist when a group of people with a common bond and goal come together to form a joint power source to meet their goals more effectively?

I hate temp companies.


-- OBO (Ihatetemp@companies.com), February 02, 2000.

Ah yes Temp workers.....the new migrant of the 90's :)

So here's the business owner's side of this issue. My company does high end computer support for the Fortune 30 players. We've been at some sites for 3 plus years doing support work. I pay my folks damn good salaries, cover their medical, vacations, etc. and I make a very nice living for myself on top of it!! Yet we are looked at as temps, contractors, pick your title, by the folks we work with. My attitude? So f***ing what!! The "real" employees we work with come in at 9:00am, have latte's at 9:30, lunch from 11:30 to 1:00, out at 3:00 to pick up the kiddies. They wouldn't last 5 minutes out in the "real world" where folks actually work for a living!! I've got more work than I can accept because we actually do something!

I encourage my folks to be a little standoffish in their dealings with the real employees. Why? Because I want my staff to be proud of what they do and not settle for second best. We don't get involved in their internal politics, company group hug sessions, etc. When we're done with a project we move on to the next one. Big companies like us because we get the job done with no excuses. Lest anyone think I haven't had experience in the Big outfits let me say I spent 20 years at one that started in a garage. I decided I could do it better and make a better living and give people jobs.

I've used the temp agencies but only for checking out potential new employees. I don't like them I get another. With todays attitude of "you owe me" it is easier to screen out the losers that way and find people you can provide opportunity for. Yep the temp agencies have done a dis-service to folks in the labor market. It is a result however of the drive for the bottom line and shareholder value mindset that has happened in the last 10 years. Who's fault is that...ours, the stock buyers, the mutual fund buyers, the upwardly mobile generation that we are part of. Is it right? Not in my mind but that's the way it currently is so I deal with it and try to do the best I can for my troops.

just another greying business guy...

-- (watcher@yahoo.com), February 02, 2000.


Thanks for your honest post. However, re: "The "real" employees we work with come in at 9:00am, have latte's at 9:30, lunch from 11:30 to 1:00, out at 3:00 to pick up the kiddies. They wouldn't last 5 minutes out in the "real world" where folks actually work for a living!! I've got more work than I can accept because we actually do something!"

I have never had a job like that. I have always worked too. The only ones I know who get lunches like that are executives or the girl down the hall sleeping with the VP (sorry not sexist just have not known a guy personally yet who slept his way to easy street).

Maybe "IT" work is different. I know IT guys/gals sure the heck make more $$$ than most of the other office staff; sometimes wish I had studied Computer Science instead :-)


-- OBO (Ihatetemp@companies.com), February 02, 2000.

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