To all,

As you're probably aware by now, I have become a lightning rod for criticism in the thread I started called, "A plea for reconciliation and acceptance."

Even after I had done all I could do on that thread to stop the damage I had done, I am still being subjected to a torrent of criticism. Maybe it's well-deserved. If you want to see a nice new nickname for me (amid many others) that'll probably stick, and my psychological profile, please see the thread.

Because of my humiliation, I'm leaving the forum for a while. Maybe for good -- I don't know. I love this place and the people -- I could never say goodbye for good. And I started to have lots of fun in the chatrooms, too. I guess I'll have to hang that up as well. I do know of some people who'd love to see me gone.

Well, I can say I've had one of the more memorable times of my life here; I can't thank y'all enough for it. Diane, Chuck , et al and Phillip G. -- fantastic job. And the rest of you folks -- I can't mention names, because there are just too many wonderful people -- I'd be too afraid of leaving someone out. But I'll probably be lurking, and if I see a thread that I can't resist, maybe I'll jump in again sometime.

Good luck to you all,

-- eve (123@4567.com), February 01, 2000

Answers

Eve,

Really wish you'd stay. Your heart was in the right place.

Take a breather, take a long walk, take a time out. Then "do" return and help us create the "newly" changing... TBY2K.

*Smile*

Diane, another "lightning" rod

(Advice: Don't sweat the small stuff. Wisdom: It's all small stuff).

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), February 01, 2000.

Eve,

Sorry to see you hurt, and that you feel need to leave this forum, however, it's a given fact that there are many small-minded people, biased, hyper-critical, bigoted, and in many instances take a reactionary stance to any post, merely to inflate their own egos. Many of the corse comments made on these forums, are by those who wouldn't dare say the same thing to friends or relatives. These forums are an outlet for them. As a general rule, they are ill-informed, negative, and evince a very purile mentality. They'll post anything for "shock" value. It's gets them the attention they lack and crave.

That's the negative side.

On the positive, there are a vast majority that are adult, inteligent, and only passing on information for the benefit of all. No strings. No psychosis, no axes to grind. If opinions are put forth, it's up to each individual to sort through and come to their own decisions. No one is holding a gun to my head when it comes to forming my own opinion. I'll think for myself. And, there is more up-to-minute news and information here than is carried by our national media. In fact most of it never makes the news.

I agree with the suggeston given to you to take a breather. Then come back.

-- Richard (Astral-Acres@webtv.net), February 01, 2000.

Eve, You should not leave because of a few who are hostile and narrow minded. We at debunker are not that bad and for some here to use ladylogic as an example of us is unfair, we did not approve of her actions and even closed down debunker early because of those actions.

You were right that we can get along, some here would do well to learn that their anal retentive attitudes of demanding everyone think and do as they demand or get flamed would do well to realise that they are driving of nice decent people like eve by their actions.

Too bad, hatrid for some "percieved" enemies has to cause such a nice person so much pain.

Eve, my e-mail is real, write me and you can join us when we move to a new home. We are not as bad as has been stated here, they use examples of those who are extremests, not the majoriry of us.

We never tried to bring down TB2000, and felt we did not need to either, you are doing a good job of doing it to your selves.

You should really stand back and see how you look to the rest of the world.

Eve, I for one (I know there are others) appreciate your effort to brak down the barriers between these two groups of people :o)

-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), February 01, 2000.

Sorry to see you leave, eve, but it's probably for the best. Go in peace.

-- (richardM@felten.org), February 01, 2000.

Oh for pete's sake... Here eve attempts some kind words towards reconciliation and gets attacked and driven away (by those who are supposedly on her side) because she doesn't see the point of constant anger and vitriol?

Eve, if you truly don't post again, I'll be very sorry to see you go. You don't seem to be on the same side of the Y2K issue as I, but I don't think there's anyone on this board who deserves more respect. The postings in the "great deception" thread alone changed my ideas about the level of discourse a forum like this is capable of hosting. (I *still* have to re-read some of Interested Spectators' posts, though, the logic that escaped me the first couple times through is probably worth it :^)

Anyway, I predict you'll be back to breath life into those few threads that occasionally deserve it, time and again. I'll be glad for that.

-- Bemused (and_amazed@you.people), February 01, 2000.

Eve,

Cheer up mate...here Eve...have an apple.... LOL ;-) (trying to make you laugh...it's good medicine).

Hey...I'm still here and look what happened to me...I put up a post on Debunkers and I was told in all caps to go stick my head in the toilet and flush, etc. LOL And what about my post about Jack Schitt...got a cyber black eye for that one too!

And then I put up a post once and somebody asked "what the hell I posted that for!" then proceeded to use my post as an example of a forum that was declining. LOL Heck...I'm still a damn "Polloomer" and I put up a post here and there and WHACK!!!! Well Excuuuuuuuse meeeeee...I didn't see the sign.... LOL

Well, if ya need to take a breather then you know what's best for *you*, but I for one will miss your posts.

It's not a matter of good people vs bad people...it's good behavior or bad behavior, and good people can still behave badly at times and visa versa. Such is the forum of life.

You jumped into a "ring of fire", but you forgot to put on your asbestos britches. LOL It's okay...remember Bach: "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands...."

Best wishes to you...hope to see you back! =)

-- Dee (T1Colt556@aol.com), February 01, 2000.

Eve:

I didn't even know about the thread until you posted this one. If that thread has made you post this here, I'm going to save my time and not bother reading it as there can't be anything of value in there.

However I would like to reconsider your decision to leave, and not do so. As has been said in the past "A wise man changes his mind". If you'd like to leave tb2000 for a while, I hope you'll at least stay in the Great Deception thread.

I just posted something there and I'm hoping Garry will reply as I'm going to take the discussion in a whole new direction which I think is going to make everybody there sit up and think at the very least. I'd hate to see you miss that, after all we've been through there for about a month now, and as soon as Gregg replies my first post is already drafted and it is addressed to you and Gregg.

So I hope and pray you'll stick around. But if not I wish you well in your search for the Truth, and pray that you find what it is you are looking for.

If what I posted the Great Deception thread as helped you, even in some small way in that search, then the entire thread has been worth while and I can feel thankfull that, limited as I am in my abilites, God has given me the opportunity to help a fellow human being in something that actually matters for a change.

-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), February 01, 2000.

I meant Gregg, not Garry. Sorry Gregg.

Bemused:

Just saw your comment about my posts. Thank you. Stick around the party's just begining. :)

-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), February 01, 2000.

eve,

Stay! I admire you for what you attempted to do, and it really is a Mitzvah to at least try to bring Peace.

I, too, had hoped that, with one month having passed, that all of us could reach across the Divide and at least make some attempt at reconcilliation. Let us ALL be grateful that we live at a time, and a place, where vigorous debates are still allowed.

eve, I wish you and yours the very best that this, and next, and each succeeding year brings.

Kevin

-- ~~~~ (Losing it @ Lost it .com), February 01, 2000.

Eve, I hope you'll reconsider after some cooling-off (and walking-around-the-block) time. You have as much right as anyone to post an opinion or a thought (while some of the Big Brains apparently can't figure out that there's a "back" button up there to be used as appropriate).

And if you choose not to return, I for one can understand. Cherri may, in the long run, be right that no one else felt a need to bring down TB2000, since we're doing such a good job of doing it to ourselves. We have met the enemy, and he may turn out to be us. (Well, some of us...)

But I do hope you'll reconsider.

-- I'm Here, I'm There (I'm Everywhere@so.beware), February 01, 2000.

Eve, The best thing you can do is leave this forum. You are too touchy and have never contributed diddly. You need to get a life. This board had been a drug for a miserable existence. You have spent way too much time here. He he he he... you really stepped in it this time.

-- (I@spy.com), February 01, 2000.

Cherri:

We are not as bad as has been stated here, they use examples of those who are extremests, not the majoriry of us.

The "majority" of "Debunkers" consists of CPR and his multiple identities, who are all equally vile and repulsive. Most of the rest are hangers-on of no value and less personality, whose only "contribution" is namecalling and jeering about being "right". You're one of the very few exceptions, being sincere (as far as I can tell). The question, of course, is why you would hang around with such losers. But that's something only you can answer.

-- Steve Heller (stheller@koyote.com), February 01, 2000.

I'm sick of the vitriol also.

And it is a shame...just as there are SERIOUS questions about Avionics and whether fly-by-wire aircraft systems really did survive the Rollover, attacks fly with such venom.

It is disgusting...

-- ~~~~ (Losing it @ Lost it .com), February 01, 2000.

Oh, how could I ever leave you guys after this outpouring only a few hours after I posted this thread? I'm really moved by your kindness and support. And there are just too many good, smart, funny people here...(I was honored by your offer, though, Cherrie!)

I do need a breather, though...I'm not sure how long yet.

I do want to clarify why I was moved to post this. Over the past several months, I've been subject to all kinds of abuse. And I've been able to handle it ok -- even all the abuse I took on today's thread. But today, for the very first time, and on that thread, two people decided to kick me when I was down...after I had profusely apologized for my actions.

I thought that was particularly vicious, and it shocked me like nothing I'd ever experienced on this forum before. I had thought we were all above that level of behavior. Well, I've lost a lot of respect for those two. I don't need to point them out -- you can go there and see it for yourselves, and judge for yourselves.

But I'll be back. And thanks again, so very, very much for your kindness.

-- eve (123@4567.com), February 01, 2000.

Not quite sure what you found so shocking over there, eve. It gets pretty "rough and tumble" here, but I would have thought you would have realized that by now. That's just how we are here. Perhaps you can see this as a learning experience.

Be well.

-- (richardM@felten.org), February 01, 2000.

Eve

I would not sweat the small stuff, this is a minor issue you have brought up. It was real trouble at other times. During the beginning of December a poster here decided to wage war on his own while there was an unstable peace between the two boards. Cory (not the H man) spammed the debunkers board and all hell broke out, there was no peace till Chuck came back from vacation and deleted doomer and polly posts that weren't directly On Topic to the thread.

Over the course of the year that I have been here this type of thing has continued. At least two times the Debunkers have been active in getting the forum shut down.

Your peace attempt has to be admired though, it was done with a good heart and sincerly. Those that slammed you should be ashamed.

Some of the folks that did slam you aren't regulars from the past if there names are any indication. They are just as guilty as the posters on the bunker board that stir up shit.

You seem to be a good person and intelligent, it would be a shame for you to leave cause of an innocent error.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), February 01, 2000.

I would like to add one more tid bit. There was a very interesting thread a couple of weeks ago, and as I worked my way down the thread, I came upon a very pornographic flick. If I want porn, I know where to go see it on the internet. Did you get to see it eve? This is just one example out of hundreds that we have had to endure. Never mind who it offends because the offender does not care what you or I think. You really can't expect people who have been here for a very long time to forgive and forget. I think most of the people who post here want to come here to read, learn and interact with each other in a civil way and not have to put up with nonsense. Do you really expect us to open the door for more abuse?

-- bardou (bardou@ballonneyy.xcom), February 01, 2000.

==Eve, hope you didn't consider what I wrote as an attack on you, far from it. It's admirable to be a peace maker, what happened though is that in that past ample opportunity was given to the trolls to "make peace", instead they continued with their terrorism, and you can negotiate with terrorists, anytime, it doesn't work and is counter productive. There is zero "debunking to do" because we are experiencing y2k problems, there has been an increase in coincidental accidents, and it's not over, ergo, they are trolling and spamming by even coming over here. Like I said, no negotiations with terrorists, either in the physical or in cyber space. Believe me, these same cyber stalkers will keep stalking, looking for vulnerable victims and websites to attack, troll, spam and hack. It's not the issues, it's the control and dominance they desire, a power trip, it's sadistic and criminal. Don't be a victim, don't be misled, that was my point.

-- zog (zzoggy@yahoo.com), February 01, 2000.

Eve,

I think it is safe to say that many have gone through what you are experiencing. These two boards (DeBunkers/TB2000) have been like parallel universes with idiots in both camps. Your brand of moderation and thoughtfulness is sorely needed here and you have many kindred souls that will hope you tough it out. You are surely smart enough to see through people like Steve Heller, who is so full of himself that he will burst one of these days. His self-esteem is down there with whale dung and he is desperate to recover his self- proclaimed expert status. You can decide for yourself who the losers are, you dont need one like Heller to direct you. Listen to the good advice that Diane has offered and try not to take any of this too seriously. Hey, where else can you get this much entertainment for free?

-- Sifting (through@the.rubble), February 01, 2000.

At least two times the Debunkers have been active in getting the forum shut down.

This forum got shut down by the people of this forum, not by debunkers. just ask Diane. Geeze, it does not help when you keep posting incorrect information.

Eve, the offer still stands, and you can e-mail me if you want to.

-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), February 01, 2000.

Cherri

Doc and other members of the Debunk forum have been active in getting MIT and Phil to shut down the forum.

You are correct of course in a manner of speaking, Ed almost shut it down in June and Phil (not a member of the forum but site management) at the end of December.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), February 01, 2000.

Rubble: You are surely smart enough to see through people like Steve Heller, who is so full of himself that he will burst one of these days. His self-esteem is down there with whale dung and he is desperate to recover his self- proclaimed expert status. You can decide for yourself who the losers are, you dont need one like Heller to direct you.

Another vicious and senseless attack from an anonymous troll. I must be doing something right to attract so much venom from such losers!

-- Steve Heller (stheller@koyote.com), February 01, 2000.

eve...

.....If you leave, this forum will certainly be a lesser place.

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), February 01, 2000.

Hey Eve -

How should you indulge in "hurt" or humiliation before a virtual community that has never seen nor met you? Leave if you want, or lurk under another name, but SHEEESH!! let's please not pretend there's any "place" here to "leave" etc. etc. A "virtual" community begets only "virtual" relationships, "virtual" praise and "virtual" insult. Only you can make it real. No one "here" is expereiencing you humiliation with you -- we're all just cruising alpong looking for the best information available. And your idea was not real welcome to others who have been "hurt" by the trolls.

Remember how "sensitive" you were when I jumped on your wood-bread recipes? Egad!!! I still think the idea merits a thrashing. But heck -- it's not as if I can stalk you or taunt you walking down your neighborhood avenues, saying "EVE!! bake me some wood-bread muffins, Eve!!" And we got over it, thereafter. Became "virtual" passing acquaintances .......

Anyway, just like the wood-bread thing: get over it. Move on. This is your forum as much as anybody's, and you have the right to have your ideas destroyed just as much as I do. Love ya.

>"<

-- Squirrel Hunter (nuts@upina.cellrelaytower), February 01, 2000.

C'mon,Eve. I'm speaking for our little consortium of wild ass old duffers here in the baddest of the badlands. Every time we post our fingers shake! Forget anonymity!!! When we get flamed or ignored it's worse than being a toddler whose been placed in the corner.Utter humiliation and dejection. But we come back because we see that here all participants' ideas have merit and if people didn't consider them, they wouldn't bother to put them down ( or ignore them?). Hang around that nice campfire that was posted this week-end. It's a big, dark forest and all of us are contributing to discovering a path that takes us home.

-- mike in houston (mmorris67@hotmail.com), February 01, 2000.

Everyone I know, when we were just 3 or 4 year old brats, were taught...

"sticks and stones can break my bones, but names can never hurt me"

Keep fighting the good fight and quit being such a wussy Eve. :-)

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), February 01, 2000.

Ok, I practically swore I wasn't going say what I'm about to, but zog's post forced my hand.

zog, you were wondering if I had referred to your post in mentioning the ones that had been especially painful for me to see.

Well, zog, your post was fine. But when I read about your concern in this thread, and seeing that others also were unsure about who these people were, I decided I had no choice but mention their names.

One was Hokie's, who apparently felt he had me all sized up psychologically. He has now said he's finally read the whole thread and has posted an explanation a short while ago on the other thread.

The other was bardou. In her post she christened me with a new moniker: "naive eve". The quotes were hers. She even took care to repeat it in her post. Especially since this came from a well known, apparently popular forum poster, it was painful and humiliating for me to see, and to know that many others had seen it as well. Even then I probably would have blown it off, except for the fact that she did it after I had profusely apologized, and in the midst of my asking people for help in how I could lessen any damage I had done.

Some of you may feel I'm being too sensitive, and that it's small stuff. Just keep in mind the context, and that there was stuff I did put up with, without complaining. Look up the two threads I spent defending some of Paul Milne's comments, for starters. If you think you know insults, they'll give you pause. If you want to see them, let me know -- I'll try to look them up for you. Or just re-read what I went through today.

And in answer to those who would say that I'm probably just a complainer -- I'll just let my posts over the last several months speak for themselves.

I'm a little exhausted now, so I do need a break, but, as I said before, I'll shake this off and be back -- for sure; probably within the week.

I'd also like to thank all the rest of you lovely people who've come here to give me a heapin' dose of your sweet kindness...

-- eve (123@4567.com), February 01, 2000.

Eve, though your intentions were noble, they sounded naive. I won't apologize, I only wished you had experienced what many of us have the last 2 years. What I called you was not derogatory in anyway, it is how I summed up your post. What damage? I think you should have thought your post through before posting, and even though you apologized, it doesn't change the damage that the trolls have caused here.

-- bardou (bardou@baloneyyy.xcom), February 01, 2000.

Like I said eve, that was pretty standard stuff you read all the time on this board. It's unfortunate that you were so surprised by it, but perhaps now you'll be more prepared for the next time that it happens.

-- (richardM@felten.org), February 01, 2000.

bardou,

So you honestly see no difference in calling me naive, which would have been perfectly fine, and how you actually put it?

-- eve (123@4567.com), February 01, 2000.

No, I don't see the difference Eve. Many others have tried to do the "we are the world," thing and we are still the same world. As I posted before, people who come here to disrupt don't give a hoot what you or I think. Maybe you could have saved the Debunker site from going down with your reasoning you posted here originally. I wonder what kind of response you would have received.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), February 01, 2000.

Eve, ya gotta admit this is much cheaper and more effective than a real-life psychotherapist huh?

-- Kyle (fordtbonly@aol.com), February 01, 2000.

bardou,

I'll try to clarify this for you. Do you feel that giving me a nickname of "naive eve", in quotes, as you put it, and repeating it, was no different from simply calling me naive instead?

I realize you said you saw no difference in your last post, but because you followed it up with something that had absolutely nothing to do with what I was asking, I felt that perhaps you misunderstood my question.

Forget the rest of your other comments for now -- I'm not disagreeing with any of the rest of it.

Just answer my question. And an explanation would be nice.

-- eve (123@4567.com), February 01, 2000.

I answered you eve, read my posts again.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), February 02, 2000.

bardou,

That's ok, bardou. I won't ask you again. In a way, I think I found out enough.

-- eve (123@4567.com), February 02, 2000.

Hi all,

I need to say to y'all that I would love to respond to each of you individually, but my energy is at a low ebb right now and with many of you I'm afraid once I started, I wouldn't know where or how to stop.

Just know that your messages have touched and moved me more and in more ways than you'll ever know. And know that I have rarely experienced such an overwhelming flow of kindness and support, from so many people who I respect and care very deeply about.

With love,

-- eve (123@4567.com), February 02, 2000.

A special message to those of you that I don't know so well...

To see messages like these -- yes, even the ones where you didn't say much -- from people that I have to say I don't really know or know well -- just know you added to the size of the lump in my throat and caused a little extra dampness around my eyes. What sweet surprises you've given me...

-- eve (123@4567.com), February 02, 2000.

What did you expect when you started this thread?

-- kritter (kritter@adelphia.net), February 02, 2000.

kritter,

The reason I started this thread was that I'm currently involved in many discussions on various threads where people were, or may have been, waiting for responses from me. And this was a way to let them all know at once that I would not be responding for a while.

And I felt they deserved to know why.

-- eve (123@4567.com), February 02, 2000.

Cherri,

I'm honored to get your invite. Maybe I'll check it out -- I'll let you know. And who knows...maybe I'll end up using them all, from time to time.

-- eve (123@4567.com), February 02, 2000.

Eve, the reason you started this thread was to redeem yourself because you became "a lightning rod for criticism in the thread I started called, 'A plea for reconciliation and acceptance.'" I feel that since you started the thread, people have the right to respond to it. The best you can do now if you don't want to hear any more criticism, is to ask the Sysops to delete both posts.

-- bardou (bardou@ballonney.xcom), February 02, 2000.

Good point, bardou. I agree.

-- (richardM@felten.org), February 02, 2000.

Although I've only been 'lurking' with these threads re: eve, I for one agree with Bardou. Bardou has been here a Very long time and is a sensible poster. At the risk of being flamed, lets just do as Bardou suggested and end it already... Enough is enough. Eve, I accept your apology, but one thread could have been enough. You sound as if you are depressed and perhaps you need some time off. I just dont understand how you take the internet personally. I think its a scream, and hey, it is something to do at work in 'downtime'. I have been yelled at and flamed many times, so what? All are entitled to their thoughts, and you gave yours. Having read many of the posts by LL and others who have been deleted, Sysops were correct to do so...The redundancy alone was tiresome. Just my thoughts....good luck to ya.

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), February 02, 2000.

bardou,

If you feel that the reason I gave for starting this thread was a lie, that's your prerogative. Since my respect for you has fallen precipitously in the last day or so, I really don't care anymore.

I had asked Diane in the middle of the last thread to delete it. She chose to keep it.

As far as this thread goes, the sysops should do what they feel is best, and I wouldn't fight them on it. I see no reason to ask them to delete it, though. If you don't like this thread, you're free not to read it.

richard, consumer,

Hopefully I answered your concerns above.

-- eve (123@4567.com), February 02, 2000.

Since we are talking about respect for one another eve, here's something you wrote over at Debonkers the other day:

"I have nothing but respect for the majority of you, and I invite you over to TB2K to join us in lots of interesting discussions that are going on right now."

http://stand77.com/wwwboard/messages/12973.html

I don't need your respect eve when you respect and invite disruptors here to abuse us some more. BTW, didn't you say that some of those people scared you? Bardou

-- bardou (bardou@balonney.xcom), February 02, 2000.

bardou,

The majority I had had direct experience with and had read, at that point in time, I did respect.

There were and are some that scare me.

So, what's the problem, again?

-- eve (123@4567.com), February 02, 2000.

Silly, silly girls. Making a mountain out of a molehill. Surely you can think of something more interesting to discuss?

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), February 02, 2000.

Peace ladies. Please.

(And just don't make it a "piece" of the Sysops).

*Engaging Grin*

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), February 02, 2000.

Bardou,

My olive branch is out to you...

-- eve (123@4567.com), February 02, 2000.

eve, maybe it's time you moved on.

-- (richardM@felten.org), February 02, 2000.

Diane,

If you choose to delete this thread, my only request is that you first allow zog time to see my explanation to him that my initial problem had nothing to do with his post on the other thread, which I thought was fine. Thanks.

zog...are you out there?

-- eve (123@4567.com), February 02, 2000.

Diane,

On second thought, I could post my message to zog on a new thread, but that could start another chain reaction... :)

-- eve (123@4567.com), February 02, 2000.

eve:

I think you'll help yourself by taking your break.

Let those who want to carry on here do so. You are not going to convince them and they are not going to convince you. You can't please everybody and that is the nature of humanity. By continuing to respond to those against you, you tell the world that you give them credibility and that they have something of value that is worth responding to and that even make others who didn't care sit up and pay attention. Look at Ed Yourdon, for example. He doesn't respond to every comment made against him. In fact many have told him, not to even respond for this very reason I'm giving you.

-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), February 02, 2000.

Eve, it looks as if the debunkers have moved over to the Gary North is a Big Fat Idiot forum, which is run by someone whose name you probably recognize from Debunking Y2K and this forum too--Paul Davis. You might want to lurk and post over there for a while, get to know the Debunkers a little better.

Big Fat Idiot

"The battle is over. Gary North lost. Big time. Celebrate this as a victory over the power of Satan.

Let the whole world know what a discredited Big Fat Idiot you think he is."

However, I'm not sure you'll find the peace and reconciliation you seek.

Click here to see the main site and a special gloat message."

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), February 02, 2000.

Hey again...I agree with Interested Spec who is now at ringside , I do have an 'honest' question (understanding the risk involved ahh so what I'm throwing myself out here ) are you really eve? I have read alot of your prior threads and you didnt appear to be so overly sensitive and indecisive. I'm not trying to hurt you, but please look over your recent posts, you DO need a break....Take one, I will be the first to stand in sincerity and wish you well and also be the first to say hi when you come back.....

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), February 02, 2000.

consumer,

To respond to consumer and others who feel that I've been too sensitive and indecisive, and I don't seem myself:

Believe it or not, there's a real human being behind my posts: And guess what? As one, I'm not one-dimensional. Once in a while, my emotions do get the best of me. And if you want me to take care to hide that fact from every single post, then feel free to skip over my posts, or deal with it. Because, like it or not, I'm here to stay, and I'm not going to change who I am.

Consumer, let me ask you something for once: I offered an olive branch... Why is it that you can't seem to let this go?

Old Git, Interested Spectator,

I appreciate your input. Thanks.

And, I.S., as long as the poster is relatively civil, if my character is attacked, and I think that it could raise a question in someone's eyes, I will respond. Sure it could be baiting, etc. -- but you know, right or wrong, again, this is part of who I am.

-- eve (123@4567.com), February 02, 2000.

Ok, now the gloves are on...Eve...what do you mean Let GO of What? I tried to be kind and sensitive to you. You have been whimpering around here for the past 3 days. When you DID receive postive imput, you go on the defensive and attack, Wuz up with that??? Better yet, dont even bother with responding you do sooo much better making your little whiney appeals to everyone else for pity. Now, no more will you receive postitive imput from me. You stated you were taking a break yet you just said you were here to stay....Define indecision eve. As for the olive branch? nice try. Another feeble self seeking pity me attempt. Can ANYONE say CODEPENDENT? ====thanks for allowing me to vent.

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), February 02, 2000.

Dittos Consumer. Eve, even you said "I am still being subjected to a torrent of criticism. Maybe it's well-deserved." Maybe you should take some of the poster's advice and take a little vacation from TB2000. The more you keep posting and clawing at people, the more your going to be "subjected to a torrent of criticism." And I do agree with you, "it's well-deserved." Bardou

-- bardou (bardou@baloneyyy.xcom), February 02, 2000.

Oh for crying out loud, eve, enough already!! Look at the message at the top of the thread. You know what that is? It's a GOODBYE message. You posted it YESTERDAY. You told everyone how hurt and humiliated you felt and that you were taking a break. You told people SEVERAL TIMES how you wouldn't be able to respond to their messages. And yet you're STILL HERE?!?!?!

Honestly, it really is starting to look like you're just trying to get more sympathy votes. You whine about you're leaving from all the "abuse" and everyone cries out for you to stay. It's really starting to look pathetic. As I already said, your situation was hardly unique, this is the way people ARE here. I still don't understand how you couldn't have seen how this place works in all the time you've been here. Seriously, you're starting to exhibit some clear "LadyLogic" type behavior here, starting arguments, offering tearful apologies, then starting MORE arguments, making a big goodbye speech, and then MORE arguments! I mean please, this professional victim act is getting really old.

eve, if you want to go, then GO. Take your break. Enjoy your life. If you want to stay, then STAY. Just make up your mind already and stop trying to blame everyone else for your situation.

-- (richardM@felten.org), February 02, 2000.

To all,

Interested Spectator, I'm going to take your advice -- it looks like I'm being baited and that it's not going to go away.

As of this post, I will leave this thread. It's time to move on. Hopefully, certain others will take this advice as well.

-- eve (123@4567.com), February 02, 2000.

Baited? I dont think so., but again, nice try....

Seems to me you always must have the last word.

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), February 03, 2000.