THE ATLANTA BRAVES reliever also was fined $20,000 and ordered to undergo sensitivity training for disparaging foreigners, homosexuals and minorities in a magazine interview. The players union said it intends to fight the ruling. Major league baseball takes seriously its role as an American institution and the important social responsibility that goes with it, Selig said. We will not dodge our responsibility. Mr. Rocker should understand that his remarks offended practically every element of society and brought dishonor to himself, the Atlanta Braves and major league baseball. The terrible example set by Mr. Rocker is not what our great game is about and, in fact, is a profound breach of the social compact we hold in such high regard. The players association said it expects to file a grievance over the penalty, believed to be the longest against a baseball player for an action not related to drug use since Lenny Randle of Texas got 30 days in March 1977 for punching his manager, Frank Lucchesi. I do not believe it is appropriate that I should be harshly disciplined for my misguided speech unaccompanied by any conduct on my part, Rocker said in a statement released by his agents. I have previously apologized for my unfortunate remarks and stand by my apology.

Ventre: Baseball makes Rocker a scapegoat

A grievance would force the matter before Shaym Das, the sports new independent arbitrator. Advertisement

We have been in consultation with Mr. Rocker and it is our present intention to appeal, said Gene Orza, the unions No. 2 official. It is literally unprecedented to impose a penalty on a player for pure speech, offensive though the speech may be. That, coupled with the magnitude of the penalty, just as unprecedented, makes us optimistic about the outcome of the appeal. With the season to start April 3, the suspension technically is to last 28 days. A suspension will not affect his salary, expected to be between $200,000 and $300,000. Rocker may go to extended spring training starting April 3 and will be allowed to pitch in the minor leagues during the first month of the season. It really is about what I anticipated happening, Braves general manager John Schuerholz said of the penalty. The 25-year-old pitcher was barred from joining the Braves at spring training. A high-ranking baseball official, speaking on the condition he not be identified, said the commissioners office did not want Rocker to report with other Braves pitchers and catchers, thus minimizing the number of media descending on Kissimmee, Fla., when camp opens Feb. 17. Rob Manfred, baseballs executive vice president for labor relations, disputed that, saying it was not a factor.

A full section on baseball

Braves president Kasten said he hoped Rocker will not appeal. I hope we can separate the legal ramifications from John personally, Kasten said. Its most important to get through this thing and get through it successfully. Thats much more important than winning a couple of days. Rockers comments drew a strong response from Braves executive Hank Aaron and civil rights groups. Several Braves players have said they expect Rocker to have a difficult time when he rejoins the team. We believe that even after this process is complete, there are still two hurdles that remain, Kasten said. John still has to reconcile himself with his teammates. After that, he has to reconcile himself with the community. Its not automatic. But with the right effort and the right attitude, I think its possible. The pitcher, whose fine will go to groups that promote diversity, was ordered by Selig on Jan. 6 to undergo psychological tests, but the results of those tests have not been disclosed. Kasten and Schuerholz met about two weeks ago with seven senior members of the NL champions. The consensus in that room was that while they believed John should be punished in some fashion, they were willing to give him a second chance as a teammate, Schuerholz said. But he must redeem himself and rectify the wrongs he has done. Rocker said in a Sports Illustrated story published last month that he would never play for a New York team because he didnt want to ride a subway train next to some queer with AIDS. He also said, Im not a very big fan of foreigners. ... How the hell did they get in this country? He also called a black teammate a fat monkey. Braves owner Ted Turner has said Rocker deserves a second chance, and pointed out the reliever had apologized. I dont think we ought to hold it against him forever, Turner said. He didnt commit a crime. Rocker told ESPN last month that he had lost his cool and said things he didnt mean about New York fans because he wanted to inflict some emotional pain in retaliation to the pain that had been inflicted on me. Rocker said he was frustrated by Yankees fans who threw batteries at him during the World Series. He said Mets fans spit in his face and poured beer on him during the playoffs.

-- Vern (bacon17@ibm.net), January 31, 2000

Answers

who's next? and what kind of punishment is next? and for saying "what" is next? This is bullshit!

-- Vern (bacon17@ibm.net), January 31, 2000.

Did baseball "Let Down" Rocker?

... what would have happened if Rocker had instead picked up the batteries and hurled them at the a$$holes throwing them?

What was done to these folks? Did THEY apologize? Pay fines? Go to sensitivity training?

Season ticket holders could uh loose their seats until they verify having paid their legal dept to society (assault and *battery* is a crime), then document having successfully completed sensitivity training.

What was done to these criminals? NOTHING! Why?

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), January 31, 2000.

Vern,

You're confusing the difference between the freedom to speak and the freedom to associate. You see, Major League Baseball can't stop him from making stupid remarks like he did. He was free to make them. But that doesn't mean that Major League Baseball has to continue their association with him if he ceases to well represent the organization. Baseball's choice to serve him with consequences for his actions doesn't impact his rights as an American to freely speak - it does, however, impact his privilege to belong to a private group. Rocker can continue to make these comments - it's just that he'll sooner do it as a bag boy at a Winn-Dixie than he will for Major League Baseball. In America, no one can force me, or Baseball, to associate with a bigot if I choose otherwise.

-- Brett (savvydad@netins.net), January 31, 2000.

If I were to say what he said at my place of work, there would be consequences, as there would be in many places. Rocker's attitude and words serve to continue hatred, and yes he can say whatever he wants- you cannot be arrested for saying what he did-but are you upset because you agree with him, Vern-Do you want us to go back to lynching the niggers and deporting those immigrant bastards? Or maybe we should round up all the fags and shoot them on sight??

I'm sorry, but there is enough hatred, and there are and will always be "limits" to free speech. I can file a legal complaint against a co- worker for sexually discriminating remarks, or against a neighbor for terroristic threats. I wish I understood people like you, Vern-I do not. This guy deserves punishment. Hate and hate crimes must be stamped out-or do you believe they did not drag that nigger far enough in that pick-up truck last year?

-- ihatehatespeech (offmy@rocker.com), January 31, 2000.

Poor guy Rocker.......let him shoot his mouth off. Who cares? I care as much about Rocker's mouth as I care about Elian's grammas

-- Kyle (fordtbonly@aol.com), January 31, 2000.

Every group Rocker dissed is represented on the teams he'll be pitching to this season. And in his own dugout, for that matter.

How many beanballs will he have to dodge this season?

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), January 31, 2000.

Kyle

Who cares? How about the oppressed groups to which he referred? Are you a white male? If he was mouthing off in my presence he would be told to leave. It is precisely because we often tolerate this bigotry that bigotry continues. Let him mouth off?? Don't you think many people let those guys that dragged that african-american man on the back of their truck mouth off? Don't the people who committ hate crimes mouth-off? Apathy allows our fellow americans to perpetrate atrocities. It's too bad you could not be recruited to join the cause to stamp out oppression. I will pray for you.

-- Ihatehatespeech (offmy@rocker.com), January 31, 2000.

And I quote a poster "I can file a legal complaint against a co- worker for sexually discriminating remarks, or against a neighbor for terroristic threats."

Anybody see the problem here? Keep thinking, you'll get it.

-- (watcher@yahoo.com), February 01, 2000.

Here's Joe Sobran's take on this issue - I agree with him completely.

Robert Bright

January 13, 2000

The John Rocker case continues to reverberate. Rocker is of course the Atlanta Braves pitcher who, late in the twentieth century, caused an uproar by describing New York City unflatteringly. The ethnic-touchiness lobbies took it very hard and demanded his head on a pike.

Major League Baseballs commissioner, Bud Selig, was unable to deliver Rockers head physically, but he did decree that said head be examined, sentencing Rocker to the humiliation of psychological testing, after which, he hinted, he might take further punitive measures.

Selig took a leaf from Soviet psychiatry by stigmatizing Rockers views as symptoms of mental illness. Rocker hadnt broken any known rule of baseball, let alone any law. He apologized for any offense he had given, and later explained that he was avenging himself (a little excessively, he admitted) for the rude treatment he has received from New Yorks fans, who arent especially renowned for gallant sportsmanship: in addition to the normal verbal abuse, Rocker said, they have spat and poured beer on him, and in one instance hit him with a thrown battery.

But its already treated as established fact that Rockers remarks were racist and bigoted. What did he actually say?

Well, he grumbled about foreigners, noting that you can walk a whole block in New York without hearing English spoken. Just what is racially invidious about that?

His most inflammatory sentence was this one: Imagine having to take the 7 train to the ballpark, looking like youre [in] Beirut next to some kid with purple hair next to some queer with AIDS right next to some dude who just got out of jail for the fourth time right next to some 20-year-old mom with four kids. Its depressing.

Racist? The people he describes could all be white. The ones with purple hair could hardly be otherwise. If there is anything racist, its the assumption that any mention of crime and illegitimacy must refer to racial minorities  who are entitled to take offense at any acknowledgment of certain behavior patterns that are both obvious and statistically verifiable. And if you dont practice the prescribed double-think, you need your head examined.

A Lebanese-American friend of mine who grew up in New York took exception only to Rockers comparison of New York to Beirut. That aside, he thought it was a perfectly accurate description of the New York he knows. It certainly matches the New York you read about every day in the same New York tabloids that blasted Rocker as a bigot.

One thinks of the wry remark of Shakespeares earthy soldier Enobarbus, when Mark Antony rebukes him for his bluntness: That truth should be silent I had almost forgot.

The old liberalism didnt demand conformity of thought and feeling. It demanded only that the law treat everyone alike, regardless of race, creed, and color. It honored freedom of thought and opinion, however eccentric, because individual freedom was the whole point of racial equality itself.

The newer liberalism wants to reduce society to a collectivist horde in which even personal thoughts and feelings are subject to state supervision and correction. It permits no private reservations about its agenda.

There are no clear rules; its up to the individual to avoid even incurring suspicion. Loose accusations of bigotry are the norm, because being accused is in itself evidence of guilt. Naturally, there are no penalties for making false charges, because, as in the Soviet Union, even false charges help maintain the general discipline of fear.

Under the new liberalism, the entire population must be kept in a state of constant intimidation, unsure of what the individual is permitted to do and having to guess what the rules mean and how they will be enforced. This marks a deep change from the days when Americans assumed they were free to do anything the law didnt explicitly forbid.

Of course this principle isnt applied consistently. Major League Baseball has taken no disciplinary action against the owner of Rockers team, Ted Turner, for his insulting jokes about Catholics and Christianity last year. Nor did liberals cry out against Turners bigotry; in fact, his liberal audience laughed.

Joseph Sobran

-- robert bright (roosterbos@go.com), February 01, 2000.

'Ihatehatespeech', yep I hate what he said. But news? NO! I do hate it being a big story like Elian and his grammas. Hey, buddy I like black women....am I a reverse racist? OH Hell, who gives a damn?

-- Kyle (fordtbonly@aol.com), February 01, 2000.

I appreciate most posts here....but I ain't a joiner. I avoid the 'christian right' and the 'christian left'. Ummmmm....maybe Jesus will answer my prayer....at least I hope so.

-- Kyle (fordtbonly@aol.com), February 01, 2000.

Ihatespeech:

With all due respect, it is the height of naivete to think that "punishing" or sending someone to "sensitivity training" is going to do anything more than make the people that sent him there feel better. It sure as hell isn't going to change *him*.

Contrary to modern liberal thinking, you can't change the way someone thinks just by punishing him. All you are going to do is make him/her hate even more due to the fact you are trying to control and manipulate him. I would.

I agree with a previous poster, though, who said that he is a representative of the baseball team and they can discipline him *because* he is a representative and what he says reflects on the team. But to think you even have the *ability* to "stamp out" hate is about as "pie in the sky" thinking as I have ever seen.

IMHO, the best way to deal with someone who is racist, etc is just to ignore them. My God, what ever happened to "sticks and stones ..."? It only upsets you so much because you *let* it. If I had a dime for every time I heard the word "honky" or "white trash" on TV or at the movies, I'd be a rich man. Do you think that is a term of endearment? It is just the black's way of calling us niggers. So what? For me to suggest sending them to "sensitivity training" would be laughable - and rightly so. It simply doesn't bother me.

Speech alone never caused harm to anyone unless they "decide" that it harmed them somehow. To equate this with the dragging incident is ridiculous. One is words, the other actions - big, big difference.

How many times have you heard in the news about someone being arrested for some kind of disgusting, grisly mass-murder, etc and when the neighbors were interviewed they said the person was "quiet, shy and kept to him/herself"? Words and actions rarely have much to do with each other, and trying to suppress words alone is only going to piss the person off more.

Your idea sounds good if you say it quick, but in real life it will either not work or bring about the opposite of what you are trying to achieve. Hate, like prostitution, has been around a *long* time, and "wishing" it would go away or punishing someone for their thoughts won't make it so. It will always be here. It is in our nature. Live with it.

I don't mean to start a fight. It's just that I know how *I* would feel if I were "punished" or sent to "sensitivity training" for something I said, and if you think for one minute that it would somehow miraculously "change" or "educate" me into thinking differently, believe me - you are *sadly* mistaken. It would be a joke to me - at best! Like I said at the beginning, it will only make *you* feel better - it will have *accomplished* nothing.

The whole *idea* of free speech is to protect people from those who *disagree* with them. By saying that someone should be punished for excercising that right, you truly, truly don't understand the meaning to begin with. Punishing someone for nothing more than speaking will sound like a wonderful idea to you, right up until the day when someone doesn't like what *you* say, and claims that *you* must be punished for it. Then it ain't so great.

-- Steve Baxter (chicoqh@home.com), February 01, 2000.

Hahahhaahha!!!! And just what did Rocker say that was not true?

He was guilty of "political incorrectness" at worst, but honesty at best.

-- Birdlady (Birdlady@nest.home), February 01, 2000.

For goodness sakes. I'm Southern and while I was in the Navy I don't know how many times I was laughed at because of the way I talked. It seems like I was considered stupid and a member of the KKK by every person I met who was from up North.

I finally figured out that the problem wasn't with me, I was fine with who I was. The problem lies with those who opinion of others is actually a reflection of their own lack of self esteem in who they are. IMO anyway.

When someone would ask me if I was in the KKK, I would say no but my uncle is, and that he was also my daddy. That usually shut them up, or cracked them up. Either way it worked for me.

After I got back home I married my first cousin and I just forgot about it. I do wish though I could get this damn trailer paid off, we are dying to move to a double wide.

-- ~***~ (~***~@earth.ebe), February 01, 2000.

Folks, Y'all are missing a salient point.

Ever read a major league (choose the sport) contract. there are clauses in there that make the signer's conduct an issue if it damages the image of the sport, and it includes penalties. When you sign the contract, the strictures are AGREED TO!!!

consequences are what happens when the contract is enforced.

C

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), February 01, 2000.

The contract notwithstanding (which I agree is likely the "end of discussion" moment vis-a-vis the -legal- implications of his punishment), there's a more troubling overriding issue.

In the Olden Days, "free speech" meant that -- apart from a few exceptions such as threats or "yellingfireinatheater" -- anyone was allowed to say anything they wanted, no matter -how- assinine it was.

The sole recourse for "bad" speech was to "fight" it with "good" speech.

In other words, you fought speech with more speech.

Nowadays, everyone is free to say whatever they want, but if TPTB (or some "special" interest) decides it doesn't -like- what you said, they simply destroy you for having said it.

In the process, the idea that "chilling the expression of free speech" is a Bad Thing seems to have been consigned to hell.

I suspect that's what troubles a lot of folks about this debacle.

"First, they came for the moron baseball players..."

-- Sluggo (sluggo@your.head), February 01, 2000.

Chuck -- Perhaps there is something in the contract about "image" -- the problem is who gets to determine what is damaging to image. It's all PC BS. If the country goes like Iran back to fundamentalism (Xtian), then will any player suspected of "fornication" be fined and told to go to bible class? It's the same thing here, only the "religion" and dogma are secular.

The people coming down on Roker are twice as bad as he is. F*in moral fascists.

-- A (A@AisA.com), February 01, 2000.

Interesting article:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_excomm/20000201_xex_individualis. shtml

-- Sluggo (sluggo@your.head), February 01, 2000.

Elian, do you think Rocker would drag someone behind his pickup truck?

-- Kyle (fordtbonly@aol.com), February 01, 2000.

I sometimes listen to Jim Rohm (sp?) on sportstalk radio. Rohm is about as liberal as Rush Limbaugh. Anyway, he says (and he's absolutely right) that it's totally bogus to treat what's happening to Rocker as a First Amendment issue.

-- Peter Errington (petere@ricochet.net), February 01, 2000.

That's interesting. I read the First Amendment, and it says he's wrong.

-- Sluggo (sluggo@your.head), February 01, 2000.

Could there be a MONEY angle to this whole thing? If Rocker is "sick in the head" The Braves can keep him on the sick list and not have to fire him. On the other hand, are SICK people supposed to pay fines for being sick? Does a sick person have to apologise for being sick?

Inappropriate behavior is a symptom of mental illness. Try skate boarding naked down main street. I am sure a nice young man dressed in blue will soon be speaking to you.

One can admire a woman's bosom, and women like their bosoms admired. Don't you reach out and touch one of them though.

There exists a whole mental process which allows us to think all sorts of things but inhibits us to act upon them. When this inhibiting process fails, we just might be ill or drunk. Booze allows this inhibiting process to fail. (That is why ugly people ever get any sex at all.)

The older I get the less I know about more and more things.

Bill in South Carolina

-- Bill in South Carolina (notaclue@webtv.net), February 01, 2000.

One of my favorite (paraphrased) quotes from the good old days:

I may not agree with what you say, in fact it may make my blood boil, but I would defend to the death your right to say it...

Words like this mean nothing now. In fact, by repeating them all the time like I do all great quotes by the Founders, someday I fully expect the Politically Correct Gestapo to make my life miserable.

I don't think it matters what Rocker said. I think the point to all of this is that (contract notwithstanding) he's being punished for exercising his right to free speech. Tune it out and don't listen if you don't want to. But don't take the man's money and livelihood away for exercising constitutionally guaranteed rights.

What he said offended some people, big deal! I'm offended daily by the president, his cronies, and 99% of the limp-wrist, tree hugging liberals I hear about. I'm offended and outraged by Jesse Jackson defending hoodlums and complaining that 50% black oriented TV shows from 13% of the population isn't enough. Plus plenty of other people, some of whom post here. Sure it pisses me off, but people have a right to be idiots, if they want.

That's what once made this country great, and now it's degenerating into a police state, where the slightest misspoken word can get you sent to the re-education camp (or in liberalese AKA "Sensitivity Training")

Somewhere the line has to be drawn. Im declaring myself to politically correct free, as of right now.

-- Powder (Powder47keg@aol.com), February 01, 2000.

To birdlady and powder:

Hey powder: "limp wrist, tree hugging liberals?"-Am I to conclude that all liberals are faggots?? You want to go back to the good 'ol days when speech was "free" but women and miorities did not have the right to vote?? The next time you are unemployed or experience a natural disaster(flood, hurricane, earthquake) please do not ask your liberal government for unemployment compensation or disaster aid. Or next time you get hurt on the job, please do not ask for workers compensation-or if your wife, if you have one and she is working, please do not ask her to exercise the right the government gave her to take a leave to have your child without facing punishment from her employer. And, by the way, if your home town is invaded by a foreign army, please do not ask our president to defend your turf. You have a right to "hate" whoever you want-but do not be a hypocrit and ask for help from them.

Birdlady:

What exactly did rocker say that is not true?? Are you saying that every "queer" who rides the seven train has AIDS? Do you believe these faggots deserve it anyway?? Is Rocker's teammate really a "fat Monkey"-He would be the first primate other than a human to play baseball. I am so sorry you think this way.

Yeah-we can all say whatever we want, but to clarify something I said earlier, If I am confronted in the work place by sexual advances from a co-worker, I can bring an action for discrimination. If my neighbor yells over the fence-"hey if you do not shut that dog up I am going to shot you and the dog, while he is cradling his rifle, I am going to file a complaint for terroristic threats-Speech is not 100% unrestrained-There are consequences-Wether or not the punishement meted out against Rocker is fair we will let the arbitrator decide.

-- ihatehatespeech (offmy@rocker.com), February 01, 2000.

Why does free speech alone scare you so?

And you are mixing examples again. First, it was the dragging incident, now it is a neighbor with a shotgun under his arm.

Could this possibly be because you are having a hard time justifying your attack on someone who simply expresses his opinion? Having a hard time pointing out the "danger" in it? Sorry, Ihatespeech, but grow up. Not everyone thinks or speaks like you think they should - tough - get over it. It's called life - and freedom.

-- Steve Baxter (chicoqh@home.com), February 01, 2000.

Guess this bodes ill for Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream... after all, they have a flavor called 'Chunky Monkey', which disses both fat *and* black people... but only if you choose to take it that way.

-- Just (anotherbuckeye@hohoho.org), February 01, 2000.

Now, notice, Mr. Rocker gets suspended, but what of these winners in the NFL? (Come to think of it, Carruth did get suspended indefinitely.) Either way, these jerks get paid millions... disgusting.

Ravens Pro Bowl LB Lewis Charged With Murder ATLANTA (Reuters) - Pro Bowl linebacker Ray Lewis of the Baltimore Ravens was arraigned on two counts of felony murder Tuesday morning in Atlanta Municipal Court.

Lewis, 24, was arrested after two men were found slain outside an Atlanta nightclub early Monday morning after a post-Super Bowl party.

A court spokeswoman said a pretrial hearing was scheduled for February 24.

Lewis is being held without bail at a city jail. Facing a mandatory life sentence if convicted, Lewis was scheduled to travel to Honolulu to appear in the Pro Bowl on Sunday.

According to police reports, investigators responded to reports of a fight outside a club on East Paces Ferry Road in the city's northeast section at 4 a.m. EST. Upon arriving, officers found two stab victims lying in the street.

Richard Lollar, 24, of Decatur, Georgia died at the scene. Jacinth D. Baker, 21, also of Decatur, was taken to Grady Hospital, where he later was pronounced dead.

After an investigation, arrest warrants were issued for Lewis, police said.

Lewis is the second NFL player charged with murder in six weeks. On December 14, Carolina Panthers receiver Rae Carruth was charged with first-degree murder in the death of his pregnant girlfriend, who was wounded in a drive-by shooting on November 16 and died three weeks later.

Ironically, NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue addressed the issue of players' conduct off the field last week in his annual state of the league news conference.

``Can we separate ourselves from the problems of society? Of course not,'' he said. ``Can we prevent what happened with a player like Rae Carruth? Of course we can't. But we have worked heavily with the Players Association to make programs and counseling accessible to the players.''

Lewis was voted to his third Pro Bowl this season after leading the Ravens with 167 tackles while recording 3 1/2 sacks and three interceptions. He has led the team in tackles in each of his four seasons since Baltimore selected him with the 26th overall pick in the 1996 draft.

The Lakeland, Florida native was a three-year starter at Miami who came out after his junior season. In 1995, Lewis was a runner-up for the Butkus Award as the nation's top linebacker.

-- Just (anotherbuckeye@gain.org), February 01, 2000.

ihatespeech,

You, my misguided excuse for a human being, are a perfect example of exactly what I mean. You decided what I meant, instead of trying to understand the original intent of what I said.

"I am going to shot you and the dog, while he is cradling his rifle"

You are comparing apples to oranges here. Your example is of a physical threat to your safety, but Rocker's comments posed no physical threat to anyone. I didn't see any rifle in John Rocker's hands! Free speech consists of being able to speak one's mind without fear of repercussion, but short of causing anyone physical harm.

"Speech is not 100% unrestrained"

It isn't now. But it was for the first 200 years of this country's existence. There are occasions where good judgement should be used, such as yelling "Fire" in a public place. But then those occasions fall under the category (again) of potentially causing physical harm to someone.

"The next time you are unemployed or experience a natural disaster (flood, hurricane, earthquake) please do not ask your liberal government for unemployment compensation or disaster aid"

Well, typical of limp-wristed tree hugging liberals, you don't or can't understand where that "liberal government" gets its money from. I pay for those services out of MY salary. Look at your pay stub, (or welfare stub) if you don't believe me. In the last 20 years I've paid over a MILLION dollars in taxes to various governments. The $400 a week I would get on unemployment is a drop in the bucket compared to what has been stolen from me through various taxes and tariffs. Very few, I might add were actually voted on by my lawful government representatives.

"please do not ask her to exercise the right the government gave her to take a leave to have your child without facing punishment from her employer"

Excuse me, THE GOVERNMENT CAN NOT GIVE OR TAKE RIGHTS!!!!! The Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States says:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

This amendment means the power of the government is quite limited. There is no clause, article, amendment or phrase which says the federal government can give or take away rights, so what you say is a right, is merely another liberal feel-good policy thought up by liars and thieves in President Clinton's re-election committee. Women were having babies before they came up with this BS, and nothing much has changed since.

"Am I to conclude that all liberals are faggots??"

Funny, I didn't say that. You decided what I said, and then you interpreted it the way you have been conditioned to think. When I think of someone who is a limp-wrist, I mean people like you. Weak and foolish.

"And, by the way, if your home town is invaded by a foreign army, please do not ask our president to defend your turf."

God HELP the foreign army who invades my town. I don't need a rapists help for anything.

"You have a right to "hate" whoever you want-but do not be a hypocrit and ask for help from them."

I don't want anything to do with government. They on the other hand seem to want to dictate everything to do with me. In my finances, my car, my home, my work, my hobbies, my guns, my rights, everything has been interfered with by idiots that crave power and money. Me? All I want is to be left alone.

By the way, hatespeech, I think you need this: INSTANT SPELLING DICTIONARY 25,000 WORDS SPELLED,DIVIDED, ACCENTED only $10.00

-- Powder (Powder47keg@aol.com), February 01, 2000.

Now isnt this wonderful? We are all exercising our freedom of speech; we just have no tolerance for anything that anybody else says. I think that Brett best expressed my opinion on this matter the 4th thread down. I think what offended me more than Rockers statements were the actions of Major League Baseball to treat it as a mental illness. If that were the case, ALL OF US NEED TREATMENT, AND YOU ALL KNOW THAT TO BE TRUE.

I also think that this is not so much a freedom of speech issue (of a lack there of), but rather yet another example of our societys inability to accept risk for what we say or do. We want to be able to say and do what we want, but we do not want to be accountable or responsible for it. I do not believe that Rocker would have apologize at all if he thought that he could say those things without getting equally disparaging remarks and actions in return.

Rocker said what he meant and he meant what he said  no psychiatric treatment, fines or suspensions will change him. Only he has the ability to change himself, as we all do. All it did was to let me know what kind of person he is.

But is Rocker being punished because of what he said? I say no. He is simply facing the consequences of that and that is something that our society has an increasing intolerance for  accountability.

-- Mello1 (Mello1@ix.netcom.com), February 01, 2000.

The First Amendment would apply to this issue if he worked for the Federal Government.

The First Amendment only applies to the Federal Government censoring speech.

period.

the end.

-- plonk! (realaddress@hotmail.com), February 01, 2000.

Always seemed to me that the only "groups" protected by "hate speech" laws are those that can be reliably depended upon to vote Democrat.

-- JB (noway@jose.com), February 01, 2000.