One of the reasons mass transit was supported by government and bureaucrats is the GMA. What do we do with the cars when we intensify the landuse in urban areas. Is transportation exempt from the concurrancy requirement?If so, does this allow growth to occur and government is off the hook for road improvements?

-- Diana Noble-Gulliford (gullifor@gte.net), January 26, 2000

Answers

Well most of the people who vote for 695 don't think that the GMA is good government. As a matter of fact the GMA is pure idiocy. We don't NEED to intensify the land use in urban areas. We need to leave the urban areas to the transients who enjoy them so much and have the government keep it's nose out of where people want to live......ands it's dirty hands out of our pockets.

-- maddjak (maddjak@hotmail.com), January 26, 2000.

>"We need to leave the urban areas to the transients who enjoy them so much and have the government keep it's nose out of where people want to live...-- maddjak"

Wow. I've rarely seen such an ignorant posting before. Do you mean to say that the only people who live in urban areas are transients? And that the only people who choose urban areas are transients? You don't actually believe that, do you? My oh my.

-- Common Sense (1@hotmail.com), January 26, 2000.

An example of concurrance under the GMA is: a proposed subdivision of 100 homes generates about 1000 traffic movements per day. Most development under GMA cannot occur unless there are services to provide for that development or that the developer put forth $$ to help offset the increase in services required for those 100 homes. This is why we now have school, county, city impact fees of $2000- 7000 per home now. Even when we build a new home on an old lot. But I do not remember if transportation (roads) comes under the calculation. If not, our roads are not able to cope with any new increases in traffic in our neighborhoods and cities. I believe this is why mass transit was proposed right after the GMA again. It was the government's response to taking care of the traffic problem even if they did not know if it really would and that is why we are not seeing our road $$ at work like they should be. The emperor's new clothes plus federal $$ for matching our local dollars for more mass transit and none for improving the freeways or intrastate roads. Why has it taken so long for Hwy 18 to be completed? Why is Seattle so far behind in road repairs? Why aren't we building better circulation roads on the eastside. If the GMA is designed to prevent sprawl then why do we subsidize the ferry ridership? Food for thought but I just wanted to know if there was anyone out there that knew if transportation was part of the concurrance requirement for any new proposed development> Thanks!

-- Diana Noble-gulliford (gullifor@gte.net), January 26, 2000.

Diana "Why is Seattle so far behind in road repairs?"

Seattle is NOT behind in road repairs. Seattle is busy ALL the time with what they CALL road repairs but they are really traffic CONSTRICTION operations and make work programs.

If you pay attention when you drive around Seattle you will se all the 'road repair' which is total waste of money.

Downtown Seattle. The placement of thousands and maybe even millions of the little wake-up/reflector bumps that were designed to go on freeways on downtown streets. Yes on streets where vehicles seldom travel faster than 25 or 30 MPH.

Aurora. It was recently resurfaced but it was done WRONG. All the man- hole and utility covers could have been made LEVEL with the street surface like it is done in cities all over the country but the were redone three or so incehs BELOW the street surface and create PROBLEMS

City thoroughfares. Jackson street. Jackson was a four lane road running east and west for many years with parking space on each side. It was recently changed to a TWO lane road with BICYCLE lanes on each side. Now that's STREET REPAIR. What it has done is increase congestion, provide a new traffic ticket income source and it has allowed GAIS bakery to park their semis on the street instead of in their parking lot. Before the lane conversion the semis partially blocked a functional vehicle lane.. now they don't.

Beacon Avenue. It used to be a four lane thoroughfare with a parking/vegetation strip separating the two lanes in a long section near the golf course and VA hospital. Seattle spent mega bucks to eliminate the center strip, build a new concrete enclosed vegetation strip and parking area on the west side of the road and reduce the driving area to a two lane road with a center turn lane. There are no roads or driveways on the EAST side of the road and you can drive through the parking section for access to the golf course or hospital. So there is no need for a center lane.

West Seattle Freeway. One eastbound lane has been removed from public use and designated BUSES ONLY even though regular vehicles must CROSS this lane to get access to exits.

Many other roads are being changed from four lane to two lane throughout the city and if you were familiar with the city and did as much driving as I do you would notice them.

Yep Seattle is spending LOT's of money on road repair but they are doing it to Create Congestion in an attempt to create an artificial desire for transit.

And yes transients LOVE urban areas

-- maddjak (maddjak@hotmail.com), January 26, 2000.

Yep Seattle is spending LOT's of money on road repair but they are doing it to Create Congestion in an attempt to create an artificial desire for transit.

For those who believe that this is hyperbole by maddjak, it really isnt. I would refer you to a 178 page handboock on the Seattle municipal website, Making Streets That Work, which in classic doublespeak, describes how to make streets that dont work. Here is the website (Its 2.4meg of pdf file, if youre on a modem, Id make it an overnight download) and some excerpts:

http://www.pan.ci.seattle.wa.us/td/pdf/mstw.pdf

A choker is a set of two curb bulbs that extend out into the street. A choker narrows the road, sometimes down to one lane, and causes motorists to slow when entering and exiting the street.

Curb bulbs extend the sidewalk into the street. The bulbs, which may be landscaped, improve pedestrian crossings by providing better visibility between pedestrians and motorists, shortening the crossing distance, and reducing the time that pedestrians are in the street. Curb bulbs located at the inter-section also prevent people from parking in a crosswalk or blocking a curb ramp. Curb bulbs may encourage motorists to drive more slowly by restricting turning speeds and narrowing the roadway.

The reduction of an existing curb radius at an intersection can slow motorists who do not stop completely to execute a turn. The current design standard for an arterial street curb radius is 25 feetif a large number of trucks or buses turn at a cor-ner, the standard is 30 feet. The residential street curb radius standard is 20 feet. A reduced radius shortens the pedestrian crossing distance, improves visibility between pedestrians and motorists, reduces the speed at which motorists can turn, and may add parking spaces to the street.

Although the high cost of new curbs and sidewalks can be prohibitive, there is a way to successfully provide these amenities along an uncurbed road-way. Why bother? Because certain designs can minimize traffic impacts by cooling the pavement, slowing vehicles and screen-ing them from view, and providing a pleasant environment for pedestrians. The street tends to look much more attractive when the entire block is landscaped in a consistent manner. In addition, if an entire block approves a design, more landscaping options are available to them than there would be to a single individual. The components of good design include a fivefoot wide walk-way made of packed dirt, gravel, and asphalt. Five feet or more should be allocated for trees and ground cover. To find space for these amenities, temporary curbs made of 6x6 treated wood timbers anchored into the ground can be installed within a few feet of the pavement edge. In addition to creating a barrier to protect pedestrians, the temporary curb will cause drivers to park their vehicles partially on the street, visually narrowing the street, and greatly decreasing speeding.

A partial closure is a curb bulb that physically blocks one direction of traffic at an intersection on an otherwise twoway street. A temporary partial closure is accomplished through striping and signs (No Right Turn, No Left Turn, Do Not Enter).

Raised intersections are usually constructed of concrete. The center of the intersection is raised three inches and gradually slopes down to street level behind the crosswalk.

Traffic circles are raised islands constructed at intersections of residential streets. They cause motorists to decrease speed in order to maneuver around the circle, and prevent accidents from occurring. Traffic circles may include landscaping if the neighbors agree to maintain the plantings.

Chicanes are usually a set of three landscaped curb bulbs that extend out into the street. Chicanes narrow the road to one lane and force motorists to decrease vehicle speed in order to maneuver between them.

-- (craigcar@crosswinds.net), January 26, 2000.

And in some cases, these barriers can cause considerable damage (cut sidewall) to large vehicle tires which are unable to negotiate the barrier at any speed at all. Not to mention the uncomfortable ride to disabled frail passengers when you MUST drive over the curb.

And then there are those neighborhood speed bumps....you literally have to come to a full stop before proceeding over each one if you have a wheel chair passenger strapped down in the back of a bus. Transit opposes these traffic obstructions for good reason.

-- Marsha (acorn_nut@hotmail.com), January 26, 2000.