I've heard something of late from believers and non-believers alike, that bothers me, and wanted to know what the rest of you thought.

Drug addiction is a disease we get/catch, so are not to be held responsible since we couldn't avoid it. Same applies to Alcoholism, etc.

-- Anonymous, January 25, 2000

Answers

Come on D. Lee......

You can't be serious about this question.

You are too smart of a lady and know way too much Bible.

A drunk is a drunk. A homosexual is an abomination.

I think you are being facitious in your question. You really know the answer.

Funny though.....I'm dealing with this right now in my congregation.

Got one set of parents upset at me because I will not acknowledge "A.D.D." as a legitimate disorder.

Sorry.....undisciplined kids may have attention deficit.....but you can get their attention real quick with.....shall I say it....a spankin'.

Recent studies show that all diagnosed kids have one common tread....disorder and chaos in their home lives as the result of divorce, two job parents, etc.

What kids need in their lives is structure.

But, were off the subject here.

I am so absolutely sick of people listening to the "thus saith the professionals"....and "thus said the education specialist".....and the "thus saith the psychiatrists."

Dr. Jon.....you want radical change....here it is again...."How about thus saith the Lords."

"A drunkard shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

Now I will admit....you need professional help if you miss that one.

You are messin' with us ain't you D. Lee???

Please tell me you are....please!!!

-- Anonymous, January 25, 2000

From Ephesians 6.....

"Children....obey your parents in the Lord....unless you are clinically diagonosed A.D.D....then your behavior...however dispicable....is perfectly OK."

The New American Education is Going Down the Tubes Translation

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2000

Praise God.....we've found the cure!!!!

How did people ever raise good children before we knew about A.D.D.???

Thank God we have evolved and we know so much more than God!!

They also claim to have found the gene for homosexuality...adultery....drunkeness....et. al. Praise God for that too!!!

The Old Testament must have been the God of the O.T. like Marcion said...."the cruel God." Rebellious children in the O.T. were stoned.

Shame on God....he should have made an exception for A.D.D.

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2000

Fine Sam....answer my wife then.

But don't take my sarcasm for lack of position....the position is clear.....what does the Bible say about rebellion in children??

You see, I have firm ground because I stand on a "thus saith the Lord"....Ephesians 6..."Children obey your parents in the Lord." (There are no exceptions made.)

A.D.D. is a diagnosis, mostly of education experts, who do not know how to deal with children who do not fit their "cookie cutter mentality" of education.

such things as A.D.D....or slow learners. Each and every child is unique and they learn naturally at their own pace and in their own way. No two children learn alike.

We homeschool our children. One graduated college with an A.A. at age 17....my 14 year old boy....I don't even know if he's interested in college......my 8 year old....who knows....he just loves life. All three of them are different.....and intelligent....but would probably get labeled in school.

Interesting fact Sam....many A.D.D. children are in fact higly intelligent. They want to learn faster than the "cookier cutter" will allow them.....so they get bored easy. So they get labeled for the rest of their educational life as "slow".....or "troubled children."

So what do we do....we drug them up with Ridlin. Sam....if A.D.D. is as common as it is stated today....then why is it that over 90% of the cases diagnosed.....are boys???? Why would it not be more widespread across gender lines??

Boy do what boys do naturally. The are rambunctios, earger, happy to be alive. But no....we can't have that.....Johnny has to sit still....so let's drug him up.

Sam....the problem is not me.....I have 3 great kids that have been an asset to my ministry because of the way they conduct themselves. You should have seen the 62 year old man that carried on a 30 minute discussion with my 14 year old son tonight. Most 14 year olds won't give a 62 year old the time of day. I wish I had a dollar....just a dollar...for everytime I have heard..."I admire your kids."

It's not the Bible's problem. I take my advice for raising children from there and not "the experts." I respect Dobson on in where he agrees with the Bible.

In fact, Proverbs says..."The fear of the Lord is the beginning (i.e., the foundation of wisdom)."

Where do the, for the most part athiestic humanistic, "experts"....get the foundation for "their wisdom??"

I'll tell you....straight from hell.

Sorry Sam....dismiss it if you want to.....but I see my job as a preacher to call people back to doing things God's way....not the "experts" way.

Because Sam.....if you haven't noticed.....the "experts" are failing miserably.

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2000

Got to warn you guys.....

While on vacation my wife and I stopped by the Barnes and Noble and picked up two books.

One is entitled...."The Myth of the A.D.D. Child." And yes Mr. Kelley.....he is an expert. Thomas Armstong, Ph.D., Special Education Teacher. Here is the sub-title...(you got to love it)...."How to Improve Your Child's Behavior and Attention Span without Drugs, Labels, or Coercion."

The next book is...."Running on Ritalin" by another "expert"....a medical doctor....Lawrence H. Diller.

Mr. Kelley....you accused my wife of being uneducated.

Well, listen to one is educated on the subject in Dr. Diller's book. He quotes ANOTHER medical doctor. Here is the quote by Dr. John S. Werry, M.D.......

"If ever any country badly needs a sobering dose of science about ADHD to temper overenthusiastic diagnosis and treatment, it is the United States. Those of us who helped start it (the ADD boom) look at their out of control American progeny with something akin to the horror of the creator of Frankenstein."

You guys say it's genetic.....first, Dr. Armstrong points out that "there is abosolutly no scientific and or medical research to prove ADD."

Then....listen further to his comments...."there is research showing a positive correlation between ADD diagnoses and ADVERSITY IN THE HOME enviornment (including factors such as marital discord, parental mental disorder, foster care placement, and large family size)."

This is just skimming the service folks. If you want the other side of it.....the point from where Jenny and I are coming.....then read the books. Don't just "go with the flow."

Quoting the experts means nothing. You quote yours.....I'll quote mine. But don't dare claim you have a corner on the truth because "you are educated."

If you were educated.....you would have read these books.

-- Anonymous, February 01, 2000

Exactly James....

That's why quoting James Dobson means nothing to me.

He is also is "faith only"....so.....do I take his word on that??

And James, like everyone else.....you miss the point....and it is obvious you have not read these books, otherwise you would see there are viable and credible options to your child's reaction to the chaos in his life other than drugs.

Read the books......then we can discuss alternatives in addition to God's plan for raising children, from His word.

-- Anonymous, February 02, 2000

One more thing James....

Under the current criteria for diagnosing an ADD child.....at least two of our children, if they were in public school, would be diagnosed and labeled.

Just because someone "labeled" your child.....does not mean it is so.

Read the books James....before you head too far down the drug road. You have my wife's e-mail address. She would be gald to counsel with you and discuss "drug free" options.

-- Anonymous, February 02, 2000

James....

22 years of being a mother.....9 years of those home- schooling....which resulted in one child graduating from college....at an age when most were still in High School...and counseling at least two mothers which led to Ridlin (speed) free children....and happier mothers.

You see this whole attitude, including Mr. Kelley's goes to my wife and I's exact point......our society bows to the "experts."

Mr. Kelley....I read all books....but feel free to depart from them when they depart from the Word of God.

As far as Dobson is concerned....I only threw that out when you gave the impression I ought to accept it "because Dobson said it."

I got serious problems with anyone who can't get the simple plan of salvation straight. Upon what basis should I "take them at their word" for anything else??

Fellas....you go ahead and keep doing things the worlds way (it seems to be working so well)....and we'll keep doing things our way....and 20 years from now....let's compare.

There is little doubt....the ADD, drug way....is the easier way. But is it what is best for the children 20 years from now?? The evidence is showing otherwise (which is why the "experts" at Harvard are now pushing the idea of "Once on Ridlin...always on Ridlin"....which sure makes the drug companies happy.)

They can either learn to face life at home drug free....or go into the world ill equipped to deal with life after they leave home.

Proud to say that my kids are truely.....drug free!!!

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2000

Danny,

Thanks for the response! I can't quite figure out if you meant factious or factitious...at any rate I am neither trying to cause dissension nor not being genuine.

I guess I worded the question wrong. I should have asked if any of you have heard this or had to deal with this type of thinking in the Christian community.

I know these are SIN. What bothers me is that I have heard this from not only the lost, but CHRISTIANS. A friend of mine who grew up in the Christian Church believed there was nothing wrong with abortion. If Christians fall for this kind of stuff, what next?

It comes back to as you say......."How about thus saith the Lords."

Part of the problem may be the leadership is not comfortable talking about sex, pornography, homosexuality, abortion, etc. Of course that does not relieve the individual of their responsibilities.

Danny, you make me laugh.

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2000

It isa fact there people can have a genetic predisposition towards alcoholism. That has been shown. Now, that being said ...

It does not negate the sin-factor in alcoholism. If a person happens to be predisposed this way, then it would mean they would have to strive even harder than others to keep from becoming an alcoholic. No matter what your view on drinking might be, anyone leaning this way physically would be better to stay away from alcohol completely.

One other thought here ... just because a person is predisposed or has genetic problems that would make becoming an alcoholic easier, it does NOT mean God "made them this way." Any problems we have in our genetic makeup are a result of sin in the world. And sin is still sin, and must be avoided at all costs.

Now ... the ADD / ADHD thing is another interesting point. Yes, I know and have run across many children that seem to be out of control due more to their upbringing ... but we have to be careful not to rule out medical/genetic problems there as well. While I know of the upbringing problems, I also know parents who raise their children in the Lord, and who do a great job, yet their children have attention problems that can be manifest through the "typical" ADD / ADHD behaviors. I do think it has been over-blown, and I also know children whose parents and doctors tell them that they can't control their behavior, so when they misbehave it is not their fault. I think that goes way too far, and removes any responsibility frm the child for what they do, say, etc.

What do ya'll think of that new book coming out that says ALL men lean towards rape due to their evolutionary makeup? Supposedly we want to procreate so badly we (men) will rape. Wow ... what is "science" coming to these days?

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2000

Darrell, As far as the genetic/predisposition to certain bad behaviors, no study has been really conclusive in this. They have no way of "proving" they were born with it. There is also evidence that ones habits, stess, etc. can change brain paths, body chemicals, etc. So the question becomes were they born with it or did something, i.e. a bad habit, additive behavior or even stress cause a physical change. They can't prove it either way. So now we are back to square one. You got to ask yourself. Would God say that drunkeness, homosexuality, rebellion is a sin and then create people to even have a predesposition that way? The new book you mentioned is just another excuse for bad behavior. As far as ADD, ADHD is concerned. I resent the labels we put on children. When we label those of other races its called racism. Have we forgotten that God created all of us differently, as individuals and when we don't fit into educationalists little predetermined cookie cutter mold we get a label. Many, many children esp. boys were not created to sit still for long periods of time, they were created to run, jump, explore, that is how many learn, then when we do make them, we make them sit thru boring, insipid little excercises. I have found that most of those with these labels are highly intelligent. Then you add to that the lack of discipline, not just punishment but the formation of good habits and we now have an uncontrollable little one. We don't have the time to find out what he really needs and therefore a mind controlling pill is prescibed because it is a lot easier. I'm sure you know all of this but I felt it warranted repeating. Even though I kinda, sorta disagree with you, I appreciate the fact that you would not allow it to be an excuse for bad behavior. Even the head of the American Pediatrics Assoc. says we are medicating children for things that are "just a condition of life." Another expert admits most disorders, i.e. depression are still diagnosed on matters of the Dr's opinion. In other words we aren't teaching people how to deal with life.

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2000

Sorry guys, one more thing Darrell. I do agree that many children are misdiagnosed with ADD due to vision and hearing problems. Thats all for now.

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2000

Danny, my sister and her husband adopted a child who is clinicly ADHD. Although I am uncomfortable with his medicine (ridaline), I do understand that he does need it. THe issue of ADD or ADHD is not a matter of sin or self discipline, some kids do have mental disorders and chemical imbalances that call for medicine to help regulate that in them. It is like any disease, I have gout... I inherited it from my father who has it. Even though I am only 28 yrs old, I still need to control what I eat and take care of myself. Gout is no more a sin that ADD.

Also, some factors play in to many kids these days who are labeled ADD, such as long exposure to mold and mildew or even lead. In such cases the schools or homes need an air purifier such as an Living Air from Alpine Ind. to clean the air of such impurities. It has been medically proven that what is in the air will effect normal brain waves to act abnormal , thus causing ADD. Danny, tell your parents to try an Alpine (email me for more info if needed) in their home and see the difference. If they do not see an improvement then it could be a chemical imbalance.

On the other hand alcohol and drug addictions are sin. And they need to be treated as such. I would put it like this, some are weak minded not geneticly disposed to allow Satan to influence their lives. I feel if a person is weak in one area Satan will use that area to cause them pain and addiction. So perhaps such addictions can be called "demonic oppression" or even posession, depending on the circumstances and situation.

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2000

I hear a lot from the homosexual community: "But I was born this way ... God made me this way." Born that way ... perhaps. But God didn't make anyone that way. God created man perfect, but sin entered the world through one man (Romans 5:12). Since that Fall, all men have a predisposition to sin. How is homosexuality or drunkenness any different than stealing, adultery, or murder in that regard? It is still sin; it is still rebellion against God's will. Supposing (and I don't doubt that this will eventually happen!) they find a gene that makes people predisposed toward pedophilia? Does that make it OK to be a pedophile? Does that excuse it? Of course not, what absurd logic! How is homosexuality or drunkenness any different? It is still a sin! Our society wants us to make up excuses for bad behavior, but God expects us to rise above our fallen nature, and holds us accountable when we willfully refuse to do so.

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2000

Sorry Mr. Kelley I don't buy it. ADD can't be proven biblically, genetically, historically nor thru my own personal experience. I won't repeat myself from the first post nor get into a long diatribe concerning this fallacious disorder. I will thru private e-mail if interested. I have been a mother for more than 20 yrs and have seen numerous educational, parenting and pop-psychology trends come and go...I refuse to let the wool be pulled over this mother's eyes. BTW legitimate diseases such as gout can be tested by physical changes easily observed such as swelling or by blood, urine tests, etc. ADD is based on opinionated observations only, therefore the final analysis depends on one's agenda and can be particularly dangerous if not based on Godly standards.

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2000

Jenny, do not get me wrong many children do not need to be labeled ADD, but you make an uneducated statement when you say there is really no such thing. There is a real disease of ADD and ADHD, that some kids do have, as with the case of my nephew. But, to make such statements as you and Danny do, must be backed up medically. I suggest you research more on ADD and ADHD before making such claims.

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2000

God created me with a natural predisposition to lust after every half- pretty woman I see. Does that make it all right?

Danny and Jenny:

ADD/ADHD CAN be described neurologically in many children. The causes can actually be seen in the CAT scans of some brains. It ha sbeen clinically and experientially shown in double-blind testing and in many private lives that ADD/ADHD can be treated, both chemically and non-chemically. ADD/ADHD has a number of different causes, all somewhat inter-related, most having to do with a certain chemical "short-circuiting" in the synapses of the brain. This condition can and has been corrected in many children and adults, through certain nutritional approaches or chemical approaches.

It is a certainty that not every child quickly diagnosed as ADD/ADHD is actually so stricken. It is a certainty that many children so labelled are simply behavior or interest problems, thrown off on the medical establishment to get the kids out of the parents' hair. Those cases, and there are many, many of them, are truly sad, for the child.

But the fact that many are conveniently mis-diagnosed DOES NOT alter the fact that, in many, many children, we're dealing with an actual physical phenomenon that must be overcome to give the kid a better shot at being what he ought to be. ADD/ADHD is NO EXCUSE to justify bad behavior; it is a clinical diagnosis to help the parent know best how to bring the child along to proper behavior and attitudes.

As far as "I've been a parent for xx years and I know better" -- personal experience of even a broad range does not alter the truth of things not experienced. I have no personal interaction with Sri Lanka -- I've only heard other folks talk about it -- but I do not doubt that it is over there somewhere.

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2000

Sam,

I know of the neurological studies of which you speak...Dr Raymond Moore speaks of it in his book "Better Late than Early" and also one of the news shows like 20/20 had a story on it. Dr. Moore and the news show explains that when we force children before they are ready to learn it interrupts the natural growing process(God designed if you will)and the fusion of these brain connectors or the short circuiting as you mentioned. AGAIn....they are not born this way...they are made this way by forcing them into our "cookie cutter" molds. This forcing is sanctioned by the gov't and educationalist who are pushing for earlier and earlier mandatory schooling for children as young as 2, you know the "cradle to the grave" group in Washington and parents are all for this cause they don't know how to deal with their kids, many don't want to. So again Sam, I fully believe that our children are sadly victims of our ever continually falling of society. I too believe that diet has some, but little to do with it. But again, that falls under poor, undisciplined, bad habits.

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2000

Jenny...

You said "BTW legitimate diseases such as gout can be tested by physical changes easily observed such as swelling or by blood, urine tests, etc. ADD is based on opinionated observations only, therefore the final analysis depends on one's agenda and can be particularly dangerous if not based on Godly standards."

Where does Psychosis fit into your analysis? or Depression or any mental illness? Some would say that there can be judgements based on opinionated observations depending on one's agenda in any of these instances, especially since there's no physically measurable problem. Does that mean that they do not exsist? I know some that will say that depression is a condition brought on by one's self. Or is a result of some sin in their life.

Also, your term "legitimate diseases" is obviously a judgmental call on your part as ADD & ADHD are both "legitimate Diseases" according to the medical profession.

I am not saying that they are not over diagnosed and oft-times misdiagnosed. But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater! To say that no one could possibly be affected by this is turning a blind eye to need. Wishing this problem away isn't the solution. (and by the way, I really oppose the use of drugs like Ridaline!!!)

Now as to Homosexuality... no excuse in the world will let God accept this abomination as "I couldn't help myself" "You made me this way." Do you REALLY want to stand in front of God on Judgement day and blame him for YOUR shortcomings? Think about that one!

I'm not done but this should stir up some heat...

In Him,

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2000

Stoning rebellious children would probably cut way down on the gang problem!

Then again ... most rebellious children these days are stoned already ...

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2000

Danny, Danny, Danny, *Sigh*

You said: "They also claim to have found the gene for homosexuality...adultery....drunkeness....et. al. Praise God for that too!!!"

They WHO? Which "THEY" Where at? I haven't seen the scientific studies.. only your report of the invisible "THEY."

How much more do we know than God now that we have transplanted our first heart!

How much more do we know than God now that we can diagnose cancer?

WAIT!!! I think that we've just invented cancer to make up for all the people dying. I'll bet that thousands of people go through Chemo every day who don't need to. It's not really genetic at all.

There wasn't any cancer a thousand years ago... but then again we didn't live much past 34 years old.

I am saying that some people make excuses instead of raising their children with respect... Or even spending any time with them. That's not genetic, that's behavioural.

ACK now I'm not even making any sense... IS the dog wagging the tail or is it wagging him?

In Him,

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2000

BTW,

John... I'm STILL rolling on the floor laughing!!!

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2000

Danny,

I apologize if the last two posts didn't make any sense... After reading them, they appear to be the mad ravings of a lunatic. So please forgive me... I just couldn't concentrate for very long... It must be my ADD acting up again... :-P

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2000

"""Praise God.....we've found the cure!!!! How did people ever raise good children before we knew about A.D.D.???

Thank God we have evolved and we know so much more than God!!

They also claim to have found the gene for homosexuality...adultery....drunkeness....et. al. Praise God for that too!!!

The Old Testament must have been the God of the O.T. like Marcion said...."the cruel God." Rebellious children in the O.T. were stoned.

Shame on God....he should have made an exception for A.D.D."""

Fine, Danny. If you don't want to talk about it, we won't./ If all you can do to discuss the issue is to ignore what is said, and make outrageous fun of something that isn't even offered, I guess that's the best you can do.

I thought Hillyard was the only one around here who ignored statements and answered or made fun of points not ever made. I'm outta this one.

Take a lesson from your gracious wife. Take a position and discuss it with reason.

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2000

AKelley, I am going to explain this in a different light because you aren't understanding me. What people percieve as ADD and ADHD are not legitimate diseases as far as I am concerned. Now these problems definitely exist but as a result of very poor educational methods, paerntal discipline, etc and everything else outlined. I am sorry but you are wrong...I too got my information from medical and other professionals. I have mentioned some in my above posts. I have more... Says Cheston Berlin head of the American Pediatrics, "Many of the problems being addressed by medication are "conditions of life...but instead of dealing with them we're learning to treat them with pharmacology." USA Today Oct 1995. I can take the time to look up more but that would be unproductive...because for everyone you can find to argue your point I can find one that says otherwise. Besides as of yet you have not cited studies, sources, etc. Just because the experts call it a disease doesn't make it one...however what does God call it? If you mean by uneducated I do not have a degree in psychology or medicine would be like me saying...because you do not have a Doctorate degree in missions your discussions and arguements pertaining to missions with my husband, who has such a degree, would be invalid. To say that I am making an uneducated statement is judgemental on your part because you don't know what my education is. You have fallen victim to society's endoctrination that only the "experts" know the answers. Sorry but I have a mind, I am intelligent, I have common sense, logic and critical thinking. You must be very careful with scientific studies, the medical profession or any expert. You must first see if what they say conflicts with the word of God...from there is it logical, and is their basis or opening premise legitimate or faulty. Just because I don't agree with your experts doesn't make me uneducated because I too have experts from where I got my info. I didn't make this up. May I suggest your sister also do some research to see if there is a better way for her son, other than drugs and pop psychology...if she is interested I can help her to find some good places to start. One more thing, twenty yrs of educating and raising three kids makes me an expert!!

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2000

Nate, read the above post to AKelley, it will also answer some of your questions as well. You ask me about mental illness...It is not a matter of does it exists. It definitely does. The question we have been discussing all along is...is it something one can help or is it a disease one is born with. I say No, it is not a disease. May I suggest to you the book by John MacArthur "Our Sufficientcy In Christ" It speaks on this very subject of our dependency as a nation on drugs, pop psychology and the like. Again I don't know where you feel I am turning a blind eye...again there is a diffinite problem but how it got here and how we solve it is the issue. I am not sure that you and AKelley have carefully read all my posts judging by some of your statements and questions. I'll leave you with one scripture 2Cor 12:9 The Lord says to Paul "My Grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." I'm off on vacation now but will be happy to discuss more another time.

-- Anonymous, January 26, 2000

Jenny,

ALL disease is a result of SIN!

That being said... which result of sin do we treat? Cancer? Heart problems? Liver disease? Gout? Arthritis? (I get to start thinking about THAT one already! :-D) If one of your children broke a bone would you treat that? Yes, I already KNOW the answer... you love your child enough to treat him. I am not questioning your motherhood. If he was sinning when he received the broken bone you would STILL treat him. In addition to this, you would also use a professional and not do it on your own just because you know what a bone looks like. AND you would do it because you have a brain cell or two and are intelligent.

Because cancer is not mentioned in the bible, does that mean that it doesn't exist? It is here due to sin, do we not treat it? Now listen to this... I AGREE WITH YOU. I too, believe that we too often attempt to treat too many things with Pharmocology, when we should rely on the grace of God. But your son's broken leg, unrepaired, would make him weak and in that weakness would God's power be made perfect? The answer is yes. However, you would still treat him, if you could, right? Then what is the righteous answer?

I think tht you make this whole issue too "cut and dry." I do not think that there is a simplistic answer of "Just get better because it's all your fault anyway." There IS a problem (again, we agree) but wishing it away doesn't make it GO away. The man who is drowning needs a hand, not a lecture of "if you did this and such, then this wouldn't have happened to you. Jesus got people's attention by ministering to their needs. Is there a need in your opinion?

I still think that we too often mis-diagnose A.D.D. but is it legitimate? Is cancer? God knows the answer beyond our worldly knowledge.

What's the answer? I don't know... but I think that its not as cut and dry as you are making it out to be.

In Him,

-- Anonymous, January 27, 2000

Jenny, I tend to agree with Nate. As you stated that all of this is of your opinion. True, many tend to go over board on ADD or ADHD. But, the simple fact abnormalities do happen in this world. Sickness and diseases do happen. Overall the root problem is sin, we were never meant to have any of this- but because of the sin of one the whole world suffers. I would aslo agree that drugs are today's answer for society. Instead of casting the demons out we dround them in a see of medicine.

But, saying all this... can you tell me how one gets Alzheimer's? No doctor or scientist in the world knows for sure how we get it. Yet is happens. The same is for ADD or ADHD, no doctor for sure knows how some children get it or not. Blame it on society or on behavior, but it happens. Many factors do play in. But as Nate suggests- it is not so cut and dry as you and Danny point out. Not all children have ADD or ADHD- but that does not mean it does not exist. One earlier post talked about depression. How can you clinicly measure it? Is it due to a lack of faith, or sin, demon possession, what? One form of depression is SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder), my younger sister has been diagnosed with this. This is a real disorder that is curable through bright light treatments and a warmer climate, such as Florida weather. This method of treatment is proven to work.

I will agree with you to a point in the fact that many such diagnoses of ADD or depression can be cured through a right relationship with the Lord and His mighty power- He is the Great Physician. Also, equally granted there are some people who have real imbalances in their brians that cause these(misfires if you will), such as Manic Despression. That are treated in various ways.

-- Anonymous, January 27, 2000

My wife and I are in the process of adopting a 5 year old child who has adhd.When we first got him I did not believe that this was a real disorder,but the evidence has been overwhelming,and the difference the medicine has made is remarkable.I do believe that alot of children are misdiagnosed.But rittalin is speed and if a child does not have adhd it will make them hyper.My son calmes down and is able to sit and do his school work.Spanking is not the answer to every discipline problem.

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2000

Brother Jim has hit a homer with this one!

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2000

I have read almost every book on the market about add and adhd.Like everything you can find someone in the world who will agree with any opinion you want them too.You can talk for or against it being a real disorder until your blue in the face,but until you have a child live in your home you really wont understand or know what your talking about.By the way if you want to name drop books and dictors try James Dobson who recognises add and adhd as a real disorder and recomends medicine like rittalin in some cases.

-- Anonymous, February 01, 2000

Danny thank you for your arrogant words. I never called your wife "uneducated", but that she was making uneducated illinformed discussions. No offense was offered to your wife, I did not mean to insult her.

Danny, here is a question. Whay do you read any book at all. If Dobson is faith only, then the other "experts" are non Christian... why then do you read any? You cannot trust them. Again as you say, you cannot label anyone. Whatever Dobson's faith is or belief of Christian soterology is not the issue and does not disqualify him from his "expert" opinion.

-- Anonymous, February 02, 2000

Danny,

I am well aware of the alternative theories that are out there,and being a minister myself i am well aware of the biblical teaching on raising my child.As far as Dobson being faith only doesnt take away from his reputation as a doctor,were the two books you mentioned written by members of the restoration movement.No offense but what qualifies your wife to counsel with me about my situation.

-- Anonymous, February 02, 2000

Akelley, Joe

It has occured to me that you fellows have yet to cite one fact, scientific study, book, name, resource, etc to back up what you believe. What research have you studied both for AND against your view? My posts are replete with them and I have more, 8 yrs worth. (But according to AKelley thats not enough.) Give me some specifics. You have been way too busy trying to discredit me and diverting from the real issue. Just because someone says so doesn't cut it with me and it shouldn't with you either. You keep making blanket statements with no facts. We can have no dialogue until you do. You can not have possibly studied both sides because the evidence I have is way too compelling. If so give me specifics.

You have never told me your criteria for determining when an expert is correct or not. I have told you mine. I am a bit confused about your medical experts. Your expert that says ADD is a disease, also says that homesexuality is a disease. They use the same methods, retoric, faulty premises and illogic for both. So how do you know when they are wrong??? They use the same arguements for determining both as a disease. Help me out here.

The proof is in the pudding gentlemen. There are others like me who refuse to allow our children to be drugged, coerced and labeled. We are successfully raising our unique children to be happy, well adjusted, self motivated, self disciplined, God fearing, drug free children. My shelves are full of better success stories than mine, of children who were once labeled but whose parents refused to bow to the experts advice on labels and mind numbing drugs, pop-psychology, and have gone on as teenagers to be consultants for fortune 500 companies and Harvard graduates and the like. They have taken the research that the experts I have cited, have spent a lifetime compiling and have used it to their benefit.

But it is your choice. You seem to have your mind made up and don't want to be confused by the facts. If you change your mind let em know. Time and space on this forum does not permit me to share with you all the research in this area. But I have it if you want it.

-- Anonymous, February 07, 2000