Y2K A Native American Speaks Out

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Hello everyone. My name is David Whitelaw and I live in Washington State. I have been reading a lot of these posts and have found many of them to be quite informative. What I don't understand are all the personal attacks on ones opinons. I was taught that if you have nothing to contribute it is best to remain silent. I know that this is hard for some people to do but if you have nothing worth saying why should anyone listen? I and many of my people including Elders believe that one should always be prepared for the hard hungry times. If things do go wrong we will be the first to help our neighbors through any trying times. How is it that people say they will kill someone just for asking for help?I can understand protecting you and your family but when it all comes down arn't we all human beings and members of the same family? This is all I have to say

Peace David May serenity circle on silent wings and catch the whisper of the winds.

-- David Whitelaw (dande53484@aol.com), January 22, 2000

Answers

Thank you for your salient thoughts, David.

One world... one community... to some is a distant thought. To others, only an obvious truth.

*Some* from other web-bboards decided they have the "right" to harass, disrupt, attack, spam, character assinate, and troll those who wished to openly discuss their Y2K concerns here, justified or not. (Time will tell). They continue, simply because the internet will allow them the anonyminity to do so.

Fortunately, Great Spirit, the Divine, watches them... and notes their actions and words.

Peace be with you and all your relations.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 22, 2000.


amen david. most adults can usually agree to disagree even though they may passionately disagree on a topic.

-- tt (cuddluppy@aol.com), January 22, 2000.

What comes around, goes around.

-- tim phronesia (phronesia@webtv.net), January 22, 2000.

Would you mind explaing yourself?

-- David Whitelaw (dande53484@aol.com), January 22, 2000.

David, I agree, we are all members of the same family, but some are adults and some are children. The majority of those who are doing the attacking but have nothing worth saying are probably under 16 years old. They do stupid things like spend their entire weekly allowance on Pokemon cards or french fries at McDonalds, so the rest of the week they have no money to go to a video arcade or a movie, and the only toy they haven't broken yet is Mommy's computer. Don't let these little brats get to ya, just speak your mind and hold true to your beliefs. :-)

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), January 22, 2000.


Sorry for any confusion. It was a folk saying where I grew up.

It means that one way or another, their is always, in the end, Justice.

-- tim phronesia (phronesia@webtv.net), January 22, 2000.


And that means that those who live by violence, die by violence.

Those who live by hate, hate even themselves.

Those who live by lies can no longer tell what truth is.

And those who love only darkness, will get only darkness.

[Sorry, some days I'm just stupifyingly simple.]

-- tim phronesia (phronesia@webtv.net), January 22, 2000.


Oh OK now I understand. It's that karma thing. :0)

-- David Whitelaw (dande53484@aol.com), January 22, 2000.

David,

Is there an equivalent Native American analogy to karma?

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 22, 2000.


The way it was explained to me by an Elder when I was young was that the Great Spirit sees and hears everything, and that he never forgets, that hereafter he will give every man a spirit home according to his deserts; If he has been a good man, he will have a good home; if he has been a bad man, he will have a bad home. This I believe, and all my people believe the same.

-- David Whitelaw (dande53484@aol.com), January 22, 2000.


Some may call it karma. Others may call it fate. I call it the Will of God.

-- tim phronesia (phronesia@webtv.net), January 22, 2000.

David,

How do you reconcile the fact that Native American tribes warred amongst themselves for millenia over hunting grounds? "Helping your neighbor" is a good idea. What happens when your neighbor "starts helping himself" - to YOUR stuff? What then? I don't think there's a doomer on here that wouldn't share with "cooperative" and "grateful" people who would do what they could to repay such kindness in turn. Are you just as likely to share with the neighborhood agitator who calls you a "hoarder" and starts spreading rumors and lies about you in order to incite others to "confiscate" your "ill-gotten stockpiles"? I think this is the scenario doomers were referring to when they talk about breaking out the fire-arms. Would not even you and your people resist such a takeover with force of arms? (They have in the past)

-- Just Curious (question@for.you), January 22, 2000.


As I said I am not against protecting yourself or your family. And I do understand the thinking of the old ones. Did you know that in our culture the best gift you can give is a blanket? In the old times it could mean the difference between life and death during the winter. Just as today the lack of a way to heat your home can do the same. All I am trying to get acrossed is that if I have a warm home and my neighbor doesn't he or she is welcome to share my warmth. As Chief Seattle so nicely put it "This we know: The earth does not belong to man, man belongs to the earth. This we know"

-- David Whitelaw (dande53484@aol.com), January 22, 2000.

Understood David. And I agree and honor the deep wisdom of the Native Peoples of this country. Your question "How is it that people say they will kill someone just for asking for help?" You've probably "caught" one of Y2K Pro's spam posts before the sysop could zap it. Guaranteed, nearly all of those quotes are taken out of context. I even tested him by putting a post out there - when I knew he was lurking - "with an outrageous line" that I said in the same breath that I didn't mean. Sure as the sun rises and sets, it was the headline of his next "spam". As for the personal attacks, they are indeed something. Anonymity is like alcohol - brings out the worst in some people.

Peace David

-- Just Curious (question@for.you), January 22, 2000.


David, I will not killanyone ,never would. Never will, I hope...have lots of deer come visit me, I feed them, and am amazed at their independence.. they don't need money...like me...or a blanket like me...I do feed them, but what they give me back for a few cans of corn is very precious to me, they give me beauty in a world that tends to be un beautiful. People that have love and respect cannot kill unless it is necessary. Regards to you and yours.Sandy salene

-- sandy (rstyree@overland.net), January 22, 2000.


Hi Dave!

I am up in Victoria BC, and was wondering how you felt about the Whale kill last year. That was a conflict with no in between. Native peoples should be able to go back to their past yet this is not the way to do it. In the past when they went after whales there were spiritual and physical tests among the hunters to assure they were tough enough for the ordeal. This going out in a power boat and using virtual "cannons" against an intelligent being really is a bit much though.

This topic as well as others bring people to hostilities. There is no wrong or right but there has to be some accountability on both sides. I am sure there are many folks on the coast that would risk their lives to save the whales. And some that would risk their lives to kill a whale.

For some reason there is a passionate resolve in some folks on some topics. It means something beyond their personal life. Some of those people are extreme in their convictions and this is on both sides of the issue.

As I don't know if you are aware of the history of Y2K (short as it is) has been one of the first birth pains of the WWW. It was born from computers, communicated on the internet and has had free imput from folks all around the world.

But the lines were set early on in Y2K and both sides, the pollies and the doomers faced off for years debating the effects of Y2K and the safety of others. What the doomers had going for them is the organization of information and internet presence. The pollies on the other had never had a organized info effort. Information on remediation was slim to none in some respects (water, heath, small business, chem - refining plants ect.) not to mention governments.

Y2K was not a simple topic. Not only is there first and second hand problems to consider but there was also legal and insurance problems that agrivated the situation without becoming relevant to the issue.

The bottom line is that some people felt at risk, some people wanted to make money and some people thought the whole thing was a crock of shit.

But I do know that after the Algerian was caught moving bombs from Victoria to Port Angeles there were alot of freaked out people in Victoria that normally wouldn't be about Y2K. That suprizes me. Fear touches people in differant ways.

serenity, simplicity and sincerity, be like a dog by his master. *VBG*

PS

Dave

If folks think that Y2K was hard to understand, what would they think about animal spirits?

-- Brian (imager@home.com), January 22, 2000.


David and Sandy,

It is a comfort to know that there are others who share some of my views.

The respect for the earth and for all living creatures in turn deserves respect, harmony, and happiness.

Peace ~~Cin

-- cin (cinlooo@aol.com), January 22, 2000.


I am sorry for I can't answer for my Makah brothers or the way they do things. I do beleive that it should have been done the traditonal way but as I said this is just how I feel about it. The Makahs have had many sicknesses plague their people and the Elders beleived that it was from the lack of their traditional diet of blubber. You can rest assured that none of it was wasted. As I said it is their decision to do what they think is best for the people not mine.

-- David Whitelaw (dande53484@aol.com), January 22, 2000.

Odd number of lurkers dropping in to post ettiquette notes. I think the tech issues covered have raised my dander much more than sticks- and-stones sparring; why bother commenting on etiquette if you have not commented on the truly life-impacting global issues covered in other threads?

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), January 23, 2000.

As I have already said I'm new to this forum and really am not well versed enough to offer any opinion on the technical matters. I am here to learn.

-- David Whitelaw (dande53484@aol.com), January 23, 2000.

Hi David,

Point is, we're talking about non-aboriginal Americans here. If they want something, and you can't give them all they want or can carry, they are more than happy to kill you for it, along with your whole family and anybody that even looks like you, then burn your house down around your carcass.

In Arkansas, that's called a suicide.

-- Z Walks in Thunder Ravenhawk (off-rez@for.now), January 24, 2000.


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