Trolls are lazy and selfish creatures. They try to push your buttons (usually buttons that have to do with personal esteem) and try to get you to 'make a defense' - which is basicly spend alot of energy trying to 'reason' with them to win them over to your side or at least to stop attacking your person.

That is all they want. They want you to exhaust yourself and get all frustrated and do alot of work which will end up not changing them or what they do.

There is one hint as to the nature of their trollishness: THEY ACCUSE YOU OF WRONG. So there you have it. They are acting like little devils with pitchforks to torment.

There are ways to deal with devilish things: TURN THE LIGHT ON THEM and IGNORE THEM THERE AFTER.

They are emotional parasites who want to suck on your emotions. Its a power trip for them. If you respond to them they will have manipulated you into playing the game THEY have arranged and you will lose.

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS

-- ..- (dit@dot.dash), January 22, 2000

Answers

You may be right about Trolls.

I believe that if the preps had spent the money on new tires for their houses, they'd be better off now.

-- . (.@1.2), January 22, 2000.

Heckie,

Thanks very much for standing up and saying your truth, both at TB2000 and at the wwwboard11. Really impressed how you handled yourself there...and love your wit and honesty. Very refreshing, very funny!

Yeah, i felt like I was kinda way out there on a plank when I stood up to Ron, and i know a lot of people were just sitting there, but not saying anything. That kinda bothered me. Probably because I was abused as a kid, and a lot of people looked the other way that knew better. I can't sit back and watch someone punch or hurt somebody, or a child, or hurt an animal. Really hits something deep in me; really bothers me; I think that is going to be there for the rest of my life.

Initially, I think only you and a couple of others stood up...but I'm pretty sure that opened the door. Was pretty surprised to find it wasn't just me who felt hurt by Ron and the other "character snipers". It's hard to find a term that really describes these people and what they do. They have a very chilling effect on most everyone; there are going to be all kinds of decent people who won't feel safe enough to come out and share what they know and feel, for fear of being hounded and slandered in public.

It's really wrong to do that to people because Ron has no idea who they are as a person, or what has happened to them, or what they've been trough. It's just kind of indiscriminate hurting - just to hurt; no purpose in mind; not leading anywhere....just leaving a trail of hurt and suppression behind them.

Also wanted to thank you and the others, because I thought it was just me that it was happening to. Thought maybe I'd made a fool of myself in public for "being too sensitive". Someone does that to you and you have to stop and wonder, "Did i really do something to deserve that? Was I really that off?" And so instead of being open and vulnerable, it causes everyone to second-guess themselves. And what's so nice about kids is they are so spontaneous, genuine, open and they pretty much just say what they think, and it's no big deal. And we all seem to have lost that pretty much.

The other side, is the other people who ignore what is really going on, and they start making excuses, and follow Ron's lead...then start justifying it, then taking their own pot-shots, putting their own spin on everything - as if they have the last word on reality.

So someone that hasn't see the whole picture has to be left with the impression that there is something wrong with the person who was attacked, and the others never find out what it really was they were trying to say or share.

I hope this makes sense. Yeah, you made a difference...so did the others. I truly hope the entire exchange is something everyone can learn from. Really.

I hope those that read those through those threads go beyond the personalities, the "boyz pizzin' match" and all the ego crap. That stuff is going nowhere unless someone brings it around. I don't want, need or crave attention (especially in public)- I still can't get up on stage to play my music; stage fright I guess. But I'm not afraid to be open about what I think and feel...its never gonna hurt me to learn in the long run. I really believe that, and I think there is a kind of magic when you leave yourself open. I've seen it happen too many times in my experience.

I hope some of the TB2000 readers looked at the issues...and gave *them* thought. That's really the only thing that matters to me. Who cares about me or Ron and piss wars? That's all junk. Its what's worth knowing that counts..and that doesn't need an ego or personality to 'prop it up'. It stands on its own and each person will know what to do with the understanding. Hopefully, so they come away empowered in some way. That's the only thing that counts in all this. Flush the personalities, they come and go; but truth remains.

Don't mean to be condescending but there is a part of me that really feels for Ron. Growing up in an severely abusive, dysfunctional family myself...I know someone must have really stepped on Ron. No question.

Someone had to step on him *really hard* for him to be doing what he's doing. And that's really sad because where's he gonna get the info to turn *that key* - so he's not stuck there? Think he looks forward to living the next 5 years - they way the past 5 years have felt? That's the ass kicker about all this and it's inescapable. I know it; I've been there and had to learn and change. But its much better now. And he needs to know all that hurt can change into something more positive, and he needs to find out about Adult Children of Alcoholics, Bradshaw, etc...for that is where the keys are that can open that door for him. Doesn't matter if his parents were alcoholic or not - its the rigid patterns of behavior, the damage it does to one's self esteem, and the way we try to cope with it as adults.

No, I don't feel 'sorry' or 'pity' him; yes - he has to start taking responsibility for his behavior at some point. But I do feel empathy for him and what he is dealing with. Because I know what it's like to hurt like that inside, and it's a lot of confusion and pain and feeling like you don't belong or fit in anywhere...and nobody deserves that.

I always think, "Yeah...I bet Ron musta been a beautiful baby...huh?" And then, its what happens between then, and where things are now that really is what is so sad. And the cycle continues. Yeah, pretty scary to think that someone like that is repeating what happened to them, and passing it onto their children, (or any passer-by). What is gonna break that viscous cycle of hurt? You can see where it leads, and how it leaves people feeling...anyone who comes in contact with it. Very empty feeling inside that just causes people to shut down.

It brings the worst out of people...instead of bringing out the best in them. That's what is so sad about it all.

Hope I haven't said too much here...just honest feelings about the whole thing. Personally, I wish the TB2000 would focus on the issues which were raised. All that seems to have been lost in the cross- fire now. Oh well...we tried.

Thanks for not sitting back, for standing up and telling your truth. I think it sets an example and makes it safer for others to stand up too. There's some truly remarkable people on TB2000, a lot of great humor and wit (awesome), many smiles, lots of honesty, many good people with character and many that care.

I enjoy participating here; hopefully some of this will make a difference in someone's life; hopefully they stop to re-think things once in a while...I sure do. (understatement)

Way cool...huh? Thanks Heckie...and to everybody else. I hope we learned something worth knowing in all this.

Sincerely,

-- Steve (SMeyers@aol.com), January 22, 2000.

OK

Anyone else that has been abused by Ron Schwarz should realize that he's been doing this for years, and will only continue to vampire others on other forums who a not aware.

As mentioned before, if ohers have "experienced" this guy in other forums, please say so now, and specify which forum (AKA URL).

Heckie, thank you for taking out the garbage (TWICE!!) :)

-- john (its@private.com), January 22, 2000.

I will say this, the Sysops are "really" tired of dealing with trolls, spamming, etc.

Any suggestions?

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 22, 2000.

Ms. Squire,

Ever hear of freedom of speech? You might give that a try. A hungry shark gets only more viscious. [ancient polish proverb]

-- (Ugly@old. man), January 22, 2000.

Hokie,

You might want check this out too (skip the first part; starts at "Darla":

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002NnD

-- ICE (ISee@ThruU.com), January 22, 2000.

(Ugly@old. man) a.k.a. Y2K Pro,

Are you discussing freedom to abuse? People have always been "free" to post here. What they are NOT free to do is spam and a DOS attack, hack and troll and flame... no matter how hard they try.

How difficult is it for you to "get that?" No matter how many different ISP's you use. Quit spamming. You are "free" to post on your delete forum. Have at it... there. Not here.

Duh. Read the guidelines. Most every forum on the internet has them. Wonder why? THINK, oh ye of the small mind.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 22, 2000.

Steve,

I haven't had the opportunity to read much of your writing, but what little I have personally seen suggests to me that you are a sincere, thoughtful, and caring person. I don't really know what troubles you have had with others online, but I wish you every success in your good endeavors. Shine bright!

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (faryna@groupmail.com), January 22, 2000.

Ms. Squire,

Some of the worst "abuse and flaming" on this forum was presented by your friends. I submit Ron Schwarz for you consideration. How about King of Spain and Hawk?

You can't even get through a post without calling me "a small mind."

I have seen your friends rip the pollies (not trolls) to pieces for simply disagreeing.

You I'm afraid, are the one with the small mind. Time to take out your own trash.

-- (Ugly@old.man), January 22, 2000.

Diane wrote:

"Ugly@old. man) a.k.a. Y2K Pro,

Are you discussing freedom to abuse? People have always been "free" to post here. What they are NOT free to do is spam and a DOS attack, hack and troll and flame... no matter how hard they try."

What, in my recently deleted post, qualified as *any* of the above?

Jonathan

-A computer glitch did not bring about the end of civilization. Censoring opinions you don't like won't change that.-

-- Jonathan Latimer (latimer@q-a.net), January 22, 2000.

Thanks Stan,

Here's a quick list of some of the better papers: (more at the GSP website, explore! Some real gems there from *many* intelligent caring people.)

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002NnD

Also, another "side" of me: (MPD DID) "Why UfOs R NOT ReaL!!"

http://www.bashar.com/ufo-not/ (satire/humor)

Be *sure* to read at least as far as 2nd page (click on little mouse at bottom of first page).

And...something not quite as funny: "The Family Of Man" (poem)

http://www.bashar.com/GSP/thefamily.htm

Enjoy & Best wishes,

Steve

-- Steve (SMeyers33@aol.com), January 22, 2000.

Ms. Squire,

I see you added a new touch to my handle. tsk tsk. Now you not only delete others, you edit your own posts. What's the matter? Did I hit a nerve when I called you for flaming ME?

You really don't deserve to be a sysop. Shame on you for editing to make me look bad.

And I suppose now anyone from an anonymizer is Y2K Pro. You are grasping at straws. I assure you, I am not Y2K Pro.

-- (Ugly@old.man), January 22, 2000.

Steve,

Thanks for the links. I haven't had the opportunity to explore and consider some of the subjects you get into (planetary-environmental issues, etc), but the links brought me to some of your interesting takes on such. What strikes me most about some of your writing that I have seen is that it seems to come from the heart. I am even reminded of the Desiderata-- a poem that provides a gentle and healing wisdom. Hopefully, we will get to know each other more. Send email sometime.

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (faryna@groupmail.com), January 22, 2000.

Diane,

Keep on keeping on!

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (faryna@groupmail.com), January 22, 2000.

Ugly Old Moron:

The only 'rights' you have here is what the sysops decide. Freedom of speech does not mandate anyone to create a forum for you because you can't get off your lazy a** and create your own. You may want to read the Constitution for yourself sometime, instead of parroting someone else' misinterpreted viewpoint. Your 'freedom' is to get off your lazy a** and create your forum.

-- haha (haha@haha.com), January 22, 2000.

Kool stan, I'll do that. (Hey u might want to meet MiKeY too!)

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002Lfp

-- Steve (SMeyers33@aol.com), January 22, 2000.

Opps!! ...that was the wrong thread, sorry - my mistake. One minute, and I'll find it.

(dang! i coulda SWORN that was the right one..sheesh! Bozo me.)

Steve

-- Steve (SMeyers33@aol.com), January 22, 2000.

Ok Stan - here it is: *Meet MiKeY! (more fun, and a few good points too)

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002Nv6

Best

-- Steve (SMeyers33@aol.com), January 22, 2000.

Wow - Dit.Dot.Dash,

I've re-read your opening statement above several times. Profoundly clear, to the point, elegant...and a screaming 'bulls-eye'.

As they say, "Hole in one..."

Nice drive......

-- Steve (SMeyers33@aol.com), January 22, 2000.