well the game list has been decided, and although nothing I voted on got in this looks like the best list yet for me, so I'm looking forward to this.

A couple things before we begin though - I think somewhere on the tourney site (probably the main page) we're going to need a direct DL link to TGMAME3. Not all the competitors read the message board so they may not know where to get it, hopefully not too many scores will have to be disqualified because people used the wrong version. Hell, I think we'll need a big reminder message telling people not to use other versions.

And, here's a random thought - since half the games have settings changed from default, wouldn't it be nice to have a recompiled TGMAME that automatically defaults to the tourney settings? Because again, some people will forget to change the settings and their scores will not count. The only game where the settings have to be changed in-game is Gauntlet II, and I already know that this is going to be a pain in the ass. :P People would have to re-DL this new compile but I think it would make things run a little smoother. Any thoughts?

-BBH

-- BBH (lordbbh@aol.com), January 16, 2000

Answers

This would be great although, if someone is going to recompile tg3mame put in a better encryption and call it m35tg4. Me and Ben have been pleeding for mark to do this for weeks now, but there's just too much on his table to code a few lines and recompile. So i doubt an automatic settings generator could be compiled in. But hey we can ask yet again :)

Maybe i should do what Mark did and give away the easily found out "secret" that let's anyone cheat just as much as in mame35 with m35tg3... nah that would be too ironic.

-- Chad (churritz@cts.com), January 16, 2000.

Well this news is very distressing. I had hoped that m35tg3 was the answer to our cheating woes. It's certainly a huge step in the right direction (well done Mark) but clearly from Chad's comments there are at least two known holes - firstly the encryption is not 'very cryptic' and something Chad refers to as 'cheating with m35tg3 is as easy as with mame35'. This is the first I have heard of this. If Mark is too busy to add some changes and make m35tg4 what's stopping somewhere else here from making these code changes and rebuilding? Personally I'd like to see the tournament commence with a version of mame that has 'no KNOWN holes'.

As a final note - Chad, in the future could you please not refer to these flaws in MAME unless you are actually going to explain/reveal what they are in full for everyones benefit. Being left out of the secret only results in frustrating people who don't know what you are talking about and raising their suspicions that there are secret ways of cheating only known to 'the elite' MARP members.

In other words either full and frank disclosure or complete secrecy is the way to go - nothing in between.

Please can we plug up the holes - we've got a fortnight before the tournament, plenty of time if the fixes are just a few lines of code as you've indicated.

-- Tim Morrow (tjmorrow@bigpond.com), January 17, 2000.

I had thought it already well known, since Mark had stated this in #irc, so i apoligize if i've unleashed a monster. It is not propper to reveal the secrets unless tg4mame comes out, unlesss Mark want's to do this. I did want to make people aware that this version wasn't as secure as it origonally states. (It is partly mine and ben's fault for not immediatly trying to hack it as soon as it came out, since at a very first glance it appears to be reasonably encrypted.) Hopefully the hacking that we both know (and now mark knows) can be stomped if there are a few more encrypting lines in the hidden m35tgX source.

We also must be aware that tg versions WILL be probably be hacked eventually, since no matter how difficult it is to analyze the encryption and try to hack, someone can just steal Mark's protected source and get the secret. But hopefully that is very unlikely to happen. I just didn't want a version to be used that could be hacked as easily as this could, with out any knowledge of or stealing of mark's encryption routines.

I think it is obvious that there should be a pre release of tgmame next time, to all that can make an attempt at hacking, that will give them one week to try to hack it, if they can't then it should be released to the public.

-- Chad (churritz@cts.com), January 17, 2000.