Why are many so angry?greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
Yes, I am one of the people you have never heard from, so why am I contacting you now? I have a question to ask. Why are so many people angry at Ed Yourdon? To me he has done nothing more than alert our "throw away" society to the fact that we need to be prepared ahead.... not just for Y2K, but whatever is in store for us in the days/weeks/months/years ahead. I remember my grandmothers cupboards and they were never bare! I am so thankful that my cupboards are now full and if something comes along that causes me concern for my well-being, I will not need to fear feeding my family. I say to you, Ed Yourdon, God bless you! You are suffering unconscionable redicule over this. I wish I could give you a big hug right now, sounds like that is what you need. A mother of four grown children and 7 g-children.
-- Sandra Foley (email@example.com), January 07, 2000
Thanks for the kind thoughts. My family has been giving me plenty of hugs, so I'm fine...
-- Ed Yourdon (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 07, 2000.
People are angry because no matter how they rant and rave, somebody out there still disagrees with them and to have that happen is past what their coping skills allow them to handle.
In general, people like to be right, they like to be on the winning team, they like things to be in clear terms of black and white, and they like everybody to see the light and see it their way when they spew their own brand of wisdom. When that doesn't happen, they get angry. I'm sure as a grandma, you've seen that hundreds of times.
-- Grant Naylor (email@example.com), January 07, 2000.
Hello and a hearty AMEN! Being prepared shouldn't be a source of shame, it should be one of PRIDE.
Somehow, I believe that some of these attacks are based on a feeling of insecurity, when the trolls core beliefs in greed and hedonism are exposed for what it truly is: hubris.
-- Deb M. (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 07, 2000.
It's also fascinating that this board hasn't died yet. In fact, it seems to be thriving. Apparently people just love to talk & make long-winded speeches, even when everything has essentially already been said, repeatedly.
What an education all of this has been.
-- it's such (email@example.com), January 07, 2000.
People love to talk??? News to me. Why, I haven't felt like expressing an opinion for at least 15 seconds or so. Hmmm....
-- Babs Walters (Walters@theview.com), January 07, 2000.
Hey Granny Naylor, get back in yur rocker and clam up.
-- Porky (Porky@in.cellblockD), January 07, 2000.
I've lived on a farm in Idaho all my life and my mother in the 50's had the pantry full of canned goods and other food items that lasted at least 6 mo. The last 30 years even my family went to a JIT supply of food. But because of people like Ed Yourdon we are now back on the level of preparadness that my folks were at and that's the way it is going to be from now on. John
-- John Thomas (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 07, 2000.
-- Grant Naylor (email@example.com), January 07, 2000.
Sandra, of all the words typed in this forum lately, I believe yours express best how most of us feel. Ed, I admire your grace under fire.
-- Old Git (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 07, 2000.
Why the anger? Because no matter what you do or what you say, SOMEONE is bound to despise you for it. And if you happen to be brave enough to take a stand and fight the momentum of the masses you are risking crucifixion, public opinion-wise. Yourdon was one of the few to risk his reputation to make us aware of this issue, and for that he gets my accolades. Sadly, he will now be subject to volumes of abuse from idiots who derive joy from the fine art of scapegoating, but I for one wish him the best.
-- Ludi (email@example.com), January 07, 2000.
I think a lot of people are angry because Ed is behaving like a sniveling little weasel and won't simply stand up and admit when he's made a mistake. The latest diatribe on his web site is comprised mainly of whining about how he's getting all these mean and nasty emails and poor Ed doesn't get any respect
. Then he launches into a pathetic mess of spin that would make our President proud. After all, Ed didn't say anything WOULD happen, just that it MIGHT happen, which means that it MIGHT NOT happen, and so of course, he was actually RIGHT, because it DIDN'T happen. Really, it depends on what the word "wrong" means. Then he brings up a whole mess of problems ANYWAY and blames them all on Y2K, even though the analysis hasn't been done on them. Planes on the ground?? Y2K!!! Chemical plant problems?? Y2K!!! Local Burger King out of Pokemon toys??? IT MUST BE Y2K!!!
I think some people expected more from Mr. Yourdon, based on his supposed reputation, and were disappointed. After all, even Gary North admitted he was wrong.
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 07, 2000.
Do you mudwrestle?
-- (Iemail@example.com), January 07, 2000.
"Sadly, he will now be subject to volumes of abuse from idiots who derive joy from the fine art of scapegoating"
Case in point: firstname.lastname@example.org
-- Ludi (email@example.com), January 07, 2000.
Mom used to teach us that anger frequently arises from self-hate. She said that people who hated themselves often expressed this fault by attacking other people.
I have found as I navigated my way through life that mom was often wiser than I originally gave her credit for at the time.
-- Arnie Rimmer (Arnie_Rimmer@usa.net), January 07, 2000.
I'm not angry at anyone, especially Ed Yourdon. In fact I am quite appreciative of all Mr. Yourdon has done to bring so many different unseen, everyday facets of our lives into our awareness -- JIT inventories, dependence on foreign suppliers, interconnectedness of our financial institutions, etc. We are all so busy living our fast-paced lives that we often don't take the time to connect the dots.
Personally, we are going to a simpler lifestyle. We have been moving in that direction for years, but Y2K really gave us the opportunity to realize that this is what we needed to do NOW. This has been the gift of Y2K for us; the problem was really a present in disguise.
We are so grateful that there have not been any major, major disasters thus far. Hopefully, there won't be any coming. But disaters appear on the planet everyday; that is just a part of life.
So we are basically ready for whatever may come, hurricanes, utilities problems, unemployment, etc.
Nevertheless, I would like to continue lurking here as I have been for over the past year. Y2K really isn't over,'til it's over (at least perhaps some months down the road). So, I'll just keep hanging around watching the squirrels and furthering developments.
-- Lurkess (Lurkess@Lurking.Net), January 07, 2000.
Thanks for your support of Ed. I find it annoying and offensive that these lurking cowardly sniveling little weasels find such pleasure in saying "I told you so" in the anonymity of the net and with the clairvoyance of 20-20 hindsight. Ed had the courage to say what MIGHT happen, without such benefit. Ed, you've got my respect.
-- No Polly (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 07, 2000.
I think people should be pissed at the authors of the Bible. All those predictions that haven't come true. People killing each other over the interpretation of the Bible. The Y2K hoax is nothing compared to what religion has done to people and in the name of God nonetheless. And yes, Y2K was a religion, a religion of the pollies versus the doomers, and some even sprinkled Bible prophecy into it to make their point. I don't blame anyone for whatever action I took to prepare, I'm not angry or sad. Actually, looking back I have to laugh about it all now. I really didn't lose anything, stressed a bit, but it was an experience I will never forget. However, this experience makes me be a little more cautious when an expert steps up to the microphone and says "hear ye, hear ye."
-- bardou (email@example.com), January 07, 2000.
I have the feeling that those who were angry before 'the event' (not yet over) are angry now, as well, and I like to avoid angry people. You never know what they might do in their irrationality.
I am SO thankful that Ed is getting hugs from his family, because family is where life is. I, too, as a mother of five and grandmother of seven, am thankful for learning about the interrelatedness of our society, and am not sorry for my modest preps.
A thought has come to me, as a Christian, is that God may have taken us through this to prepare us for some future event, perhaps worse than Y2k. Of course, we can't know the future; that's why I really felt I was willing to accept whatever happened.
I think Ed Yourdon's family need only be very proud of him and thankful that he is a man of such courage - - not perfect, I'm sure, but courageous.
To me, he's one of the 'good guys'. Thanks, Ed.
-- Connie Iversen (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 07, 2000.
Attention Sandra Foley & Ed Yourdon
Thank you for standing up and being counted. My wife and I have gone through very difficult times in our lives. Both of us came from poor families, put ourselves through school and have reached an enviable level of comfort. We have always kept a full pantry. We remember the 70's and know how quickly the economy can go south. We also share a high level of understanding in technological matters. I hold many patents in non-destructive testing and my wife (a physician) is becoming very well known nationally and internationally for her expertise in medicine. We also have a lovely young daughter.
Our lifestyle reflects many of our life experiences. We believe in being responsible for our families and taking care of them without expectations from others. Before Y2K awareness became mainstream we were pretty much prepared for the majority of interruptions that could be thrown our way. Thanks to Mr. Yourdon we firmed up our preparations further. Do we have any regrets? No! Would we do it again? We won't have to since there will be no backtracking on our beliefs in self- reliance.
Unlike others we were lucky in some ways. We knew what hard times were. We lived through them and knew we could rely on ourselves again. We know the technical issues related to self-reliance. Our hobbies have generally revolved around our house; consequently we have tended to choose more rural locations to live with plenty of acreage to maintain our lifestyle. We have a well and septic system, two backup wood stoves and acres of hardwood, a six hundred square foot terraced drip irrigated garden, fruit trees and grape vines, and an inverter based backup power system. All of this we had before we became aware of the Y2K issue.
We did add a few other items once we became aware of the potential problems. Rather than running the generator to charge our batteries we now have eight (8) Helios solar panels. We also decided that hot showers were very important to us so we added a backup wood burning hot water heater. Will these be used? Sure they will. In the past 2 years we have had 16 power outages with the longest lasting 6 days. Last winter our gas regulator froze after a sleet storm. Unfortunately we did not have the backup hot water heater at the time. There were some other items and minor purchases, but more importantly we kept on learning about the issues of resilience and sustainability.
What I find striking these last few days is the level of trolling taking place and the general cynical themes running through the posts. Without fail I find a common thread in the posts that attack people who prepared or alleged to be profoundly disillusion at having prepared. This really does strain credibility. It reminds me of the shunning that occurs is some of my wife's patient's families. A family member comes down with a degenerative, fatal illness and the family members respond in manners that defy logic. Some rally around the sick relative well others flee in panic. The ones that flee I find the most interesting and contemptible. Maybe I should pity them. The parallels with Y2K are striking. It is as if some of the family members that run feel that the problem will go away if they ignore it. That if they abandon any notion of responsibility it will never effect them. The worst part is when they begin to exhibit anger at the sick family member for reminding them of their vulnerabilities. The reason is this disorder can run in families and the etiology is not known. On many occasions my wife then becomes the target of their anger even if they never develop the disease.
My wife did not give their family member the disease. My wife did not tell the family member that they were certain to get the disease. My wife never even judged them about their reactions. My wife counseled the family members, and for this she finds herself under attack. I think many of this forum's regulars can understand this. Should we have pity for this type of person or contempt? I don't know. I vacillate regularly on this. I just don't know.
Well I think I have said enough for today. Thanks for listening to my rant. Mr. Yourdon you do not have to apologize for anything. And Sandra thanks again for being counted. Some time in the future I will bare my soul on my technical background with the electrical, gas, water and oil industry. I will share a very unique perspective on failures from someone who literally worked in the "trenches" and examined first hand how our wonderful infrastructure can fail.
PS. To Lane Core if you are reading this. It is me and we still would like to have you visit for dinner. Email and I will confirm your suspicions. You don't have to apologize for anything either!
-- PA Engineer (PA Engineer@longtimelurker.com), January 07, 2000.
Sandra, Ed, PA Engineer, it is the graciousness of your posts that is a tribute to this forum. Bardou it is the ungraciousness of mankind that turns people away from God. Pastors, preachers, evangelists, they are all human. This forum is not about the Bible or its believers that's why I'm here and not at Pastor Chris' forum (if there still is one). I don't think people should ever argue about the interpretation of the Bible. lurker 13
-- lurker 13 (email@example.com), January 07, 2000.
What a fine thread this has been! Thank you each for sharing your perspectives, with which I heartily concur. PA Engineer, you have expressed it clearly and profoundly. The analogy with the reactions your wife and the ill often receive rings so true.
For me, what I learned from Y2K, this forum, and Ed's book, has been the realization more fully than ever before of my own and society's vulnerability, and that there are measures I can take to render myself far less vulnerable. There has been a unique sense of empowerment resulting from becoming more self-sufficient. The reading of self-sufficiency literature and the beginnings of learning "how to" has been a graduate school education I never would have undertaken at this age (though I completed my bachelor's at age 55!) without a tremendous impetus such as immediate need to learn for survival. Although it stressed me, as well as stressing my finances radically, I have absolutely no regrets. Somehow I can always catch up with debt repayment, but had there been a disaster, I could not have caught up at all with anything!
As someone at work said to me, and I posted before rollover, when I asked the admins to consider ordering more supplies than usual and to be delivered before rollover,"I will not change my lifestyle for anyone!" That seems to epitomize the attitude of those who chose not to prepare, and their anger at those of us who did. I think this is reflected in the hostile posts of which we are seeing more and more lately.
Also, as has been repeatedly pointed out, if you have ever worked for a PR firm, you know how and why disinformation is disguised in many cloaks. I am not naive enough to think all of these "angry" people are really angry people, but rather, that they are paid for a very specific purpose we can all deduce.
-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), January 07, 2000.
Didn't have time to respond earlier. I'd been wanting to post this link on an appropriate thread and I think this is it. It's from the old Y2Kchaos forum, I kept and printed it. (Sorry, I'm link impaired, will have to just post the -long- address):
-- Virlie (MstMtnRain@aol.com), January 08, 2000.
I haven't had time to keep up with Ed's recent writings, but I will not 'blame' him for speaking out regarding something that he felt enough concern about to take radical action(s) for his own family and life. I never bought his book (sorry Ed), but profited greatly from the discussion forum that he initiated. Think of the billions spent on Y2K,... because of Ed Yourdon? I don't think so. I have many questions remaining unanswered (as of yet) regarding Y2K, but I don't expect Ed to magically have the answers. I continue to mainly lurk for updates, but am attempting to resume 'normal' living (picture that with seven kids, I dare ya). Preps will continue as a low key way of life for us. Who can sensibly regret being more prepared for whatever life may throw at you? It has been a stressful year, a wild ride, and I'm thankful I was able to communicate with so many on this forum as an informative support system. Do I wish I could have 'known' exactly what would or would not have happened? Would I have done 'exactly' as I did then? More unanswered questions that I think time will clarify. I will never regret changing my dependence on JIT, but weaning gradually might have been nice. Who could 'know'? Another poster who wishes you and yours well Ed....
Best wishes to all...
-- Mumsie (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 08, 2000.