Revelation chapter 18 looks very much like the effects of Y2k : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

I wasn't gonna post no more, but thought this is important so I will post it. Y2k maybe very serious for us indeed.

-- Brent Nichols (, January 06, 2000


HI Brent. What part? I mean, what verses.... I'll check it out.

-- JoseMiami (, January 06, 2000.

Please don't post messages when you're drunk.

Thank you.

-- (This Must, January 06, 2000.

I think you may have Y2K confused with the Monica Lewinsky scandal.

Revelations 18

-- Simpleminded (, January 06, 2000.

Sorry Brent: I read it and I don't see the connection. If there had been a major collapse on New Year's Eve, PERHAPS one could have made a case that the judgement in "one hour" referred to the Roll-over, but I don't think that can be said now. Perhaps judgement in ONE QUARTER or ONE YEAR, but even that is unknown at this point.

Here is the text in case anyone else wants to read it and comment:

---REV 18:1 After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illumined with his glory. REV 18:2 And he cried out with a mighty voice, saying, "Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! And she has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird. REV 18:3 "For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the passion of her immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed acts of immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the wealth of her sensuality." REV 18:4 6 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, "Come out of her, my people, that you may not participate in her sins and that you may not receive of her plagues; REV 18:5 for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. REV 18:6 "Pay her back even as she has paid, and give back to her double according to her deeds; in the cup which she has mixed, mix twice as much for her. REV 18:7 "To the degree that she glorified herself and lived sensuously, to the same degree give her torment and mourning; for she says in her heart, 'I sit as a queen and I am not a widow, and will never see mourning.' REV 18:8 "For this reason in one day her plagues will come, pestilence and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for the Lord God who judges her is strong. REV 18:9 "And the kings of the earth, who committed acts of immorality and lived sensuously with her, will weep and lament over her when they see the smoke of her burning, REV 18:10 standing at a distance because of the fear of her torment, saying,' Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city! For in one hour your judgment has come.' REV 18:11 "And the merchants of the earth weep and mourn over her, because no one buys their cargoes any more; REV 18:12 cargoes of gold and silver and precious stones and pearls and fine linen and purple and silk and scarlet, and every kind of citron wood and every article of ivory and every article made from very costly wood and bronze and iron and marble, REV 18:13 and cinnamon and spice and incense and perfume and frankincense and wine and olive oil and fine flour and wheat and cattle and sheep, and cargoes of horses and chariots and slaves and human lives. REV 18:14 "And the fruit you long for has gone from you, and all things that were luxurious and splendid have passed away from you and men will no longer find them. REV 18:15 "The merchants of these things, who became rich from her, will stand at a distance because of the fear of her torment, weeping and mourning, REV 18:16 saying,' Woe, woe, the great city, she who was clothed in fine linen and purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls; REV 18:17 for in one hour such great wealth has been laid waste!' And every shipmaster and every passenger and sailor, and as many as make their living by the sea, stood at a distance, REV 18:18 and were crying out as they saw the smoke of her burning, saying,' What city is like the great city?' REV 18:19 "And they threw dust on their heads and were crying out, weeping and mourning, saying, 'Woe, woe, the great city, in which all who had ships at sea became rich by her wealth, for in one hour she has been laid waste!' REV 18:20 "Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you saints and apostles and prophets, because God has pronounced judgment for you against her." REV 18:21 6 And a strong angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, "Thus will Babylon, the great city, be thrown down with violence, and will not be found any longer. REV 18:22 "And the sound of harpists and musicians and flute-players and trumpeters will not be heard in you any longer; and no craftsman of any craft will be found in you any longer; and the sound of a mill will not be heard in you any longer; REV 18:23 and the light of a lamp will not shine in you any longer; and the voice of the bridegroom and bride will not be heard in you any longer; for your merchants were the great men of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your sorcery. REV 18:24 "And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth."

-- JoseMiami (, January 06, 2000.

Rev chp 18 could well be in fulfilment of the y2k period that we have only just entered into, but I have not said it is absolute fact that this is all because of y2k alone. I am saying that the y2k period may be the prophecy or the cause of leading up to what is written down here in chap 18 of the bible. Most striking are these verses, "And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise no more." (And what merchandise is that?) 'gold..silver..precious stones..pearls.. fine linen, purple, silk, scarlet (fashions), thyine, wood, ivory, wood, brass, iron, marble, cinnanon, odours, ointments, frankincense, wine, OIL, (I gather that this is not just your cooking oil type that you use in the handy kitchen), fine flour, wheat, beasts, sheep, horses, chariots (ancient term to describe our modern cars & trucks). Next verse goes on to say at the end... 'thou shalt find them no more at all.' ooer.. Then verse 15-23 of the rest of the chapter are very significant. The book of Rev is not for ancient times but is prophecies of our modern times.

Hope that helps.

-- Brent Nichols (, January 06, 2000.

Figurative language used to describe the fall of Israel and the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem in AD 70......clearly understood as that and fulfilled over 1900 years ago.....

It wasn't until the 1800's that some heretics came up with this modern disgraceful interpretation of the Book of Revelation. More recently, misguided souls such as Hal Lindsey in the 1960's fell into the same trap.

I suggest you go back and study early church history.....might do you a lot of good!

-- Craig (, January 06, 2000.

Craig, what about the Mark of the Beast? North wrote to me once on this subject and claimed this had occurred in 70 A.D., but offered no proof at all. Digital Angel and many other technologies are now being coalesced to bring about the dreaded mark system. I've written an entire book on this subject. I know enough about church history to know that a great deal was NOT fulfilled and is soon (I think) going to come to pass.

-- Truth (, January 06, 2000.

Furthermore Brent.....

Look closer at what you quoted: "for no man buyeth their merchandise no more." (And what merchandise is that?) 'gold..silver..precious stones..pearls.. fine linen, purple, silk, scarlet (fashions), thyine, wood, ivory, wood, brass, iron, marble, cinnanon, odours, ointments, frankincense, wine, OIL"......

That is NOT TRUE of today....all these things continue to be speaks clearly of Israel which was COMPLETELY decimated with the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem in AD70......guess what, they had chariots then! chariots are chariots......chariots are not automobiles! Frankincense was common then......God who knows all would surely be smart enough to say Chanel #5 if that is what he was talking about........

Israel was COMPLETELY destroyed and those that escaped death were what we today would call refugees....they were scattered.

John was writing to the 'Jewish Christians' of the day to warn them what was SOON about to happen, as the book of Revelations clearly states for its time frame......Can you spell S.O.O.N. you understand what soon means........don't come back with that prattle about a day for the Lord is as a thousand years because John wasn't writing to God, he was writing to warn the people.

Brent, do yourself a favor as I did myself one many years ago....put down the B.S. books such as the crap written by Lindsey, Jeffries, Marr, Van Impe, et al and stick with scripture and the study of early church history..........

-- Craig (, January 06, 2000.

Here's one good resource if you are interested in pursuing the subject further. Well researched and quite fascinating:

Asimov's Guide to the Bible

-- Arnie Rimmer (, January 06, 2000.

Oh, cut out the Mark of the Beast foolishnes.....PUHLEASE!!!!!!!!

The hand always was figurative for a person's actions and the forehead symbolic of a man's thoughts......there is nothing hard about that. So we have technology to implant what! This is fear-mongering that is even worse than the Y2K extreme doomers!!

-- Craig (, January 06, 2000.

God doesn't exist! - signed Asimov

Asimov is dead! - signed God


-- Y2Kook (, January 06, 2000.

There are some translation errors in your bible. In The King James Bible, the word MERCHANDISE means EVERYTHING that you buy or sell, otherwise the merchants OF THE EARTH would not be weeping and wailing after losing just a few cargo. The word here means everything. CARGO, SUPPLIES, you name it and of course what was the MERCHANDISE? Please Re-read verse 12 of a proper King James Translation, because this is not just talking about cargo, this is the whole kitchen sink that is being described here shortned in broad categories. "All Articles" is also a translation error and only means a small amount of things. "All manner" which is the King James translation means every type of thing that can be made or refined with it. The King James therefore is more correct in stating the word Merchandise instead of just the word cargo.

The word OIL in the King James is correct, meaning every kind of oil there is. That is not limited to oils in the kitchen or shop like in OLIVE OIL where the translators of your bible deliberately changed the meaning to make it sound different than what it originally was written to be. OIL here means all types of OIL and everything that can be refined or made with oil. I cannot see how the translation can mean anything different.

-- Brent Nichols (, January 06, 2000.

Way to go Craig! It doesn't add up that John would write a book that would make no sense to the people of his time because it's "really" intended for people who would read it in 1960 or 2000. It irks me, too when people use the Bible just to support their preconceived ideas.

-- Padre (, January 06, 2000.

"2 And he cried with a mighty voice, saying, Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, and is become a habitation of demons, and a hold of every unclean spirit, and a hold of every unclean and hateful bird.

3 For by the wine of the wrath of her fornication all the nations are fallen; and the kings of the earth committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth waxed rich by the power of her wantonness."

Hey, they're always saying that.

It's been applied to every generation in the history of the West. Often with reason.

-- Tom Carey (, January 06, 2000.

As the Savior would say, 'Ye do err..not knowing the scriptures.' The book of Rev has been misunderstood, it is not a book for ancient times only, search the scriptures and use a King James version for its more reliable than other translations. If the book of rev was only concerning israel's future, there would not be plagues mentioned in there about smiting the WHOLE EARTH, or is the bible saying that the whole earth is Israel?

-- Brent Nichols (, January 06, 2000.

The better thing than reading the KJV is to read it in the original language that John used: GREEK. The word in vs. 12 is gomon which means "cargo". Also one should read Revelation in light of the entire Old Testament, since both the author of Rev. and the readers were well versed in Scriptures. Especially Ezekiel 16, Jeremiah 2 and Hosea 9:1 that all point to the harlot (the unfaithful spouse) as being Israel and specifically the great city Jerusalem>

-- Padre (, January 06, 2000.

If you think the word 'CHARIOT' means only ancient chariots on horses for ancient Israel then that is because the scritures have not been properly searched. In the book of Nahum we are given a good clue as to what the prophecy of these 'chariots.' are.

'The chariots shall rage in the streets, and they shall justle one with another in the broad ways; they shall SEEM LIKE TORCHES, they shall RUN LIKE THE LIGHTNING.'

I've not heard of chariots that run like the lightning and rage in streets in ancient Israel that have torches or headlights, now have you? Can you imagine having to ride a chariot with two persons holding fire torches holding in one hand and in the other, the horse in front, bumping along the road and into each other that would be hilarious. Did they do it that way in Ancient Israel?

Since when was there streets in the broadways in Israel? isn't that another name for a motorway? Wasn't it just small chariot dirt roads they wern't very broad, about 15 or so feet wide. As a substitute for "headlights" since we are talking about ancient times, How long do you think the torches could burn for without the person getting burned? They did not have electricity in those days. Now another striking resembalance to modern automobiles is that the chariots shall SEEM LIKE TORCHES meaning they look like torches but are not torches, but modern car headlights that shine like toches, how else can the prophecy be any different. The other place I know where the chariots jostle one with another is in a traffic jam, or dragway racing. Ancient prophets saw these things and described them best they could in their ancient hebrew language.

-- Brent Nichols (, January 06, 2000.

1) Revelation 18 certainly DOES have a lot of relevance today. If our society were not corrupt (corrupt political leaders, businesses that seek only profit, "religious leaders" who do not believe in God, murder of unborn infants by the million, for four examples...), we would not have to fear Divine retribution. However, we should take heed of the admonition to come out of Babylon and avoid its ways.

2) Translation does make some difference. However, the basic sense that God is about to harshly judge "Babylon", and that we should not participate in "Babylon" to avoid that judgement, come through in virtually all translations that I've read (I've read it in 8 or 9 translations, including KJV). (Note: If you REALLY want to find out what Revelation most properly says, do read it in the Greek. It isn't really much harder than adequately learning old English to fully understand the KJV.)

3) Is Rev. 18 really Y2K related? I doubt it. But the chapter does make a telling comment on today's society...and our society could be the recipient of that judgement at any time.

-- Mad Monk (, January 06, 2000.


-- Michael Erskine (, January 06, 2000.

I personally feel that rev chapter 18 is stil yet to come, but believe that y2k could very well bring about its fulfillment because that chapter COULD BE describing a yet future worldwide collaspe of all the markets. Not just the collaspe of ancient Jerusalem. Read lev chapter 26 of the cursings to know why we have judgements in society.

-- Brent Nichols (, January 06, 2000.

Revelation is a group of pictures of a place in time. You cannot look at one alone. Chapter 18 is mentioned in Rev 14: 8 ,which is part of a time line of events. It is also mentioned in REv: 16:18-21, same group of events,a little differant perspective. Now go back to Isaiah ch 47. Same event. Scroll down to verses 10 and 11,more insights ,and mischief shall fall upon thee;thou shaltt not be able to put it off;and desolation shall come upon thee suddenly, which thou shalt not know.

-- (, January 06, 2000.

I agree that the Book of Revelation does have important things to say to our times, but I contend that the primary interpretation is the literal one, that is the one intended by the author, referring to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

-- Padre (, January 06, 2000.

You just saw 'End of Days' didn't you?

-- John Ainsworth (, January 06, 2000.

Padre, I do not concure,Rev 14:8,16:19,17:5,18:10 all speak spacifically to Babylon , the geat city, where as Jerusalam is mentioned in Rev ch ll.

-- (, January 06, 2000.

For am amazingly accurate book over 2,000 years old, Rev chapter 9 describes World War's I & II quite clearly, the Locusts are the planes and the helicopters, horses could be the tanks that issued fire and smoke out of their mouths.

Now if ths was ancient Israel, well we know it isn't because Locusts with men in them don't fly in those times, we only learnt how to fly just a century ago.

-- Brent Nichols (, January 06, 2000.

Lesson 48:

" C How does the language of the text reveal that the world capital will be destroyed by nuclear bombs?

1 The tremendous clouds from "the smoke of her burning" are mentioned twice.

2 John also records the great loss felt by kings, merchants, and sailors at sea who "stood afar off," for fear of the intense radiation in the vicinity of the burning city.

3 The thrice repeated reference to Babylon's destruc- tion coming in "one hour," serves to underscore the suddenness of the nuclear vaporization of the city.

4 This event will likely take place within a 60 minute time-period."

-- Hokie (, January 06, 2000.

Don't be silly

-- Matthew (, January 06, 2000.

'Smoke of her burning' is about EVERYBODY'S FINANCIAL LOSS caused through Y2K problems, is enough to make anybody wail and weep and on a global scale its a financial burning and the smoke of financial losses are now starting to rise. It's a different kind of burning, not a literal fire burning but it could be both, since there has been some fires already. It's mostly a spiritual meaning. I never mentioned the smoke being about nuclear bombs. 'Come in one hour judgement to babylon' that could be still future to come, for all I know when there are enough y2k problems infesting everything then the economy might go down in an hour of our time but I cannot say because that part I don't know.

-- Brent Nichols (, January 06, 2000.


-- Johnny (, January 06, 2000.

If you take one day equal to a year and you extrapolate one hour turns out to be about a couple of weeks. Shut off the power and you have no water ,no telecoms, no emergancy sytems in big buildings. In a couple of weeks , with the way people take advantage of times like this to riot. Revelation 16:19 The Great cit was seperated into three parts( ie Buildeburgs ,New World Order seperating the globe into three sectios)and the cities of the nations fell.....toast

-- (, January 06, 2000.


Get a life and wake up. You can apply everything in Revelation to today's world!

And to whomever, it is Revelation, not Revelations. It is the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

-- Vernon Hale (, January 06, 2000.

You guys are terrifying me!

My mother used to rant and rave about this, I think some of it sunk in.

In regards to the visions seen by Daniel and John, I think they described what they thought they had seen. How can they describe a car, when it didn't exist. Thus the reference to a horse. The ships they would assume contained gold and silver and gems; whatever was valuable at that time.

I believe it really could be happening in the near future. It's scary.

Brent, just out of curiosity, who do YOU think Babylon is? I respect your knowledge of The Bible.

-- cin (, January 06, 2000. could Revelation not be for today? Are you saying that the final book of the Bible, called by John, "The Revelation of Jesus Christ", which contains long vivid passages about events impacting the WHOLE world, concludes in the final chapters with the last judgement, and is the only book for which God commands a blessing to those that read it, has little relevance for us today, and is simply just a history note about the destruction of Israel in 70 AD?

I will be the first to admit that this book is difficult to understand, but difficult because it is awesome, not because it is obscure history.

This may be the most relevant discussion going.

Remember..."Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written: for the time is at hand. (Rev. 1:3)

-- Michael Johnson (, January 06, 2000.

How did the bible prophets see cars and our modern times when those things did not exist 2000 years ago? That is not difficult to explain because like with all things, God shows the future to them in visions.

Who do I think babylon is? Some think its just the Catholic Church. Actually is the whole world, government system, and everything in it that is not under God's laws but under a law of its own, that is what Babylon is.

You wrote: "In regards to the visions seen by Daniel and John, I think they described what they thought they had seen. How can they describe a car, when it didn't exist. Thus the reference to a horse. The ships they would assume contained gold and silver and gems; whatever was valuable at that time."

No. Those biblical references are talking about all things made with those materials, a careful reading makes this quite clear. 'All her dainty things' Another word for LUXERIES. Not just gold billion and silver or currency, but our common Gold and silver-plated items that we ship around, like the jewels (precious stones), knives, forks, how many other things can you think of that are made with plated silver or imitation gold that come from places like Made in China, Taiwan, England, ect. Gold, Silver, was the way the prophet grouped everything we have today into those categories. Why did you think the prophet was going to spend a couple of pages writing out all the merchandise, every single item? That would list into tens of thousands, so it had to be shortened, it makes sense.

-- Brent Nichols (, January 06, 2000.

It is not possible to reply to all posters, but Babylon is the United States of America. There are over 140 different scriptures that describe this End Time Nation and anyone who teaches otherwise has not properly researched the sciptures.

Furthermore, the Communitarian Network and the House Senate Committee are all promoting biometrics as a form of ECONOMIC control and this will soon be realized. NONE of this occurred in early church history, contrary to the like of Gary North and his reconstructionist ilk.

The point is, the mark of the beast depends upon technology, this is an ECONOMIC control of the ability to buy or sell. This mark is already in existence and will soon be world wide (see the promotion by the Communitarian Network for the example of voluntary and mandatory requirments for the mark). The mark is NOT far off.

Y2K was NEVER the issue, but rather the starting point to bring about greater ECONOMIC control. Think about it. Economic control REQUIRES high technology, computers and networks that WORK, not fail. Y2K if found the scriptures is the Great Falling Away. Right now, millions of Christians are doubting EVERYTHING because the "non-Y2K" event didn't HAPPEN, as they were told. They are now questioning EVERYTHING. What other world wide event can match this? None that I know of.

We have now been "set up" for further deception and illusions. Many people will refuse to keep searching for truth and will accept the teachings of false prophets and false teachers. Keep looking. God has hidden the truth, but it can indeed be found.

-- Truth (, January 07, 2000.

Not to make light of everyone's efforts, but so what? I believe one's first priority should be to "put their own house in order" so to speak, then if the Lord comes tomorrow or in y3k you'll be as ready as you can be. Do you think you can "cram" faith for judgement day? Personally, I feel one should worry more about events that one might be able to *change* than worrying about the end of the world. For any one of us, the "end of the world" might come tonight, regardless of what happens to the world at large.

Kinda ranting, but sincere,


-- Someone (, January 07, 2000.

This was sent to by our Chief a couple of days ago, thought it appropriate here.... (Hope the HTML works)
Tis one thing to read the Bible through, another thing to read to learn to do.
Tis one thing, too, to read it with delight, and quite another thing to read it right.
Some read it with design to learn to read, but to the subject pay little heed;
Some read it as their duty once a week, but no instruction from the Bible seek.
Some read to bring themselves into repute, by showing others how they can dispute;
While others read because their neighbors do, to see how long twill take to read it through.
Some read the Bible, they know not why, it sometimes happens in the way to lie;
While others read it with uncommon care; But all to find some contradiction there.
One reads with fathers "specs" upon his head, and sees the things just as his father did;
Another reads through Luther, Wesley, and Scott, and thinks it means just what they thought.
Some read to prove a pre-adopted creed, thus understanding little that they read;
And every passage in the book they bend, to make it suit that all important end.
Some people read, as I have often thought, to teach the book, instead of being taught.


Chief Crow Hand....

ALso, here is a link to what I believe is a good analysis/interpretation of Revelations: "Link"

Personally, I tend to agree with Frank. "Craming" Faith, is in itself fullfilling the prophicies, in order for there to be False Prophets, there must also be a False Faith to feed them. There are so many falling off one side of the fence or the other right now, this may just be a weeding out of those who "Crammed" themselves with a False Faith when faced with an apparent immediacy of something major happening to them. Look for the Truth in yourself, not in the world around you.... Wydo, Blue Hawk

-- BH (, January 07, 2000.

"I personally feel that Revelation is yet to be fulfulled"

That's the problem, when people interpret the bible according to their personal opinions and feelings. See 2 Peter 1:20-21 "there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." If anyone is to interpret the Scriptures correctly it is only by guidance from the Holy Spirit. So, if you say that Revelation primarily refers to the time in which we are living and I say it refers primarily to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. then who is right? Do you claim to have better contact with the Holy Spirit? the key is to find out what John understood it to mean when he wrote it, which is also what the people of the first century, (the intended audience- the seven churches in Asia) understood it to mean. To discover that we must look at the historical situation of the times, the cultural context, their understanding of the Old Testament, and take into account the entire book of Revelation as context rather than pulling select passages out. For a good analysis of all this, read "The Days of Vengeance, An Exposition of the Book of Revelation" by David Chilton. Anyone can come up with their "personal" interpretation and shoe-horn the text to fit what they want it to mean. The real task is to find out what the Holy Spirit intends it to mean. The Holy Spirit that still guides the Church today. (Jn. 14:26). Freeman, if the author can speak of Jerusalem figuratively in Rev. 11:8 and call it Sodom or Egypt, why can he not also refer to it figuratively as Babylon? All these places persecuted God's people. At the time of the writing of the Book of Revelation, God's people are the followers of God's own Son, Jesus Christ and they are being persecuted by the apostate Jews of Jerusalem, who said, "We have no king but Caesar. (Jn 19:15) I am not saying that we can't learn anything from Revelation about our own times, but I am saying that the only primary interpretation that we can give to it with certainty is that of the events of the first century. All the rest is speculation.

-- BeerMan (, January 07, 2000.

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