If Tim's new initiatives pass, there will be lots of people who will no longer be able to take the bus to their jobs downtown.

So, my question is: where will all those people park?? A corollary question is: does a parking garage count as a "road" in Tim-speak? In other words, will we be able to use transportation funds to build them, or would they have to come out of the 10%?

Ultimately, I suppose, businesses will simply be forced to move out of downtown and into Snohomish County and other suburban areas. I guess what Tim & Co. really want is a bunch of new mini-Bellevues (and to destroy Seattle for having the temerity to vote against 695!).

-- PeterH (hartikka@aol.com), January 06, 2000

Answers

Actually, the city of seattle is doing this on their own just fine by keeping sales taxes at oppressively high levels, keeping shoppers out of Seattle and King county, and jacking parking meters up to levels so high that Seattle admitted that it was keeping people from the downtown area, thus causing a loss of revenue. See my previous post on lowering taxes to increase revenues. The higher property taxes continue to go, the more people move to the outlying counties, causing more traffic.

Always remember this absolute universal truth. Government will screw it up first. Just like the whole era of 'robber baron railroad tycoons'. Government granted huge amounts of land to individuals so that the railroad system could rapidly expand without all the red tape. It all ties together quite nicely.

-- Paul Oss (jnaut@earthlink.net), January 06, 2000.

Um, your standard-issue anti-government rant did not answer the question. What is downtown Seattle supposed to do to meet the future parking needs of employees who live in the suburbs and who will be forced to commute by car?

Incidentally, I wonder if you could provide some proof that King County's retail business is suffering. Been to Pacific Place lately? Westlake Center? How about Bellevue Square?

And my original post said nothing about people who work in downtown Seattle moving their HOMES to the suburbs. To a large extent, they're already there.

-- PeterH (hartikka@aol.com), January 06, 2000.

Hopefully, roads means roads. Not parking lots, not park n rides, not ferries.

"Um, your standard-issue anti-government rant did not answer the question. What is downtown Seattle supposed to do to meet the future parking needs of employees who live in the suburbs and who will be forced to commute by car? "

Dang! This sounds like self induced punishment to me. After years of transportation demand management encouraging employers to eliminate parking for their employees, threatening them if they didn't get rid of their parking slots. Given this record, I don't feel any particular urgent need to bail it out. They made their bed. Let them lie in it. If they want to tax THEIR citizens to undue the mistakes that Seattle elected officials mad, fine. Otherwise, let the jobs go somewhere that has had more reasonable policies. I sure don't see why the rest of the state ought to bail out Seattle for it's counterproductive policies.

http://cityofseattle.net/td/pdf/entrtsp4.pdf Transportation pricing strategies seek to increase the cost of individual trips (e.g., through higher gas taxes or parking fees) and to transfer some of the fixed costs to a use basis (e.g., basing insurance charges on mileage). A number of transportation pricing strategies could generate significant transportation revenues and also have a substantial impact on people's travel decisions, thereby reducing congestion and pollution.

-- Mark Stilson (mark842@hotmail.com), January 06, 2000.

The parking problem is BY DESIGN. We have already paid good money to create it. You now want us to pay AGAIN to abate it? I don't think so.

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/commission/catalog.pdf

Encourage adoption of policies that influence the price and supply of parking The state, local governments and transit agencies should: Adopt parking policies and strategies that encourage use of HOV or non- motorized transportation alternatives, in coordination with growth management and commute trip reduction Continue to support initiatives at the federal level to make all employee non-SOV subsidies tax exempt, AND TO INCREASINGLY TAX EMPLOYER- PROVIDED PARKING The state and local governments should: Identify separate parking and office space costs for all public office facilities so appropriate parking fees may be assessed for employees and the public The state should: Provide incentives that encourage local governments to revise parking codes in support of TDM

-- Craig Carson (craigcar@crosswinds.net), January 06, 2000.

"Um, your standard-issue anti-government rant did not answer the question. What is downtown Seattle supposed to do to meet the future parking needs of employees who live in the suburbs and who will be forced to commute by car?"

That's cause I don't have to, because your question was one of those standard issue traps. You expect me to first accept the premise that the amount of displaced transit users that will suddenly have to drive to downtown seattle will overflow the existing parking. I don't accept that premise.

Secondly, the state doesn't need to cut transit in the first place. Pay closer attention to the news, Petey, calculated surplus gonna go up next (this) year. Revenue going up. Everything going up up up up up. The problem is the state won't rearrange the budget, there, cowboy. I have no sympathy, no remorse, no regrets. Either the gov't starts putting some of those touchy-feely, nice to haves on the cutting block and starts funding the need to haves, or they're S.O.L. Got me a stack of newspaper articles here talking about ALLLLL the new expenditures that the state and city is gonna make that aren't even on the table for cuts, all the while they're screaming about cuts in necessary service. B'sides, I don't pay fer parking downtown cause I live just a few blocks from there. I don't buy large ticket items in the state of Washington cause sales tax is too high... beginning to get the picture?

-- Paul Oss (jnaut@earthlink.net), January 06, 2000.

Paul--you really should run for governor. You've won me over. You sound just like the policy wonks who are in there now. Tell us what the state of WA would look like if you were the governor.

-- jim curtin (jcurtin@dellmail.com), January 06, 2000.

destroy downtown Seattle?? What a wonderful thought!!

Downtowns are all ratholes anyway. Why don't you government loving geeks ever bitch about the criminal activities OF the government. Heck the Seattle city council and Norm Rice should have been prosecuted under the RICO act for their games.. And what happened??? The continue in their untouchable status performing illegal acts while they step on our necks

-- maddjak (maddjak@hotmail.com), January 06, 2000.

Peter--"If Tim's new initiatives pass, there will be lots of people who will no longer be able to take the bus to their jobs downtown."

Oh really, how many?

If your fundamental premise is this well supported, it's likely the rest of your argument will invoke reminders of the proverbial sieve.

"So, my question is: where will all those people park?? A corollary question is: does a parking garage count as a "road" in Tim-speak? In other words, will we be able to use transportation funds to build them, or would they have to come out of the 10%?"

Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

"Ultimately, I suppose, businesses will simply be forced to move out of downtown and into Snohomish County and other suburban areas. I guess what Tim & Co. really want is a bunch of new mini-Bellevues (and to destroy Seattle for having the temerity to vote against 695!)."

Yep, this is what they want. Sheesh.

-- Brad (knotwell@my-deja.com), January 07, 2000.

Jim: Paul--you really should run for governor. You've won me over. You sound just like the policy wonks who are in there now. Tell us what the state of WA would look like if you were the governor."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!

I sound 'just like' the policy wonks who are in there now??? Oh yes, everyday I turn on the news I'm hearing the Washington State gov't go on ad nauseum about lowering the sales tax, lowering property taxes. What are the color of the skies in your world, jim? Hang on a sec, I gotta get some other people here at work to read your comment...hang on...

Yep, as I guessed it, they're all laughing too. Jimbo, you keep on thinkin' that. You go riiiggghhhht ahead. Policy wonks in the capitol talking about 'lowering taxes'. Riiiiiiggghhhhht.

-- Policy Wonk (jnaut@earthlink.net), January 07, 2000.

We will just turn downtown in to a large park, no cars allowed.

Either you ride a bus or you walk.

Don't you know they don't like cars down there. You need to convince your company to move to the suburbs.

This is how I feel about Seattle.

-- Dan Campbell (dila813@hotmail.com), January 08, 2000.