lisa answers to the Charges that she 'outed' Hoff.

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

I've thought long and hard all day whether to respond or just let it die, but I need to straighten this up. I'm mailing Hoff this URL so can respond, should he see fit.

A few months ago, over in Bok's, when it first opened, maybe 7 or 8 of us were over there and Hoff and I believe Anita were the only optimists present. Hoff had mentioned in the chat room that he'd written a book and I was ribbing him at to the possible titles. He then emailed me privately and did ask that I 'not spread it around'. I didn't: number one, I've always admired the guy, because he's an expert at ERP, the big stuff, not a pc weenie like so many of our other optimists- and number two, who cares?

I did mention to 'a' privately some time ago - we were discussing various participants' technological credentials - that Hoff'd written a book.

There was no intended malice in that disclosure, just fun Yourdonite trivia. If I'd been 'spreading it around', and somebody wanted to act on that information, it'd been disseminated and Hoff 'outed' long ago. Hoff's been attacking Yourdon long enough; surely it would have been used as ammo had the book deal been widely known.

Seems that 'a' wanted to draw a parallel twixt the perceived hucksterism of writing books for personal profit. I agree with 'a' and most others here that Ed was not huckstering - de Jager was, and still IS - but I would not have posted here regarding Hoff's book.

If it makes you feel any better, Hoff, the most vociferous optimists in the game(and trolls: they've threatened to 'out' me as well) know my name, place of work, etc. etc. Doesn't bother me: I'm not afraid to defend any position I've ever held in this forum or anywhere else. In fact, one of the most vociferous optimists spread my data amongst other well-known optimists, but I didn't sue or stomp off in a hoff. Er, huff.

I'm displeased with the way the disclosure unfolded. Feel free to call me an idiot, mis-informed, certifiable, etc. but you cannot call me malicious.. That's not me. Well, maybe with trolls....

I'm bout had it with people - particularly Hoff, who I otherwise respect - attacking Yourdon on the book thing.

There ya have it.

-- lisa (lisa@work.now), January 05, 2000

Answers

Lisa,

Seems like you are trying to pass the blame over to "a." If Hoffmeister asked you to keep quiet about it, you should have. As far as I'm concerned, your answer is worthless.

-- (SeenIt@ll.com), January 05, 2000.


No, I'm taking the blame. I just want it known that there was no pre- meditated attempt to 'out' Hoff.

-- lisa (lisa@work.now), January 05, 2000.

Lisa. No need to explain anything. Hoffs crys of victimhood were transparent and nauseating in light of his double standard. Ignore the hacks and keep up the good work.

-- PA Engineer (PA Engineer@longtimelurker.com), January 05, 2000.

lisa,

You are a kind and thoughtful person.

Please continue as before.

-- Bill P (porterwn@one.net), January 05, 2000.


IMO, Hoff got what he deserved for his relentless and unnecessarily vindictive attack on Yourdon. All you guys did was mention that he had written a book and profited off a product that many customers are unsatisfied with. He has made it clear that he's a SAP consultant, so somebody put 2+2 together, searched amazon for SAP books, and noted the name similarity.

Hoff reminds me of a spoiled brat that quits the game and takes his ball home when he doesn't get his way on the playground.

-- whatever (not.here@not.there), January 05, 2000.



lisa,

I wouldn't worry about it. I think it would have been just a matter of time before someone figured it out.

While Hoff and I don't see eye-to-eye on Y2K, he is entitled to his opinion. He has been a valuable contributor to this forum.

I just wish he would cool it with the personal attacks on Ed. After all, Ed didn't create the Y2K problem, and it is a very real problem. All he did was comment on it, the same way that Hoff commented on SAP. <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), January 05, 2000.


Lisa, Hmmm...I think it's admirable of you to admit this, but an apology would seem in order, yet you take this opportunity to "lecture". Too bad. I myself like to jump on people at times, but this isn't one of them. And your biggest mistake was telling "aa@aa" anything in confidence, the guy is not very well adjusted, and certainly not trustworthy, to put it kindly.

Sysman, Regarding Yourdon, I wrote a pretty scathing piece in the forum once, and Ed responded. In fact he responded so well, that I came to view him as a decent guy, other than the careless with his speculations in the TB2000 book, but he isn't the first author to do that. It's how he handles the Y2K aftermath that will give me my final impression though. I have seen a few candid admissions of "I was wrong" from a few well known figures, and will be interested in Ed's post Y2K response to those in the forum who have supported him.

Regards

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), January 05, 2000.


Uh, who are you again?

-- Bad Company (puzzled@shootingstar.com), January 05, 2000.

Hi FactFinder,

Have you read Ed's 1/1 comments yet? <:)=

http://www.yourdon.com/index 2.html

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), January 05, 2000.


FF: I had her permission, asshole. Oh, and I keep my thermostat at 68o.

-- a (a@a.a), January 05, 2000.


Hey Sysman, good evenin'

As one old, old programmer to all others, it is true that any person with half sense can figure out what origins spew forth what vile substances.

It is with all possibility that many other sources that knew or could have found out "HOFFs" identity could have made it know -- other than Lisa.

Be sure to look at the link Sysman provided.

-- mR,kENNEDY (MrK@home.now), January 06, 2000.


darn, I hate it when that happens

-- Mr.K (MrK@home.tonight), January 06, 2000.

Hi Mr. K, long time no see!

Always good to see an old friend check in here!

So how have you been, and what do you think of the current Y2K status?

<:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), January 06, 2000.


Hey Sysman,

Even though I went into "retirement" about 9 months ago, I have been very compelled to be in the county remediation. They are basically compliant(water, sewer. traffic lights, etc), but the local bank branches, realty companies, accounting firms, and insurance companies have been having FOF calls now that mean errant February statements. It's now in the works. We can't say that anyone will get reliable info for 1/2 of the county at this point - in particular, the land/property tax statements.

-- Mr.Kennedy (MrK@home.tonight), January 06, 2000.


Thanks for the info Mr. K.

I think we're in for some very interesting times over the next few months. I've gotta admit, that I've scaled back my concerns, after the rollover seems to have gone so well, and this first week has shown us only "minor" problems so far. I'll probably scale it back a little more if month-end goes as well. Time will tell.

If I were you Mr K, I'ld go for it! I don't think I'll ever "retire," but that choice is a ways off for me, I'm only 48. This "business" has been my job, and my hobby, for my entire adult life. I can't imagine what I would do with myself without it.

Whatever you do Mr. K, just be sure to take care of yourself! And don't be such a stranger here!

Happy New Year!!! <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), January 06, 2000.



Lisa, Don't trouble yourself over the name calling some are doing, particularily Huffie.

He has shown that he believes he is able to peer into your soul and determine what motivates each of us. Next he will be reading minds.

Lisa, huffy has shown himself to be a weak kneed snipe, incapable of commenting from a position in the light. Ignore him. He did not deserve an answer.

If you spoke out of confidence you should not have done that BUT which of us has not done the same? Certainly not Huffie, he would never do such a thing. Neither would he just step up to the plate and hit a home run but admitting he did wrong.

I expect everyone else has spoken out of confidence at one time or another and will pretty much just say, don't do it again. Then move on. I am sorry you got burnt BUT

Huffie got exactly as much as he gave. I think it is funny, no I think it is one of the cleanest, most beautifull bits of poetic justice I have seen this mill. heh...

-- Michael Erskine (Osiris@urbanna.net), January 06, 2000.


Huffie got exactly as much as he gave. I think it is funny, no I think it is one of the cleanest, most beautifull bits of poetic justice I have seen this mill. heh...

-- Michael Erskine (Osiris@urbanna.net), January 06, 2000.

Why poetic justice? Can you explain just exactly what it is you believe Hoff did that he deserves what was done to him? If you cannot justify what you said then it will be obvious that you are just spouting off mindlessly.

-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), January 06, 2000.


Cherri; oh! my! I thought you were reading the forum posts. You mean you have not been following the soaps today? It is really quite simple. Nothing like trying to understand embeddeds.

It went like this: 1) Huffie insults Ed's integrity while hiding behind his anonymity.

2) I call him a coward for insulting the gentleman's integrity

3) I dare him to out himself.

4) He fails to do so... someone else mentions a book published by somebody named Whatzit Hoffman

5) Huffie finally outs himself

6) I bait him for two days HOPING that there is some sanity and dignity behind his behavior.

7) He finally takes the bait.

8) I make the appropriate apology.

9) He childishly spits in my face.

Now you are here...

Want to play a game Cherri or will you be satisfied to watch something you have never understood and decide whether it is a REAL threat or not, namely cross cascading defaults.

Huffie, got what he deserved. When and if he is ever grown up enough to admit that he slandered the man while wearing a mask and could not take the same medicine himself, I MIGHT be willing to engage in further discourse with him. Perhaps not... Not loss on EITHER side.

So Cherri, see my recent thread... perhaps you and I and Ken can do a threesome.

-- Michael Erskine (Osiris@urbanna.net), January 06, 2000.


Michael:

What seems to be the problem here? You seem to be making two points that I can see:

(1) It's ok to break your promises *provided* that someone you don't like gets hurt by doing so.

(2) Yourdon's integrity depends on the name used by whoever questions it.

Neither of these points appeals to me very much, I must admit. Your defense of these points mostly by self-righteous name-calling doesn't have much appeal either.

It's pretty clear to all but the most determinedly blind that Yourdon indeed tried to "cash in on the y2k craze", and that he's now engaged in furious damage control. In my eyes, considering their post- rollover writings, Gary North has come out looking a whole lot better than Yourdon, in terms of integrity. And I find that most interesting, and a bit saddening.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), January 06, 2000.


its really funny that michael foreskin says that Hoff smeared people "anonymously"; when the debunkers found out that he posted to this forum under the handle of "...@....." to do his slandering! LOL!

Then he has the balls to post this rehtoric here! ROTFLMAO!!!

(BTW, I found and saved a post that confirms he did indeed do this)

PCTKB

-- polly outings (here@yar.all), January 10, 2000.


Moderation questions? read the FAQ