The shoe on Hoffmeister's other foot

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I skimmed your lengthy thread where you lambasted Yourdon for warning folks that he believed y2k would result in an economic depression. For some reason, you seem to believe that three days after rollover, the fact that power remains makes him a y2k laughing stock.

Now, I would quiz you on whether a power failure caused the Great Depression, but I'll leave the economist bashing to my follow up thread with Ken Decker. Instead, I have just one question, in light of your treatment of Ed:

I understand from a colleague that you are the author of a book on SAP programming. What do you thing the folks at Hershey and the other companies that have had unfavorable SAP experiences think of you and the money you've made off your book?

-- a (a@a.a), January 04, 2000

Answers

Tooooooo-sshaaaayyyy, a!

Kook

-- Y2Kook (Y2Kook@usa.net), January 04, 2000.


Unless they bought his book, and their SAP implementations failed due to the information contained therein, I don't expect that they should think anything of him one way or the other.

Now that Y2K is over, I guess this now will just become a general purpose forum for faulty logic and poorly reasoned arguments?

-- b (b@b.b), January 04, 2000.


a -- now, get ready for more of "Hoffmeister's" sophistry (he has a canned answer to this question, as you may remember). Basicall, as always, though, he stakes out the moral high ground for himself - surprise!

I'll email you separately - would "love" to check out his book. I assume the name "Hoffy" is replaced by a real one?

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), January 04, 2000.


Now don't bug the Hoff person too much - he was very close to correct on most of his many FAA expectations......they did much, much better than I expected.

-- Robert A Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), January 04, 2000.

Maybe This One?

-- May Bea (b@b.b), January 04, 2000.


Ah, THEODORE HOFFMAN. No wonder he is so self-righteous. He thinks publishing a book gives him the right. I see. Mine should be on the market soon. Maybe then I too can be a justifiable "bung vortex".

-- Just_me (yerbuddy@guess.who), January 04, 2000.

Check out the reviews.

It looks like Hoffy wrote a book the same way he posts on the internet.

Simple, but lacks depth.

-- nothere nothere (notherethere@hotmail.com), January 04, 2000.


Once again we see the anonymous mr. a@a.a and Russ "bigdog" Lipton team up to smear an individual they don't care to have on this forum. LOL!

hey "a" want to answer this thread on embedded systems? You know, the one you were so cocksure about? You and sysman? remember that one? hmmmm?

-- ,kxdufyp (lsztvwer@skudptv2346.wleor87tpg23), January 04, 2000.


A "colleague", huh?

Ah well, serves me right for actually trusting one of the more infected doomers.

Though the irony of being "outted" by an "a@a.a" is a little too much.

As for Hershey, unless they actually bought the book and screwed up because of it, I doubt they care much. Besides, perhaps, wishing they had read it.

Just a guess, but I think there are far more satisfied customers of SAP than not.

But the convoluted logic on this forum never ceases to amaze me.

One of the main reason I posted anonymously was to avoid the impression that I was attempting to personally profit.

Which do you think would have sold more books?

Anyway, enjoy folks. Going to settle in to watch the Sugar Bowl.

-- Hoffmeister (hoff_meister@my-deja.com), January 04, 2000.


Robert -- my only problem with Hoff (and it is intense, as you may have noticed!) is his nasty and arrogant determination to make Ed the incarnation of all evil. Otherwise, I have enjoyed and appreciated his posts over the months (all except the banking one ....).

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), January 04, 2000.


And Big Dog stakes out the moral high ground like this:

"get ready for more of "Hoffmeister's" sophistry...he has a canned answer..."

Yep, we know even before we read it that Hoff's response will be canned sophistry. Big Dog the Ethical has spoken. Har!

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), January 04, 2000.


Hey, I think Hoff Meister is incorrect if he thinks that Yourdon is the incarnation of all evil. He should know that it is Gary North!

-- DAVID (tdavidc@arn.net), January 04, 2000.

Nice tap dance Hoff. Looks like that ought to shut you up for a while.

And Flint, at least BigDog hasn't stooped to accusing someone he doesn't agree with of having "a dick in their mouth" as you have.

-- a (a@a.a), January 04, 2000.


Hoff; funny thing is it is damned near impossible to remain anonymous in this medium. Perhaps you were simply outed because it was time to take your medicine.

Want to play a game?

-- Michael Erskine (Osiris@urbanna.net), January 04, 2000.


That reminds me, where's Milne lately? Surely you can dig up some classics, kind of a hit parade?

Where is Ken Decker to point out that bullies are always sore losers when the tables are turned. Failing that, I guess 'a' and Big Dog need to demonstrate this for all to see.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), January 04, 2000.



Flint; :)

-- Michael Erskine (Osiris@urbanna.net), January 04, 2000.

It's like "old home" week on this thread. I had almost thought "a" would disappear... but the fates have smiled upon me. It is almost comforting to know "a" is still waiting for the mother ship "Meltdown" to land. (laughter) Oh, it's a "Gary North-class" star cruiser... tremendous range, but no navigational equipment.

"a" will still be talking about Y2K failures in 2007. As for another Great Depression, if it happens, Y2K will not be cause. Like the first Great Depression, it will take structural weaknesses in the economy compounded by bad policy decisions. You are mostly wrong now, "a." You'll be wrong the rest of the way within the next few months.

As for Russ Lipton (it seems we're all using our real names now), I clearly see your determination to make Ed Yourdon a saint. You've defended vigorously at every possible turn. Perhaps Ed is somewhere between the two extremes?

Flint... I'm not sure where Paul Milne is. Perhaps 7-11 had an opening? Or maybe he's on the Hill lobbying for his Earned Income Credit? Or maybe he has more sense than "a" and is just hiding out? Nope... my guess... waiting for the next viable threat to beat the "doom doom" drum.

As for bullies, Flint, you are correct. Though I must add this. The most rewarding part is not watching the odd "Polly" thump the forum bullies... it's watching the bullies cling to an idea so obviously (and increasingly) wrong. More than point made before rollover, this proves a lack of intellectual integrity.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), January 04, 2000.


Hi Ken; I thought you were gone.

-- Michael Erskine (Osiris@urbanna.net), January 04, 2000.

Ken, if I'm not mistaken, in your 'predictions thread' you used July 2000 as the date we would assess who was right and who was wrong.

My calendar says 4 Jan...are you sure yours is compliant?

-- a (a@a.a), January 04, 2000.


No, Ken's hangin 10, waiting for his 'sharp recession'.

What a doomer.

-- lisa (lisa@work.now), January 04, 2000.


Ken, I know how you delight in using my real name with your customary "civility" - or is it patronizing sarcasm?

By contrast, people who understand civility on the Net don't play those games.

Or shall I reveal Hoffmeister's real name and do the equivalent of taunt him with it? Display your address each time I post?

None of this has to do with covering anything up (my email has always been real and I am known by my real name to dozens of posters off the board). It's obvious to most of them (who have emailed me about it over the months) that you "get off" on this kind of thing. They find it revolting. Rather sad.

Funny how many on this board like to be seduced by you and your holier-than-thou "politeness".

But I suppose when YOU patronize, it's acceptable. LOL.

It sounds bold to accuse me of making Yourdon out to be a saint. No. Just honorable. Sorry that you don't know the difference. Though, for that matter, it's also too bad the word "saint" is poisoned as well by your sarcasm. Biblically, it's a clean, simple, sound term for any Christian.

You-Flint make brave noises about "bullies" while bullying yourselves and defending the bullies you like (ie, "Hoffy"). For all Andy's bouts of temper, he has none of the shrewd nastiness that you do when you choose to "let it out". Are you really that blind? I'm asking that sincerely, not sarcastically. Probably you are ....

I DON'T claim to be above the fray here. When Hoffmeister pulls this game over and over again, it infuriates me. Frankly, I don't care what you think about that or about me.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), January 04, 2000.


Big Dog:

Ignore Kenny the cockroach...he is and always will be a shallow, little(in all meanings) man with the depth of a saucer and empathy to match. Everyone who has been at this forum for any length of time appreciates you and your postings - and recognizes kenny for what he is: a yuppy twit.

-- catfish joe (joe6pack@bottomdweller.net), January 04, 2000.


Catfish -- thanks but the last thing we need is a popularity contest here, one way or the other. I'm simply not going to apologize for standing up for an honorable person while "Hoffmeister"-Flint-Decker kick him in the balls because they think they can get away with it now.

Sorry to put it so bluntly but that's what's really happening.

Talk about "bullies".

Sick.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), January 04, 2000.


Russ,

I do delight in using your real name... and I hope people remember your real behavior on this forum. A lecture on civility from you... you must be joking. While you've cleaned up your act of late, you have engaged in some of the forum's most virulent name calling. If you must know, Russ, I might find your alias more agreeable if it better described you. In your time on this forum, you have proven yourself "small" in almost every sense of the word.

As for "Hoff," I believe his real name is now a matter of public knowledge. Use it as you see fit.

I do know and some of the forum regulars have a tight little clique. I'm sure you are chummy with the forum sysops. In fact, Russ, you might be voted forum "homecoming king" if you play your card rights. My concern on this forum was never about popularity... but about Y2K.

You were wrong about Y2K, Russ. "The code is broken" and "We started too late" have been been debunked. In this, you have good company. Some smart people were fooled by Y2K. My issue has always been HOW you were wrong about Y2K. You have been militant, attacking, rude and evasive. I find your tactics revolting.

Yourdon may be honorable... and he may not. He has been civil on this forum and he exercised his right to "make a buck." I never completedly trusted him as a Y2K reporter because he was engaged in Y2K commerce... a conflict of interest you refused to see. In short, Russ, I have a higher opinion of Yourdon than you.

As for bullies... when pushed, I push back. You'll not find a post where I found some unsuspecting author and launched a vicious personal attack. You'll find me trading verbal punches on occasion, but only with those who decided jab at me first. I have questioned Yourdon's behavior, including his "Sayonara." When he wrote a book, launched a web site, an MLM venture, a video, etc., he placed himself in the public light. As a "leader" in the Y2K movement, Yourdon deserved scrutiny. If you had a shred of intellectual integrity, you'd realize this.

It is fitting you and Catfish Joe posted together on this thread. Aside from an education, you are quite the same.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), January 05, 2000.


Ken -- You're entitled to your opinion of Y2K and of me. As you say, this forum (not to mention, life) isn't a popularity contest. The rabidity of your post-rollover threads and those of Flint and Hoffmeister speak for themselves.

I have no problem with the notion that Ed has more integrity than I do -- nor with the notion that his actions can or should bear scrutiny. But it doesn't make this thread and your participation on it any less "bullying".

You have "given" as much as you've "gotten" on this forum over the months - you just do it in your own way and with your own "style". We all seem justified in our own eyes, don't we?

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), January 05, 2000.


Hoffmeister, I have appreciated your intelligent posts over the months, what we have seen so far of Y2K gives evidence that you certainly knew what you were talking about. My thanks to you.

aa@aa's contributions on the other hand usually consists of calling people names, no IQ required (or observed) there.

Regards,

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), January 05, 2000.


Follow-up thread: here.

-- lisa (lisa@work.now), January 05, 2000.

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