Must Read Article on Michael Hyattgreenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
Jan. 1, 2000 | americanwasteland.com
Now that January 1, 2000 has arrived, we must deal with a severe Y2K crisis--what to do with the hundreds of charlatans, idiots, fearmongers and wackos who churned out thousands of alarmist Y2K books, magazine articles, survival guides, audio cassettes, DVDs and videos.
The secular wackos may get off easy, but we in the Christian community have only one option for the false prophets amongst us--we must stone them.
I weep over us Christians because we poor slobs have once again proved beyond doubt what the second century satirist and playwright Lucian said about the Christian community--we are a pathetic, gullible lot. How else to explain the twisting of a simple software problem, some programs' inability to distinguish the year 2000 from 1900, into a full-blown world crisis? Some of us allowed our apocalyptic tendencies to be manipulated into hysteria. And who were the chief manipulators? Secular hucksters out for a quick buck? No, "Christian" hucksters out for a quick buck, primarily.
The Y2K issue became a profitable cottage industry for the Christian publishing community eager to cash in on the fears stirred up by so-called Christian experts. However, there is no moral, ethical or spiritual distinction between Jim and plump little Tammy Faye Bakker coaxing cash out of the gullible for time share condos at a biblical theme park and alarmist writers generating Benjamins for themselves and their co-conspiring publishers by scaring the beejeebers out of the faithful. The only difference is that one is criminal securities fraud under United States federal law. Alas, while Jim Bakker ended up in a halfway house, the "Christian" Y2K writers and publishers will end up in the Bahamas with suitcases full of cash.
The truly fascinating aspect of human nature is that these same writers and publishers will be able to come along again in a few years, and exploit the next great fear from the exact same audience of victims.
Several years ago, I was appointed by the local federal court to represent a telemarketer who preyed upon the elderly, and had bilked individuals for thousands of dollars each. In the course of my investigation and research I learned that these telemarketers would go back to the same victims over and over again because they were so gullible, and never caught on to the scam. Telemarketers even shared information about certain gullible individuals with each other so that all could get in on the action, like a shark feeding frenzy.
Since stoning the offenders gives rise to some church/state and legal complexities, perhaps all we can do with the flim flammers amongst us, is expose them, ridicule them, and call upon them (and their publishers) to acknowledge guilt, or gross error. (Don't count on spiritually convicting them to the point of disgorging themselves of their ill-gotten gain like Zacchaeus did. That would presuppose that these folks have a conscience that could be moved by the Holy Spirit.)
The worst single "Christian" offender has to be Michael S. Hyatt. Hyatt has fed at the fearmongering tit for some time. He has written the bestseller The Millennium Bug (1999 paperback), The Millennium Bug: How To Survive the Coming Chaos (1998 hardback), The Y2K Personal Survival Guide (1998 hardback), Y2K: The Day The World Shut Down (1998). He also has the video Y2K: Don't Be Scared--Be Prepared (1999) and the audio cassette Y2K: What Every Christian Should Know (1999). My, what a busy little huckster. One of the Y2K survival problems Hyatt addresses is alternate fuel supplies when the world's power plants shut down. One solution missed by Hyatt is the proposal that several third world nations could survive for years living off the energy generated by a bonfire of Hyatt's now worthless crapheap of books and tapes.
Hyatt is a Senior Vice-President and Associate Publisher at Thomas Nelson, one of the nation's largest "Christian" book publishers. Which goes to prove the point that even nut cakes can and do run major corporations every day. The real question for the American Christian community is whether there will be any consequences for Hyatt or Thomas Nelson Publishers as a result of their scam. I think not, and doubt they care.
There's a scene in the Robert Redford movie, Indecent Proposal, where Redford as a billionaire proposed to sleep with the married Demi Moore for one night for a million dollars. Moore and her financially desperate husband, played by Woody Harrelson, agree. Afterwards, there's that famous scene of Moore and Harrelson, semi-unclad, rolling around on their bed in all the money. I imagine Hyatt and Thomas Nelson woke up on January 1, 2000, and rolled around nude in all their cash made off their duping of millions of gullible sheep.
I see Hyatt and Thomas Nelson, naked, and in bed together, counting their money from the Great 1999 Sheep Fleecing. It's bad enough for sheep to be fleeced, but I suspect Hyatt and Tommie Nelson of sheep sexual molestation as well.
Jan. 1, 2000 | americanwasteland.com
D. Marty Lasley, ) 2000 | All rights reserved. This article may be copied, quoted or distributed for any noncommercial purpose with proper attribution.
-- Look (email@example.com), January 02, 2000
Hindsight's always 20/20 - you are a coward for writing this now that you think you know the results of Y2K. Further, keep in mind that 95% of the US$600 Billion was spent on remediating software systems not embedded chips/systems.
While your enjoying your 20/20 hindsight in your rear-view mirror . . . you're running full tilt into a brick wall!
-- Chickens (Aren't@Hatched.Yet), January 02, 2000.
Well I'm not a professed Christian (been there done that). I never bought any books, magazines, tapes, videos (they were even handing them out for free). Anything and everything I needed or wanted to know about Y2K I found on the web. I didn't buy any gold or silver, didn't purchase anything solar, didn't buy a generator, and all the food I bought was at a discount or coupon clipped. I didn't cash in my 401K nor my IRA, however, I did move it to a safer haven, and I now can move it back to wherever I choose. I have a feeling that this experience will leave a rotten taste in many mouths. It's been a good learning experience for many, one which I will never forget. But you really can't blame the opportunists for their entrepreneural spirit, this is America the land of the free market society. Take a ride to Barnes and Noble and pick out a book or magazine--Penthouse would be a good one. There's no difference between the publisher of Penthouse or the publisher of Sunset Magazine, they have a product to sell and if people are willing to pay for it, it's no one's business. Jimmy Swaggert and Jim Baker had a good thing going there for a while, but where are their followers now? And say, where is that fellow that sold all those pet rocks a few years ago? Ahhh yes, he's laying naked on his bed wallowing in all his money. It is true, there's a sucker born every minute--were you one of the millions that participated in the Publisher's Clearing House Sweepstakes? Not I said the little red hen.
-- bardou (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 02, 2000.
Look(ing) is what blind people can't do.... and you are blinded by your own ego AND lack of basic facts/thinking . He who laughs last, laughs BEST ! I pray your not a married man with other to care for , as you are a looser , puffed up with your misguided sense of importance , even using anothers ideas to gratify your ego ! Sad product of the present day school system , where you are not encouraged to think anything but the liberal/government/run with the crowd , view . Those without knowledge, are confident of everything ; and you , Sir , are WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE . Eagle
-- Hal Walker (email@example.com), January 02, 2000.
Um, excuse me but are you saying that there is not Y2K embedded chip problem?
Is that what is now believed? That embedded chips and embedded systems will and have not caused Failures due to Y2K?
Why is seeing that written all over the place now doing nothing more than making me feel empty?
Probably because of all the pain and worry so many people were made to go through for the last few years believing they could fail....
-- Cherri (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 02, 2000.
What a pathetically poor excuse for a Christian commentator the writer of that article is. His church doctrine is, to say the least, a bit OFF! Stoning was for those who proclaimed something in the name of God that did not come to pass (prophets)....I do not EVER recall Michael Hyatt saying that God told him to pass this along as HIS word...nope, not once. He proclaimed himself a concerned christian and his book was distributed free over the internet for those who wished to read it.
This article is slander of the highest order and the writer should be taken to task. Wonder how much money he made on his article? Makes me sick that claiming to be a Christian is so easy that ANYBODY can claim it and make wild accusations such as this. On behalf of Christians everywhere, let me just say that he does not speak for us. He did not stop at attacking Michael's Y2K position (which has yet to be proven), but went on to character assassination and even suggested the death penalty.
This article and its writer should be relegated to the trash heap or lining bird cages.
-- Ynott (Ynott@incorruptible.com), January 02, 2000.
Could someone give me the credentials of this author? I have tried to do several searches but cannot find any reference. I am well aware of the credentials of Michael Hyatt, who I have great respect for but who is this fool? I have no problem with rational criticism but there was nothing rational about the author. The tone of this article seems to be of hatred. Not very Christian if you ask me!
-- Ruth Edwards (REath29646@aol.com), January 02, 2000.
Hal Walker, my primary intent was to comment on the Hyatt article but first allow me to address your post. Are you speaking to the poster named Look who cut and pasted the Hyatt article? If so, why are you so upset with this person? If not, why are you so upset period? You seem to be somewhat disturbed but who can tell these days.
Now to the article itself. Why are we not seeing a general outcry to bring the fear mongers to the forefront to answer for their actions? Can we all be so ignorant and brainwashed to allow these charlatans to continue on as if nothing happened? Are we so embarrassed as to ignore the massive scam that has sucked so many in?
I believe that many of us are in a period of denial but just wait a few weeks and lets see how the Gary Norths, Michael Hyatts, and Ed Yourdon's smell. You will not like the odor.
-- Bill Collector (Due@in.full), January 02, 2000.
Funny, I thought that, with the exception of God, I was the only one responsible for my own destiny. These men made me aware of issues. However, whatever I chose to do with this awareness was totally up to me. I think that we need to accept individual responsibility for our own actions. I think it is called "maturity" or "growing up".
-- Ruth Edwards (REath29646@aol.com), January 02, 2000.
If M. Hyatt is the problem then why did the Social Security start working on the problem 9 years ago before we ever heard of Mr. Hyatt. It is apparent from your article that you are not a Christian but are trying to manipulate Christians for your own fun and entertainment.
-- chuck (email@example.com), January 02, 2000.
Even my *children* are made to take responsibility for their actions. Of course it *does* require strength, character, conviction, honesty, truthfulness and a sense of ethics.
I suppose that's why 'taking responsibility' is a dying trend in this country's pathetic society.
-- Will continue (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 02, 2000.
The 'author' of the article that I posted is profiled below. The URL to the site is shown at the bottom of the original post. I have zero information on the credibility of this individual but he appears to be a Christian writer that is disgusted over the actions of people like Hyatt. There will be many more like him in the upcoming weeks. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!
About The Editors & Publishers D. Marty Lasley
Marty is a 38 year old trial lawyer, a husband of 15 years to his college sweetheart, and the daddy of two boys, 7 and 4. He coaches an under 5 soccer team, teaches a Baptist Sunday School class of young adults, and listens to Van Morrison.
His spiritual mentor is St. Augustine, and he's been influenced primarily by C. S. Lewis, Francis Schaeffer and Carl F.H. Henry from this century.
The middle of December finds him enjoying "the most wonderful time of the year"-- the college football bowl season-- and awaiting the start of baseball's spring training.
-- Look (email@example.com), January 02, 2000.
Shoot, let's drag out the early programers that started this mess, without them Hyatt and the others would have had nothing to write about and how about the Christian Bible, the Jewish folks don't believe Christ has come back yet. Guess that's was a ploy by the publishers to get rich. It is still on the best selling list. What I'm trying to say is everyone is entilted to their own opions, and as Ruth said we are all grow-up and should be responsible for what we decide to do, read, or buy...
-- marli (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 02, 2000.
And while were are at it let's stone all the executives at Prudential, State Farm, Allstate, etc for selling us life, car and health insurance.
I'm not dead yet! What a rip-off!!!!
-- Roadkill (Onthe@info.hwy), January 02, 2000.
There is a lot of talk about "taking resposibility for your own actions".
You can see this on Hyatt's site now, but that is such a cop out...its like saying "Hey, I just bombarded you with all this info about how the world is going to look like Beruit, and here is all this info on what you need to survive...and lets not tolerate anyone on our boards to speak views of Y2K that are in line with TSWHTF...and sure there is a ton of reports about how the utilities are complient BUT YOU CAN'T TRUST THEM" It just goes on....
It is kind of like the store owner telling the cops..."well ya, sure I sold the 10 year old a loaded gun along with a mortal combat game, but I didn't tell him to go kill someone....don't look at me, not my fault"
Hyatt provided a safe harbor for those people who were already predisposed to view the world with a sense of doom, he found a captive audience and feed them what they wanted. The sad part is that his followers are at this moment still praising him for his actions...the blindness is almost mind boggling.
-- RainMan (P38Rain@aol.com), January 02, 2000.
Even sadder is the following message that Hyatt has put up on his forum: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please note: We have temporarily closed our Discussion Group to new members so as to avoid any problems with those seeking to disrupt. We have had a problem with this in the past but have seen a noticeable increase in the last few weeks. Other Y2K discussion groups are reporting similar problems. This policy is effective immediately. If everything goes well, we anticipate allowing new members to register on Monday morning, January 11 at 8:00 CST. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Im confident that these scam artists will be called to order in the coming weeks. For those that refuse to see through the smoke, enjoy your life.
-- Look (email@example.com), January 02, 2000.
Rainman, read Revelations, scary stuff. I suppose being a Christian has made predisposed to be a doomer. And history has proven that anyone bearing a message, that wasn't popular was killed. John the Baptist, Jesus, Martin Luther King need I go on. These folks simply told what they believed to be the truth. You can except it or not, your choice.
-- Marli (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 02, 2000.
Ruth.....thanks for the reminder that we each must take personal responsibility and not look to someone else to be the scapegoat. For the past 18 months, my husband and I have read reports on Y2K readiness from the gov't, media, corporate entities, Michael Hyatt, Ed Yourdon, Yardeni, etc., etc., etc. Neither of us have intimate knowledge of computer systems, banking, stock market, critical systems, or anything else that might have succumbed to Y2K problems, so we have had to depend on others to present information and opinion. After extensive research, we took a position and followed the avenue of sensible preparedness. No one is to blame....it was our personal choice, given the information available. With all of the conversation either for or against a major disruption, everyone in the world actually made a choice......they did something or nothing. We are both thankful for the lack of evidenced disruption so far, but hold to a cautionary view of the next few weeks-months until all of the cards are out on the table. Granted, we spent some money that we wouldn't have chosen to spend otherwise, but nothing is lost.
-- Kenin Marble (email@example.com), January 02, 2000.
Rainman, I suppose the fact that YOU were banned from the Hyatt site for your actions, has nothing to do with how you feel towards him? They must have something good going for them if they kick people like you out.
And to the braindead idiot who wrote this, I know C. S. Lewis and Francis Schaeffer and more than them the Lord, and believe me they don't endorse the kind of crap you wrote.
Get a life both of you!
-- rumdoodles (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 02, 2000.
Stoning the prophets is not new. 'Though I don't think many of the alarmists considered themselves prophets. They saw what they believed was a real problem (and may yet be) and warned the world.
If my car is in an accident and I have no insurance, where am I? If my house burns down and i have no insurance, where am I? Did Yourdon, Hyatt, North, etc. put a gun to anyone's head to make them buy books or anything? I know Ed's book was free on the web for a year before he published it, and the others gave much of their time to warn people? What have you done? People who do nothing will save themselves from criticism, but what good are they? Even though i spent a little money (I buy books anyway) and have items I won't perhaps need right away, it is all stuff I can use. or give to those less fortunate than I am via our local mission.
As a Christian, I don't want to critcize a fellow Christian (you)- - I take it seriously where God said to Miriam and AAron: 'How dare you criticize my servant, Moses?' But you are taking on a burden that is not yours - - judging your fellow Christians. (Unless, of course, they are stealing, murdering, committing adultery, or bearing false witness, etc. - - then you're not even supposed to eat with them. Also, 'Avenge not yourselves, but give way to wrath - - I will repay, saith the Lord.' Now, God will be just in His judgments, and He can read men's hearts, as you cannot. He knows the motivations of these men as you do not; you might be bearing false witness against them without proof. We should be praying for one another, not condemning one another. 'See how they love one another!'
-- Connie Iversen (email@example.com), January 02, 2000.
"Hyatt has fed at the fearmongering tit" -- ya gotta admit, this is catchy. But I think this is an internecine squabble, so I'll stay out of the way.
Here's a Y2k prediction that the doomers did get right: that the moment rollover hit, the fingerpointing would start.
-- Firemouse (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 02, 2000.
Folks, I'm right in there with you, On New years day I marveled at the obivious lack of disaster,My stomach was turning and my first thoughts were how will I face all those who I had harangued with my personal y2k messages for 3 years, First the telephone calls started and suprise, the calls were from those friends I had e-mailed literally thousands of pages of information and other than my brother,NONE were to ridicule. Breathing a great sigh of relief I then went to bed and slept the best dreamless sleep I'd had in over three years. When awakeing I felt like a convict who had just recieved a pardon from death row. So I began a personal inventory of what I'd accomplished with my preps, I have had two successful organic gardens. I have met so many savy people who showed their concern for their neighbors. I have learned animal husbandry, I have recieved at least A PHD in system analysis, I understand the interactions of business,industry,and banking and the strengths and fragility of our IT systems. I have made personal changes in philosophy,realizing that family and neighborhood are the abiding strengths of our society. As a non investor I have studied the market and could now partipicate with out fear. I have refreshed my emergency medical knowledge and emergency medical kit, I installed a solar electric system that has cut my electrial bill by 60%. I have studied Ham radio and will soon take the test. I have renewed my interest in National Sovereignty in the face of assaults of Internationalists (unelected). I have become an information junkie and feel better informed than at anytime in my life.I have read many books on various subjects. I have spent 2,000 dollars on non perishables and have a wonderful emergency store for at least the next 5 years(come war,famine plague,or pestilance)we are prepped. My nightly bible reading has assured me that I will not fall for the Revelationist paranoias---FOR NO MAN KNOWS THE TIME OR PLACE! I have enjoyed the extra time spent with family and friends. And most of all I thank all the participants of this forum for the computer education and enlightening inputs both pro and con!As for the folks who were so sure that all would be OK , at least to Feb. I am sure their lives have changed very little, fear is a Great teacher, and for this wild ride I am most thankful. I can face the new century with optimism and hope and with confidence that I am personally ready for most anything----Can our pollie friends say as much?
-- merek (email@example.com), January 02, 2000.
Did everyone miss the obvious? The writer of that crap is a lawyer. Can you say "oink"?
-- Quiet (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 02, 2000.
"They must have something good going for them if they kick people like you out."
Hmmm....havn't heard a line like that since Jr. High school.
-- RainMan (P38Rain@aol.com), January 02, 2000.
I'm in the IT field and have been involved for a few years working to ensure my company's systems were ready for Y2K. I've been so busy that I hadn't had time, until New Year's Eve, to search out any of these groups on the Net that were helping people prepare for Y2K.
I knew there were people predicting terrible things that would happen as a result of the 'Y2K Bug', but I never paid much attention because, to me, it was just background noise and I had to focus all my attention on work. On New Year's Eve I just had to sit and monitor so I surfed the Net to pass the time.
I was absolutely amazed at how many groups there were focusing on surviving Y2K as if we were going to enter another stone age. I became very sad as I read stories about how much time and money people had invested and wondered how this could have happened.
Reviewing the archived postings I saw how it was possible to take an unknown, like how Y2K ready our world was, and turn it into something that could cause fear and concern. I didn't see any posts by people who, like me, were actively working on the problem and maybe could have given some assurance that the worst fears would not be realised. Probably because everyone was so busy working on the problem there was no time for much else.
The worst discovery for me was to find that there were Christians involved with generating this fear. I am a Christian, and because of that, have confidence that God will see me through anything. (I've been through quite a lot so I don't say this from a 'polly' viewpoint. I've been in the fire a few times.)
It was reasonable for people to prepare, especially if someone was responsible for caring for the less-able. It was very wrong for people who believe themselves to be Christians to encourage the level of fear I have seen in their archived posts. It seems to me as if fear, money, and ego became gods in their lives. What they said is not representative of Christ's teachings.
How will I respond? I'm not sure. I don't think stoning is the answer! Since I have just come upon this information, all is new to me. I do want to make some response, however. I hope that other Christians will consider their responses as well and not just react by their feelings.
(When I refer to archived posts, I do not mean at this site.)
Enjoy the new year!!
-- Chris Josephson (email@example.com), January 02, 2000.
Chris, I hate to say this but the further you look into the role of the Y2K Christian leaders (Hyatt,North,etc.) the more disgusted you will become. The battle cry for all decent Christians should be Never Again.
-- Look (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 02, 2000.
To the top.
-- Look (email@example.com), January 03, 2000.
Michael, why not come on the board and defend your position. You surely spent enough time here last year spreading your BS.
-- We (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 03, 2000.
Con and Scam artists know that for the most part their victims will not come forth, out of embarrassment. This syndrome is much more intense in cases of sexual rape. But here we have a brand new phenomenon:
The scammed and screwed are now attempting to raise the perpetrators to a higher level of respectability. In their minds, this will hopefully diminish their stupidity for being sucked into the Y2K scheme.
It is this quirk of human nature that allows the Norths, Hyatts, and Yourdons of the world to operate their schemes over and over. Very sad.
-- Look (email@example.com), January 04, 2000.
Your hatred, bias, and eny (?) is unbecoming "Look (at the facts) -
As with this lawyer - I've nothing but disgust at a person who repeatedly attacks and tears down legitimate. concerned preparations made by an adult to prevent potential - and very uncertain - severe troubles....or would you have ignored the lessons of Joseph who had the Egyptians gather food in times of good to prevent famine later?
There was no evidence in that case of future famine, but there is clear evidence of twenty years of programming failrues to cause anticipation of very real failure now. Or have you forgotten the riots in LA, Detroit, Washington, Chicago, Newark, Birmingham.....in SOuth AMerican, Africa, and Southeast Asia?
I don't understand your and Lasley's extreme hatred of those who advised caution - but ask you request forgiveness for it - from Someone who needs to forgive.
-- Robert A Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 04, 2000.
I have always respected your intelligent and thoughtful postings but your support for M. Hyatt is sorely lacking in fact. M. Hyatt is one of the most active prep hucksters in the Y2K movement. Im sorry to say that through my company I had many dealings with Hyatt and his business manager, David Dunham. Were a book to be written about this group the Christian community might in fact setout to stone them for their deceptions.
You had to know the personal mind-set of these people to understand the motives for their actions. I have zero respect for the Hyatts and Norths of the world. The fact that they wrapped their scams with a cloak of religious respectability is inexcusable. If you are unable to grasp this concept then you sir, are the real loser. Somehow, I dont think your intellect will allow that to happen.
The Best to You in 2000!
-- Look (email@example.com), January 05, 2000.