Hello all.

Some of you may recall a long post recently reguarding the current state of Telecom in this country. To some up what was said about US Telecom... ITS A FREAKIN MESS! I confirmed this again after seeing first hand some of the "mess" that keeps us on the net and on the phone.

OK, that said...

East Coast exposure to terrorists:

I just spent Dec 19-23 in Manhattan to install some computer telephony equipment for a new customer of ours. The building We installed the equipment in is basically the "hub" for the entire network of East Coast communications, including telephone, internet, satelite, etc. This building known as "60 Hudson" (or 160 W. Broadway depending on which side you enter the bulding)is 24 stories high (we installed in the 24th floor), and is full of nothing but phone and internet companies, and thier "equipment" as well as all types of communications satelite monitoring. Anything that has to do with current communications infrastructure can be found here. (switches, modem banks, backbone, etc). The building is fed by more fiber than you could even imagine.

The building is known (by the people who work in it) as "The #2 Terrorist target in New York." Although I think you can all agree that it is much more important than just that. In a nutshell, if this buulding was *taken out*, "communications" on the entire eastern seaboard (and a lot of UK internet) would be *GONE*. I was thinking about this while I was there. I'm not even sure how we could *EVER* recover from losing something like this.

Now that I have expressed my concerns about how important "60 Hudson" is, let me share my experience, and the COMPLETE lack of security in this building.

We went in and out of this bulding several times durring the 4 days we were working in NYC. IT has two main entrances, one on 60 Hudson and one on 160 W. Broadway. They have a couple security guards that I could see sitting behind a big desk in the middle of the lobby, who didn't appear to be very focused on their jobs. In fact, this building is a "NO SMOKING" building, and both guards as well as anyone esle who wanted to, smoked all day long. Here I am in this buliding that may very well have more "NO SMOKING" signs hanging than I have ever seen in one place, and the SECURITY GUARDS are chain smoking..LOL

Anyway, the only policy they had as far as bring items in/out of the building was basically this simple...

Bring in whatever you want, but to take something out, you have to have a "pass" written from the management of the company you were working for/with that day. This "pass" was a sheet of paper listing the items you were taking out, and a signature from an employee.

The obvious thing that should alarm people right away was that YOU CAN BRING IN ANYTHING YOU DAMN WELL PLEASE...NOBODY EVEN NOTICES, and if you left "something" in the building, nobody would even have a clue. For example, the last day we were in town, we had to check out of our hotel, and make a quick morning run to 60 Hudson to complete our job, before our 3:30pm flight home. We decided to being our suitcases with us, and go straight to the Airport from there. I have one of those big, black, rolling suitcases, and my partner had a similar one only smaller. We strolled right in passed the smoking security gaurds, got in the elevator, and headed to our jobsite. NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

After we were finished, we had to remove some computer cases from the building, so we had to get a "pass". The management of the company we installed in was gone that day, but we were able to get a "pass" from a technician (NOT MANAGEMENT) to take the equipment out without a hassle. Again, carying luggage, we present our pass, and weren't even slowed down. I should also mention, that NOT ONCE did we have to sign in or out of this buliding. We simply walked in off the street, and went right to work.

Does this disturb anyone else as much as it did me?? I mean, the lack of secuirity is like a running joke with the guys we were working with...i couldn't believe it.

24 stories of general East Cost communications...completely INSECURE.

Just as a side note, there is a west coast "hub" like this in LA called "One Wilshire", but they have a quite a bit more security, which is why 60 Hudson in NYC freaked me out.

If anyone has any questions, ILl be happy to answer them as best I can. Even if they beefed up security this week, the building has been at risk *AT LEAST* up- until I left on the 23rd of Dec 1999. I pray the building stays safe.

-- Can't Say (taking_no_chances@right_now.com), December 27, 1999

Answers

Have you notified anyone about this? Besides us? *Might* be a good idea...

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan101st@Aol.com), December 27, 1999.

Can't Say - You say you're concerned about security issues, yet you're providing a terrorist blueprint for what reason?? I'll be really pissed if you're the reason I won't be online this weekend.

SYSOPs - Please Delete!

-- Had it (with@this.troll), December 27, 1999.

Who do you notify? If the freaking police department, FBI and everyone else in NYC hasn't done anything, why would they give a rip if little old ME called?

I told the guys that we worked with (that work in that building every day) that they need to be complainaing about the lack of security, and they laughed. They said getting something done in that building is a lifelong task. For example, this building is THE telecom facility on the east coast, and it takes a month to get a regualar phone line instaled IN THE BUILDING!

I gave you the address, feel free to call the authorities in NYC if you wish.

-- Can't Say (taking_no_chances@right_now.com), December 27, 1999.

Had it??

You are a retard. Do you think I am the only person who knows this building exists? Do you think my posting of this information is HIGHLY SECRET news? Like I said, the people who work in that building JOKE about the lack of security. If something happens to that building, it will be because of INEPT SECURITY not because I, a simple technician, happened to notice the lax nature of it there. You don't need a blue print, all you have to do is walk in the building.

-- Can't Say (taking_no_chances@right_now.com), December 27, 1999.

Never fails, I post some useful information about why things aren't as "secure" as everyone would like us to think they are, and im labled a "troll".

I brought this up, because if enough people give a shit to call and complain about it, then maybe it will change. Maybe you would have liked it if I just kept it to myself, and then you could pretend it doesn't exist. Pathetic.

-- Can't Say (taking_no_chances@right_now.com), December 27, 1999.

Also, I was talking about "VISUAL" security. I have to believe that our government has someone watching this building. If they don't....then maybe it isn't as important as it seems to me.

-- Can't Say (taking_no_chances@right_now.com), December 27, 1999.

Can't Say, it's not that I don't appreciate the personal heads-up, and I do hope your efforts turn out to be constructive, and I hope you haven't jeopardized yourself for whistle-blowing, it's just a whole lot more information than I care to have publicly aired on a potentially serious natural security matter.

-- Had it (With@this.troll), December 27, 1999.

This is actually a private/public security matter. In NYC, these two meet frequently and interesect via fax. The American Society for Industrial Security has a very active NYC chapter. I think you might be talking about the old AT&T building. In this case, it would be a question of who owns the building and who is head of security that you could contact. If you are really concerned, find the ASIS site and inquire as to who is the current chapter president and leave a message for him (usually a him).

-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), December 27, 1999.

My thanks to "Can't Say"

You are damned if you do and damned if you don"t. It is a no win ... but for those who want HARD info and FIRST HAND info your post is what makes this forum important.

It is posts like this that tell me the world is not "on top" of all the potiental problems that are going to start developing this week.

-- tc (trashcan-man@webtv.net), December 27, 1999.

Had it:

Im sorry for flying off the handle. Here's the deal. You can literally walk into this building off the street. I'm not posting any "national security" info. It's a public building. Actually, if you wanted a blueprint of it, you could probably get a copy from city hall!!!! This is my point exactly.

WHERE IS THE SECURITY? We are 4 days from New Years. If someone marked this building, its already been done. Its not even really whistle blowing, because its public information. I know im not the only person to think about this, or talk about it publicly, because like I said, the guys in the building are the ones that pointed out that it is the "#2 target" blah blah...

Our lack of security in this country is not a new concept. It is a part of our "that could never happen here" arrogance. The sooner people start to see that the government warnings of the possible coming terrorist are REAL, and people need to be aware.

Just look at the comments that ex-FBI guy made about Times Square. He warned people to stay away from there this New Years. How many people will heed that?

OUR OWN GOVERMENT IS WARNING US, AND WE STILL PAY NO ATTENTION.

sorry for the rant :)

-- Can't Say (taking_no_chances@right_now.com), December 27, 1999.

There are millions of armed and dangerous terrorists running around, waiting, just @ 100 hours before they strike. TPTB know this. But what can they do? Double-ought won't take them out, but will usher them in. They're in the Code! 00

-- 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 (allaha@earthlink.net), December 27, 1999.

Good grief - I see why you are so crazed about this ! Hoping you are doing all you can do to get powers that be to see the danger here.

-- Sheri (wncy2k@nccn.net), December 27, 1999.

The place is probably loaded with millions of embedded chips that will fry midnight, so it goes out without a shot.

-- Notforlong (Fsur439@aol.com), December 27, 1999.

One of those suitcase nuclear weapons could do a tremendous amount of damage in that area, since it is a financial and communications center. People don't want to think about such a thing, but it is certainly plausable. Bring it in in a car or van, park it and take the subway out.

-- Dave (dannco@hotmail.com), December 27, 1999.

As a former EDP Auditor and Computer Security Consultant, I can vouch for the fact that what you found is not unusual. Unfortunate, but true. So many US companies and government installations are vulnerable.

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), December 27, 1999.

I agree with the comments about not spreading around a "kick me here - it will hurt!" sign around on the internet....but concur with your desire to "show" why security against terrorism cannot be met short of a communistic state.....

Still - forward this to the FBI (if you are legitimately concerned - let them do something legal about it - and if they are as worried about terrorism as they've claimed for the past 3 weeks of non-stop publicity to be.) There are cases (Pearl Harbor, Manila, the Marne, Bastogon, Singapore, Dunkirk, Crete, Poland, Korea, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, etc.) where the "government" didn't see the warnings ahead of time and simply failed to protect what proved to be a real target. They (the government) cannot protect everything - they don't have the manpower and the time.

If, on the other hand, they want nothing more than publicity for the Clinton administration to get attention away from the real threat of actual y2k-induced systemic shutdowns - as the more cynical may decide, it will be their decision to ignore your warning.

In any case, you can then return (Wed or Thurs) and see if the lobby and upper floors remain "open" and unobserved.

-- Robert A Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), December 27, 1999.

I can confirm what Can't Say is claiming. I used visit friends in that building all the time when I worked downtown (this was a couple of years ago). The ONLY time I had a security check was in the 2 weeks following the WTC bombing. After that they went back to 'normal'. Anyone who looked right (ie. not a homeless person looking to use the bathroom) could just walk right in, including most of the local delivery guys.

Now this is in sharp contrast to the checks you get most other buildings in the area. Most of those are brokerages and banks and they take security VERY seriously. Security at the front desk usually requires an ID card (either presented to a guard or swiped). Then on just about every floor you need to use your ID again to gain access to offices beyond the elevator banks. One bank I know had lock-down turnstyles (like a revolving phone booth) that only allowed one person in at a time to prevent someone from hanging out and following behind a real employee when they open the door. Quite a few had push-button combination locks to get into individual offices. A *very* safe place to work.

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), December 27, 1999.

I don't think you should have revealed the exact addresses. As much as I think some of this terrorsit propoganda is "hype", loose lips sink ships. Your post would have been better off NOT giving the EXACT address. To do so here on this VERY internationally PUBLIC forum is WRONG.

sysop, please delete the address

-- INever (inevercheckmy@onebox.com), December 28, 1999.

Hmmm, it's been about 30 years since I've been there (and nearly that long since I lived in NYC), but if I recall correctly, that's the AT&T building. I remember that (presuming I remember correctly[g]) because my father worked there when he was with DCASR.

If that's the case -- then security in *some* parts of the building may be better -- presuming it's still got a bunch of federal offices in it.

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), December 28, 1999.