I am storing regular unleaded in steel 55 gallon drums. They are kept in a 6000 sq. ft. steel barn that's well ventilated and water tight. The drums are sitting on wooden pallets (the floor of the barn is soil).

Questions:

1- What if my 8 ft. copper grounding rod hits bedrock at 18"? Will it still perform adequately?

2- I've clamped bare copper wire to the steel frame of the barn (which is ultimately grounded to the electrical service box about 60 ft away. Then this same wire is clamped to the 5/8" ground rod stuck in the soil about 18" deep. Then the same length of copper wire is clamped to sanded-down areas of the lip of each drum laid out in succession. (8 drums total). The drums are being filled by carrying 10- 5 gallon plastic gas cans to the fuel station, filling them up and delivering them to the barn where the drums now rest. Using a large plastic funnel, the drums are being filled from individual 5 gallon gas containers. As an extra precaution, the end of the same length of bare copper grounding wire is held against the plastic gas containers while tranfering the gasoline.

I would appreciate anyone's opinion on this setup/proceedure with respect to safety during transfer, and long term storage. BTW, after the drums are filled to about the 90% level, the appropriate amount of Pri-G is added to preserve the fuel.

3- The barn doesn't have working lights and we are filling the drums at night. How safe/dangerous is it to have a flashlight turned on nearby to aid in transfering fuel?

4 - The bung caps are threaded metal discs, is it safe to tighten these down without fear of frictional sparks in between the threads?

5 - Is it safe to disconnect the ground to a filled steel drum and transport it elsewhere using a 2-wheeled hand truck?

I know this sounds a bit paranoid, but I feel like one can't be too safe when handling gasoline.

About the genset:

I have a Coleman 5 kw Powermate. I tested the freqency of the 120 VAC outlets with my multimeter and it reads a consistent 18 hz. Using the same multimeter, I tested the outlets in my house and the reading was consistently 60 hz. Now, the genset runs hand drills, lights, grinders just fine. What's going on here? Shouldn't it read 60 hz +/- 3 hz like my grid-powered outlets? However, I've not run any sensitive equipment with the genset such as battery hargers/mig welder/electronics etc. because I wanted to test it first.

Thanks to all who respond!

enormous

-- enormous (gg@ggg.com), December 24, 1999

Answers

enormous,

>BTW, after the drums are filled to about the 90% level, the appropriate amount of Pri-G is added to preserve...<

I think according to directions, you're supposed to ad the Pri-G first, then fill it.

As to your precautions,I think what you're doing is okay. I've had a 300 gal. metal gas tank on a metal stand for years and have no trouble with it. The guy who fills it has never said anything negative. I just built another stand out of railroad ties outside for a steel 300 gal. tank. None are grounded. This is farm country, and I have never seen any farmer's tanks that are grounded. Maybe they all have a death wish. But I've also never heard of a tank going ka-blooey from a static charge. If the stuff was that touchy, the tanks wouldn't be in barnyards, they would be out on the edge of the back 40.

-- (gasona@stand.com), December 24, 1999.

You are so far ahead of the average preparer that it is unlikely you are making any serious mistakes. Great. But a multimeter does NOT read frequency, at least none that I have ever used/owned. However being an old man now, and with technology ever changing, maybe I err. If you are concerned about flashlights/explosions, consider lights approved by Bureau of Mines. I believe halogen and other "non-standard" bulbs present a greater risk. Also believe MagLite issues Krypton bulbs as "standard", and disclaims fire risk.

-- A. Hambley (a.hambley@usa.net), December 24, 1999.

Your drums are fine. The danger point is during filling, when there is a possibility of a spark from the fuel to ground where air and vapors are mixed. You are doing all the right things there.

Re. the generator AC frequency, I'm confused. I've never seen a multimeter with a frequency scale, just volts, ohms and (maybe) current. Frequency counters are different instruments. In any case, you should be able to see an incandescent light flicker at 18 Hz. That is very low.

The generator's frequency output is proportional to the its RPM. If the engine is running at the right speed, 3600 or 1800 (probably 3600) you are guaranteed of getting the right AC frequency. I'd double check the rotational speed of the engine. If it isn't right, the governor needs resetting.

-- Gary S. (garys_2k@yahoo.com), December 24, 1999.

For those wondering how to store fuel, see this page for info about fuel storage: http://www.4unique.com/storage.htm

-- Tim (Timgv@juno.com), December 25, 1999.

Okay, I gather your multimeter is digital and perhaps a Fluke[tm] and you are measuring on the Hz position? I see no way that you could get 18hz out of the Coleman unless:

1. The unit is idling at 1080 RPM and you are measuring that because you didn't manually shift it in to run mode.

2. The unit has an autoidle that will reduce engine speed until it senses a load demand and then will auto-set to run level RPMs (3,600). When you operate the unit and ONLY have the multimeter connected, the 0.001 watt load of the multimeter is too small to kick in the autoidle speed up. Many autoidles require at least 45 to 450W to kick in. Plug in a 200W bulb or two and retest the frequency.

I'll assume that when you say "I tested the outlets in my house and the reading was consistently 60 hz." you are talking about utility company power, right?

It is NOT safe to turn on and off a flashlight near gasoline while pouring. Turn on the unit outside the barn and bring in and leave on while using, and then turn it off while outside the barn. I would suggest one or two of the two tube Ray-o-vac flourescent workhorse, nice dispersed light, useful handle for hanging on a peg.

Since you are operating in the 99.99% safety range and prefer 99.999%(truely a man after my own heart!), if you wish to gild the lily and are worried about lightning strikes, attaching woven lightning rod wire to each corner of the barn and dig an 18" deep trench/slot and have that run about 6 feet straight out from the corner. However, since you have already got that 60' bare buried unit, you don't need this, I mention this only for others that might have a metal barn on top of a hill.

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), December 25, 1999.

A big thanks to all who have responded so far...

About adding Pri-G to the tank before fuel: I wondered if it mattered since to re-treat the fuel after a year, it would be added to to an existing tank full anyway. Advice noted nonetheless.

To A. Hambley: I bought a multimeter from the Shack that tests for frequency as well as volts/ohm/amps. (89 dollars, and even comes with a nifty serial port hookup for your PC for data logging) I didn't realize such a device existed until reading information from forums such as this one.

To Ken:

Yes, my multimeter is in fact a digital. (Radio Shack Cat. No. 22-168A) It test for Frequency (in hz) up to 240 VAC.

I don't know about the RPMs of the generator. It seems to run like a lawnmower would while cutting grass. Certainly not a "low" speed. The only controls I have to govern speed is the choke lever. Normally, the engine is designed to run at 3600 RPMs, not 1800.

The unit has two 120 VAC outlets. In one, I plugged in a hand grinder and tested the frequency of the second outlet while the grinder was running (720 watts). The meter indicated the same 18 hz under this load. Hmmmmm...

Yes, the outlets in my house are grid connected and measured .6 khz according to my multimeter.

Advice noted about turning on flashlight near gasoline -- thanks

The "60' buried unit" is nothing more than the above-ground framework for the barn. Again, the gas drums are grounded to the same above-ground frame member that ultimately connects to the above-ground service box 60 feet away, via steel struts and trusses, which are welded together. The only thing resembling a ground that penetrates soil would be the steel frame uprights clad in cement and a ground rod driven into the ground at unknown depth that is used to ground the service box itself. On top of this, I drove a second 5/8 solid copper ground rod into the soil next to the cluster of steel drums.

I gather that I should pull out the ground rod and dig an 8 foot trench and bury the 8 ft. ground rod horizontally to be on the safe side.

Thanks Ken.

Unanswered questions for gurus:

-is it safe to transport sealed and full gas drums with a two-wheeled hand truck with out ground connections?

-is there a danger of sparks from tightening the bung cap? I understand this needs to be *real* tight.

Merry Christmas!

enormous

-- enormous (gg@ggg.com), December 26, 1999.

Well if you can get that 8' rod to go into the ground 8', great! But if it can only go in 18" before you hit bedrock and that is as far as it will go in, yeah, you might as well get SOME use out of the other 6.5' by buying it sideways. Point is this: 18" in soil and 6.5' in dry rock isn't as good as 8' long buried 18" deep in moist soil. You must live in Connneticut right? ;)

I'm still puzzled by the 18Hz. Do you have a cheap clock or flourescent light or record player you wouldn't mind sacrificing to a good cause? Opps, I gather the wheat grinder performed fine, right? Oh well. P.S. it read 0.06kHz and not 0.6kHz right? This one I can NOT figure out. Possible explanations: there is some little voltage spurt that occurs every 3 cycles or so and triggers the meter into thinking it is 18 Hz. I don't suppose you own or could borrow an oscilloscope??? Two poles times 3,600 RPM = 60 Hz, period. I do NOT get it. There must be something wrong with that meter. Do you have a friend that is a HAM that might have a dedicated frequency meter?

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), December 26, 1999.

Please reference my thread of a few weeks ago....

HOTLINK

A word to the "overcautious" folks:

Gasoline is no more flammable than WATER. Yes, you heard right. Only the VAPOR burns, and THEN only when the proper amount of oxygen is present in the vapor mix.

You can throw a lighted match into a full 55 gallon drum of gasoline, and it WILL GO OUT. No explosion, no nuttin. This was PROVEN to me at a very young age. If you want to be so paranoid about gasoline, I strongly suggest that you DON'T keep any. The fear you harbor will be more of a drain emotionally than will not having the fuel.

Things to remember:

1) Do not store gasoline near an open flame source

2) Do not store gasoline in an area subject to excessive heat

3) Do not SMOKE while filling drums or dispensing gasoline

4) Keep your containers GROUNDED while filling

5) DO NOT USE plastic drums

6) DO NOT USE an electric pump unless it has been SPECIFICALLY RATED for gasoline

7) DO NOT USE a little pump on the end of an electric drill, UNLESS YOU HAVE A DEATH WISH

Ask yourself these questions:

1) If gasoline is so dangerous, WHY are members of the general public (YOU) allowed to dispense it?

2) If gasoline is so dangerous, WHY do you NOT hear news stories each night about fools and idiots blowing themselves up?

Pretty simple guidlines, actually. Just follow them, seek help for your excessive paranoia, and CHILL OUT!

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), December 26, 1999.