From another thread,

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002593

[snip]

Dr. Fox indicated that,

- By this time next year, the panic factor will be in full force and rationing will be in effect.

- Of great concern are DOD, FAA (them pesky guys again) healthcare and state and local governments (especially water systems).

- Within DOD, nuclear weapons management and logistics systems were cited as most critical.

- Three of the five oil refineries in Venezuela (which provides some seventeen percent of the oil supply in the United States) will not be compliant in time and will have to be shut down. These and other problems "will lead to disruptions" in the flow of oil.

- Medicare will "fail massively."

- The State Department is still in the "Quill and Scroll" age

- Unsatisfactory performance in dealing with Y2K is indicative of the poor management systems and practices in use in the federal government.

- A comprehensive national level strategy is still needed.

- Everyone needs to prepare for Y2K and they need to start now." (end quoted material)

Jim Lord is the second source and confirms "the congressional aide's" dire assessment.

Dr. Fox later claimed that he his prediction of rationing had been misrepresented by Jim Lord. To the best of my knowledge he has not commented on the other statements attributed to him.

Note the specificity of Fox's prediction: "three of five refineries will fail". Again, this guy is not guessing. This goes to the root of my own suspisions, namely that TPTB actually do know quite a bit, that no one knows what is going to happen, but 'they' have a really good idea. I don't believe that our intelligence gathering and assessment capabilities are so poor that 'they' cannot come up with some fairly detailed information. Their information makes the Naval War College scenarios look like my 'back of the envelope' scratchings in terms of depth and quality (certainty) of analysis. This is what makes the bunkers, the massive generators, the executive orders, the 'mock' attacks on American cities, etc. so horrifying. People, they are *not* guessing. They are not 'playing the odds', contemplating 'risks vs. stakes', or buying 'insurance policies'. They know. This is what makes the other prognostications by Dr. Fox so horrifying. He is not just guessing! But I digress.

So then, if Dr. Fox Knew that the Venezuelan refineries would fail and 'suspects' "up to a 46% oil shortfall" (plus other disasters) which he seems to ascribe to embedded system failures - did Horn Know as well? Did Bennett know? Did Dr. Fox keep these assessments private, only sharing them at Futurist conferences, until late this year?

Are Dr. Fox's speculations something conjured de novo from his own mind? Is this his private analysis? Of course not.

People, this is Dr. Fox's *job*. His purpose in being an aide to the committee is to gather and analyze information. It is, really, totally inconceivable that the knowledge he obtained through these efforts would not be shared with Horn and Bennett. It seems just as unlikely that this expert's opinion and information would not be highly regarded by the committee co-chairman. They hired him and have retained him based on his credentials and his abilities.

Horn knew.

Bennett knew.

Clinton knew.

And they knew well before December 16, 1998. With all due respect to Paula Gordon, I do not embrace the theory that Clinton and other top level officials have been simply ignorant of the nature, scope and severity of this problem. Whatever else you may think of Clinton, I believe he is a brilliant man. I may be wrong, but I believe we need to look deeper before we begin to understand how we got to this point, at least so far as public policy and public disclosure issues are concerned.

[end snip]

Be sure to read the thread and follow-ups from Dr. Paula Gordon...

One last thing - the timing of the Venezuelan tragedy is just downright... eerie - anyone know anything about HARP???

Or is this "just a coincidence..."

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), December 24, 1999

Answers

no...so what is HARP??

-- Taz (Tassi123@aol.com), December 24, 1999.

I believe it is "HAARP" not HARP. The military has some fancy equipment to pump massive amounts of electromagnetic radiation to some boundary layers of the upper atnosphere. There is speculation that the US is experimenting in manipulating the weather. I have no hard data. I do know that the true tinfoils, the crazies with no scientific understanding have seized on HAARP for much attention.

Perhaps we can ask the c4i folks about HAARP.

Anyone else know about this project?

-- David Holladay (davidh@brailleplanet.org), December 24, 1999.

On HAARP (working solely from memory, and it's been a while since I read this, so take it FWIW), the guy who invented (patented?) it prior to selling it to the Navy listed a medly of potential uses, including over the horizon radar and weather control. One of the main mechanisms of action is creation of a "lens" in the troposphere (or ionosphere?) caused by heating the atmosphere. Whether or not the Navy's implementation (at IIRC a fraction of the power necessary for more than "reasearch" purposes) is capable of any of that remains a topic of heated debate.

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), December 24, 1999.

Here is some information on HAARP. You can find lots more by searching for "HAARP" at Deja.com

*****

High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program, HAARP (1993) The HAARP Program is jointly managed by the US Air Force and the US Navy, and is based in Gakona, Alaska. It is designed to "understand, simulate and control ionospheric processes that might alter the performance of communication and surveillance systems." The HAARP system intends to beam 3.6 Gigawatts of effective radiated power of high frequency radio energy into the ionosphere in order to: Generate extremely low frequency (ELF) waves for communicating with submerged submarines. Conduct geophysical probes to identify and characterize natural ionospheric processes so that techniques can be developed to mitigate or control them. Generate ionospheric lenses to focus large amounts of high frequency energy, thus providing a means of triggering ionospheric processes that potentially could be exploited for Department of Defense purposes, Electron acceleration for infrared (IR) and other optical emissions which could be used to control radio wave propagation properties. Generate geomagnetic field aligned ionization to control the reflection/scattering properties of radio waves, Use oblique heating to produce effects on radio wave propagation, thus broadening the potential military applications of ionospheric enhancement technology. Poker Flat Rocket Launch (1968 to Present) The Poker Flat Research Range is located about 50 km North of Fairbanks, Alaska, and it was established in 1968. It is operated by the Geophysical Institute with the University of Alaska Fairbanks, under NASA contract. About 250 major rocket launches have taken place from this site, and in 1994, a 16 meter long rocket was launched to help NASA "understand chemical reactions in the atmosphere associated with global climate change." Similar experiments, but using Chemical Release Modules (CRM), have been launched from Churchill, Manitoba. In 1980, Brian Whelan's "Project Waterhole" disrupted an aurora borealis, bringing it to a temporary halt. In February 1983, the chemical released into the ionosphere caused an aurora borealis over Churchill. In March 1989, two Black Brant X's and two Nike Orion rockets were launched over Canada, releasing barium at high altitudes and creating artificial clouds. These Churchill artificial clouds were observed from as far away as Los Alamos, New Mexico. The US Navy has also been carrying on High Power Auroral Stimulation (HIPAS) research in Alaska. Through a series of wires and a 15 meter antenna, they have beamed high intensity signals into the upper atmosphere, generating a controlled disturbance in the ionosphere. As early as 1992, the Navy talked of creating 10 kilometer long antennas in the sky to generate extremely low frequency (ELF) waves needed for communicating with submarines. Another purpose of these experiments is to study the Aurora Borealis, called by some an outdoor plasma lab for studying the principles of fusion. Shuttle flights are now able to generate auroras with an electron beam. On November 10, 1991, and aurora borealis appeared in the Texas sky for the first time ever recorded, and it was seen by people as far away as Ohio and Utah, Nebraska and Missouri. The sky contained "Christmas colors" and various scientists were quick to blame it on solar activity. However, when pressed most would admit that the ionosphere must have been weakened at the time, so that the electrically charged particle hitting the earth's atmosphere created the highly visible light called airglow. These charged particles are normally pulled northwards by the earth's magnetic forces, to the magnetic north pole. The Northern Lights, as the aurora borealis is called, normally occurs in the vortex at the pole where the energetic particles, directed by the magnetic force lines

(ens snip)

-- Jon Johnson (narnia4@usa.net), December 24, 1999.

http://server5550.itd.nrl.navy.mil/projects/haarp/index.html

-- Mark Hillyard (foster@inreach.com), December 24, 1999.

See, nothing to worry about.

They're just messing with the entire Earths atmosphere.

-- Jon Johnson (narnia4@usa.net), December 24, 1999.

maybe Haarp, maybe not... but everyone *should* notice the timing on a long list of things happening now, Y2K, Solar flares, etc.etc.
Y2K is Real
Y2K is a sub-set of the Millennium Problem


-- Dan G (thepcguru@hotmail.com), December 24, 1999.

Check also enterprisemission.com for more information regarding electromagnetic frequency testing and the downing of flight 990.

Electromagnetism, ride the wavelength.

-- rw (ridleywalker@aol.com), December 24, 1999.

Andy, 1. HARP is real.

2. We heard the 3 of 5 rumor way back from a trusted source with CIA contacts.

(However having stood next to the PDVSA guy at an API Taskforce 2000 conference as he babbled meaningless platitudes, I might up that assessment to 5 of 5.)

-- Gordon (g_gecko_69@hotmail.com), December 24, 1999.

In reference to what govt spokespersons "know", here's a handy reminder:

UNCLASSIFIED: information disclosed to the public

CONFIDENTIAL: information of a sensitive nature discussed only within govt agencies and affiliates

SECRET: information with potential national security implications discussed only with those who have received background checks

TOP SECRET: information with major national security implications discussed only with those who have received intensive background investigations

TS/codeword: information so sensitive that access to it is "compartmented" making it very difficult for even someone who is cleared to obtain the full scope of the information. The most sensitive documents are labeled EYES ONLY meaning that no reproduction of the document is permitted, in any form.

-- Inspector 12 (nowhere@lalaland.com), December 24, 1999.

"Holy Electromagnetism Batman!!"

"Why don't worry Boy Wonder! I just happen to have my y2k compliant Ionospheric Bat Sheild in my Utility Belt!! To the Batmobile!

.....stay tuned for next week, same Bat Time, same Bat Channel!

-- Gen X (raised@culture.pop), December 24, 1999.

Inspector 12; Thanks for the reminder. I needed that. May I ask you a question? Is that what the 'FORT', you know NSA, told the Senate Committie on Intellignece when they were asked why the put the _NSAKEY in Microsofts operating systems. Just a question.

Here's one for you. "There is a very fine line between knowing when protecting your governments secrets are in the interest of it's people and when that protection is ill advised. It is a problem made even more difficult by the certainty of prosecution which follows a decision in favor of the people."

In other words, keep your bull-s*** intimidation to yourself. I've had enough of it for a lifetime.

-- (...@.......), December 24, 1999.

I think you're on to something there Andy my friend, maybe just another chapter in this whole NWO scheme of things. I think changes in the Iraq situation could also be a factor in the big picture. Saddam has got lots of credits saved up in his oil for food bank account, so he doesn't feel like cooperating with any more weapons inspections, and will probably cut us off from more oil. Perhaps Venezuela is destined to become the next "oil for food" program for the NWO, or oil for something. We'll send about 100,000 "peacekeepers" down there and before you know it we'll control their oil fields. As a sidenote, I can't help but wonder if recent chemtrail activity could also be part of the whole Haarp weather modification system, perhaps as some kind of reflective shield (Skeptics don't waste your flames, I knows what I sees).

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), December 24, 1999.

TS/codeword: information so sensitive that access to it is "compartmented" making it very difficult for even someone who is cleared to obtain the full scope of the information. The most sensitive documents are labeled EYES ONLY meaning that no reproduction of the document is permitted, in any form.

Ah, Inspector 12, whoever you are. Youve ticked off a couple of people on this forum, I see.

"There is a very fine line between knowing when protecting your governments secrets are in the interest of it's people and when that protection is ill advised. It is a problem made even more difficult by the certainty of prosecution which follows a decision in favor of the people."

Indeed. Prosecution? Not just prosecution.

The elite in this country have been juggling so many lies for so many years that they themselves dont know whats true anymore. Now, in their hour of need, in the face of massive failure of their program, they have no one to turn to. To ask for help would entail giving up the secrets. But thats not possible: the secrets are too terrible.

Remember the Apollo program? I watched the first moon landing live on TV. It was the capstone of an incredible American decade of technological advance. When I later heard the rumor that the moon landing was faked, I considered the possibility, as an exercise in epistemology. I reasoned that too many people would have to know about a lie that large; it would be impossible to keep such a secret.

But that was before all the pieces of the puzzle were in place. There were other rumors, too. Gus Grissoms death in a horrible capsule fire -- not an accident? Grissom was the astronaut who complained the loudest about the sorry state of the Apollo program, the shoddy manufacturing, the unreasonable schedules. Perhaps he was made an example of, taught a lesson, a lesson learned very well by all the others who may have been tempted to spill a secret or two.

Fast forward to December 1999. The Mars lander has just been lost. Mr. President gives his last press conference of the year. Its an unfortunate end to our hopes for that exciting mission, yada yada, but remember, he said, that when we lost those Apollo astronauts in that tragic fire we as a nation bucked up and carried forward. How sentimental; how inspiring! Wheres my code book? -- shuffle, shuffle -- ah, here it is. Capricorn One. He means: if you dont like what were doing, remember Gus Grissom and shut the hell up.

And what is it theyre doing? I dont know, but whatever it is, we are sure not to like it.

They are all corrupt, every one, both parties. Since 1963 at least, maybe longer.

-- Alan Rushby (arushby@yahoo.com), December 24, 1999.

Thanks all, and sorry for the misspelling. Actually I do know a fair deal about Haarp and I just wanted to bounce out my feeling that this doesn't quite add up to see what you all thought.

Yes Gordon HAARP is real, as are the Tesla secrets "obtained" after his death. And thanks Mr. Rushby?, the last post, very well said.

I find it very hard to believe that the Venezuelan tragedy is just a coincidence... should Oil go Tango Uniform (as we all believe it will) after rollover I can just see the media spin on Venezuela - "It's not this administrations fault"...

I heard those rumours about the Ven refineries a long while ago - it was out understanding back then that they would be shut down over rollover... now we hear nothing about that.

One more piece in the puzzle I guess - thanks everyone...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), December 24, 1999.