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-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), December 23, 1999



The regular sysops are occupied with other matters at the moment. If c4i has indeed emailed A&L to confirm their credentials once again, I suspect that we'll hear from A&L on this thread when they get back from their duties of defending civilization from trolls.

Meanwhile, it certainly doesn't hurt to keep asking interesting questions to see what kind of answers are forthcoming.

If it is indeed you, c4i, welcome back. We are all living in interesting times, to say the least...


-- Ed Yourdon (ed@yourdon.com), December 23, 1999.


I have no direct contacts, sources, "deep throats", or other information that would allow me to make a credible comment about the possibility of martial law. I have guesses, hunches, and opinions -- like everyone else on this forum -- but I think that it's more appropriate to keep them to myself.


-- Ed Yourdon (ed@yourdon.com), December 23, 1999.


re the idea of bringing civilians into a coordinated effort to fix things after the rollover:

This is an idea that was floated a couple of times roughly one year ago, by John Koskinen. If I remember correctly, he brought it up at the United Nations Y2K Summit conference in NYC last December. The idea was to create "pools" of experts in various industries, on the assumption that companies within a specific industry would be facing similar problems. So, if company A within industry X discovered that their remediation work was successful, and they were having no problems, they might contribute some of their specialists to the pool, so that they could be used to help out company B within industry X, which was facing so many problems that their own people were overwhelmed.

Most of the comments from individual Y2K commentators were pretty negative, but I don't recall if there was any official reaction from the various industry and trade associations (e.g., the American Banking Association, or NERC, etc.). In any case, I don't recall hearing any more of the idea during 1999; that doesn't necessarily mean that it's dead, but I would be surprised to learn if there was any actual coordination, logistics planning, etc.

As you can imagine, something like this could open a number of Pandora's Boxes ... security, hackers, divulging confidential information, questions about the liability associated with bugs created by company-A programmers who were making sincere, but unsuccessful, efforts to fix Y2K bugs in company-B systems, etc, etc, etc.


-- Ed Yourdon (ed@yourdon.com), December 23, 1999.

Man do you know how to make an entrance of what???

Please just share your latest contemplations. Would love to hear thoughts about Richardsons latest Gasoline plans.

-- d----- (dciinc@aol.com), December 23, 1999.

C4I, if you are for real, then unload.

Give us something we can see, that is something that will be obvious soon.


-- hamster (hamster@mycage.com), December 23, 1999.

The fuel situation for next week is a pretty much open and shut case, simple mathematics if you know the base figures on production and multiply that blah blah blah. We believe Uncle Sam just hiccuped -sp? Even the DGI's we work with said a collective WTF why say anything if things are all ok.

-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), December 23, 1999.

Wow, what fascinating timing!

-- Claire (timingiseverything@aol.com), December 23, 1999.


The sysops usually verify the IP you're coming in on. As you can probably see, they have their hands full at the moment. Sigh.

-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), December 23, 1999.

I'm still holding to my prediction of no ml before rollover. Troops in NYC, DC, Seattle, SF and a few other places but no travel restrictions or other obvious restrictions. Agree? Disagree?

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), December 23, 1999.


One our sources says the wayward terrorist/bomber in Seattle was a decoy/ruse/excuse. Think about it, what was the news coverage like after the World Trade Center and OKC bombings -tight lip. Now we have full disclosure, since when was this the SOP for this Gov and this Admin.

-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), December 23, 1999.

What percentage of the power grid is expected to fail during rollover?

-- BiGG (supersite@acronet.net), December 23, 1999.

No ML before or probably after. More like something big happens to rally the populace around Mom, Flag, Apple Pie and Bill. Then a voluntary restriction for the good of the effort. Think bit by bit by bit.

Grid is a complete unknown, too many Big Manufacturers are planning to unplug, if they do not coordinate, (Correct us if we are wrong) but it was explained to us that since energey is neither created nor destroyed and there is a definite drop in demand the power has to go somewhere and we understand it would burn up the transmission lines. Robert Cooke are you out there?

-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), December 23, 1999.

c4i, What is your opinion on the surging stock market? Do you have an opinion on the infamous date of Dec 28th?

-- Familyman (prepare@home.com), December 23, 1999.

C4I: The Seattle info is interesting and I have been concerned that that was exactly the case. So which is going to be the greater problem, broken code at the rollover, or a long, lingering death by embedded chips?

-- claire (curious@aol.com), December 23, 1999.

C4i -- agree 100% about bit by bit. What do you hear about oil?

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), December 23, 1999.

What is your take on Chemtrails?

-- BiGG (supersite@acronet.net), December 23, 1999.

What are the current odds the Russians and Chinese will nuke us before rollover takes out their capability?

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), December 23, 1999.


Sorry, but I don't remember this being your wording style - nor the typos. Sys admin, any confirmation yet? You may be legit but if not I don't want my chain jerked (any more than usual! :)

-- Kristi (securxsys@cs.com), December 23, 1999.


Is "The CINC" really being sincere in what he says to the public right now about Y2k and the need or lack thereof to prep. I dont care what he did in the past, rather just want to know if you know if he is playing with a poker face.

Remember before Bush gave the "OK" to bomb the Iraqis ? His mouthpiece came out and uttered the phrase "The President is at peace with himself". Too few Americans knew what that meant at the time.

-- hamster (hamster@mycage.com), December 23, 1999.

Stockmarket, we do not own any stock and have not for over a year, however we are poised to jump in after the crash. The exuberance, maybe a case of ergot rot in the flour. Or just "Don't Worry, Be Happy" Mass delirium. Frankly it defies all logic if you have been studying this problem, problem is JQP does not think there is a problem.

Chemtrails -Oy vey! Give us a break. Contrails plain and simple.

Oil -Tango Uniform. The days of the road trip are over Ladies and Gentlemen.

-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), December 23, 1999.

What are the current odds the Russians and Chinese will nuke us before rollover takes out their capability? And why are almost all the subs and all the nuke powered carriers in port?

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), December 23, 1999.

Any chances left of an Interstate lockdown or airline restrictions before rollover?

For whatever stated reason, terrorism, Y2K, bio, whatever.

-- mushroom (mushroom_bs_too_long@yahoo.com), December 23, 1999.

Who's slated to win the Super Bowl this year?

-- (which@one.isit), December 23, 1999.

Indianapolis in a stunner over an equally surprising St. Louis Rams

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), December 23, 1999.

It is us, we sent a message to A&L BTW we are typing as fast as are fingers and the Scotch will allow

Hamster, We believe that he is being spoon fed info as he needs it to send him in the "proper" direction and to leave open the realm of plausible deniability.

-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), December 23, 1999.

What you're saying about oil would mean real depression of the old- fashioned sort. How quickly developing? 2Q? 4Q?

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), December 23, 1999.

c4i, what does Decmber 28th mean to you?. What does it mean to us ?

-- questionboy (questionboy@qna.com), December 23, 1999.


Someone posted a link here a while back to the archives of an e-mail group for c4i being run through the Naval War College. In reading the arhives, all the posts I read regarding Y2K seemed to say it was a non-event. The only concern I found was in regards to cyberterrorism. Do your opinions reflect a minority view among your co-workers?

-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), December 23, 1999.

Mushroom, Interstate-It is not a lock-down it is restricted access to maximize the distribution efforts associated with trucking. This one is a fnx of the railroads (which will work, albeit slower, much slower)

Superbowl -Jacksonville beats Dallas 16-10 in overtime, fumbled snap

BD, Oil 2Q after the quick fixes do not work and make the already bad situation worse

-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), December 23, 1999.

What about ten of twelve of our carriers being in port now, some (5?) lined up next to each other in Norfolk?

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@navy.ishome), December 23, 1999.

How is Kentucky gonna play? Ft. Campbell Ft.Knox, Scottsburg Ind. etc. etc. whats up with all thats going on?

-- Johnny (jljtm@bellsouth.com), December 23, 1999.

Hi c4i, Could you please give 4 short pieces of advice as to what we might do to better plan for the next 4 weeks. Thank You.

-- INeed (INeed@toknow.com), December 23, 1999.

c4i - what the New Eng. pool operator explained at a seminar last spring - if the demand goes way down cuz major customers go offline, then some of the non-nuke generators have to go off line too. (so yes, power can be created or not created.) Makes for a very unstable situation if customers come back on line too quickly.

Please clarify what you mean by your post at the top regarding the fuel situation at the beginning of the year. Are you referring to the inability of everyone to top off their tanks?

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), December 23, 1999.

Jacksonville over Dallas!! These guys can't be in intel!!! :-)

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), December 23, 1999.

RUOK, This id from our legal staff :"c4i bears liitle or resemblance with any NWC personnel living or dead" We have zero affiliation with them. They represent of facet we represent another, keep everything compartmented and see what the individual thinking groups come up with.

Ed, Nice to hear from you, and thanks for making it to GWU in March, it was an impressive presentation.

-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), December 23, 1999.

Are you seeing any "quick" showstoppers that will be obvious? Chem plant explosions, aircraft carriers not moving, stuff like that? Will oil supply slow down significantly during the "down and dirty" quick fixes stage?

Would that lead to economic or official rationing of petroleum products?

-- mushroom (mushroom_bs_too_long@yahoo.com), December 23, 1999.


I find myself truly confused as to who(m?) to believe regarding the likelihood of serious problems with embedded chips - like those in our local water agency's pumping/pressure system (Tesco, Cutler Hammer, etc.) and those we have heard exist down "in" the oil wells. Do you have any info. on this issue? Thanks.

-- Kristi (securxsys@cs.com), December 23, 1999.

Who is involved in leading Mr. Bill by the nose? Koskinen? .Mil? Both? Someone else?

Bradley blows Gore out of the water after TSHTF?

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), December 23, 1999.

are you saying that travel will be possible on Dec 30th? say from Indiana to Florida?

-- b (nah@rathernot.com), December 23, 1999.

yes all my .mil friends are getting moved around kinda prepositioned.

WHATS UP??????????????????????????????????????????

-- Johnny (jljtm@bellsouth.com), December 23, 1999.


What is your opinion on use of civilians as resources for post-y2k failure remediation?. Someone close says "CINCs" June 14th amendment to EO 13073 was to use civi's on the fly, that is bring in anyone who can help pick up the pieces.

Close contact says that might have been done because of a posted message in a CNN forum.

I know this is specific or maybe you are not privy, but regardless, do you know if civilians will be "hired" to remediate on the spot for failures as needed.

-- hamster (hamster@mycage.com), December 23, 1999.

Who's in charge of this circus and how can you be sure there won't be ML if power's an unknown? No oil, no power? More Scotch?

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), December 23, 1999.

Carriers in port -No Comment

Kentucky -Third Army HQ, Armoured

Dog and rabbit - Try adding a cat to the mix and see what you get

Advice, 4 pieces, 1. Don't let the bastards get you down 2. Murphy was an optimist 3. Strengthen your bonds with family and friends 4. Maintain your situational awareness at all times

-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), December 23, 1999.

Will Continue

First you need to learn the difference between 10 acres and a farm.

go back to doin hair!!!

leave your computer alone for the next month.

-- you (are @aHypocrite.com), December 23, 1999.

Will we see troops on the street before rollover? Without ML that is...


-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), December 23, 1999.


Your assessment of the oil situation is very specific, for which I thank you. Is there anything else that you're able to tell us with equal specificity?

-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), December 23, 1999.

c4i or Ed

Do you forsee martial law being declared in this country due to either Y2K or terrorism withing the next couple of weeks/days.

-- Familyman (prepare@home.com), December 23, 1999.

Will Continue, Do the math, There is simply not enough manpowerto effectively enforce any national Martial Law.

Hamster Beyond our expertise, but a hell of a question

Bill's Nose - His advisors, typical command structure is you do not bog down man in the details, just the decisions.

Embed - Assume the worst and hope for the best, we are assuming a 5% failure rate for any system.

-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), December 23, 1999.

Thanks for your reply c4i above. I don't mean to ask what some may consider a stupid question, but some have mentioned the military commandeering our preps or forcing us from our homes for various reasons. Do you see either as a possibility? Thanks.

-- INeed (INeed@toknow.com), December 23, 1999.

Why all the Exec Orders? What do you see from overseas and how will it effect US/when?

-- Ruth the Moab (aapm@aapainmanage.org), December 23, 1999.

Thanks c4i understood....

what about cheetah?

-- Johnny (jljtm@bellsouth.com), December 23, 1999.


Whose radio frequencies should we be monitoring? Army, Fema, or NG?

Is the NG's UHF radio system now working as they hoped? How can I get the frequencies??

Enjoy the Scotch.

-- David (dwaldrip@aol.com), December 23, 1999.

To the Polly dumbass(es) We didn't e-mail A&L our creditials, we sent them our verification that it is indeed us that is posting and not some dumb-ass polly with their head stuck up their dumb-ass.

-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), December 23, 1999.


What about the nuclear reactors, are they giving you some worry? I live near 2, should I be concerned? The two are Peachbottom and Three Mile Island in PA. My wife is sincerely worried about this aspect of Y2K failures.

Thanks in advance.

-- Familyman (prepare@home.com), December 23, 1999.

Ed: I understand. Didn't mean to put you on the spot.

-- Familyman (prepare@home.com), December 23, 1999.

c4i's bonafides were checked in the past by a number of people to the extent that was possible given the situation. The Ashton & Leska connection, as I understand it, is that c4i e-mails them with a code word when he/she is going to be posting to the forum. This avoids imposters. You might try asking an intelligent question, or just lurking for the time being and saving your flames for later.

-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), December 23, 1999.

c4i -- lights out?

-- farf (madeupguy@hotmail.com), December 23, 1999.


Glad to see you back. Any info on banks, especially the national mega-banks and the foreign banks? From what I've seen, the small and mid-sized banks are in fair shape software-wise, but interfaces and exchanged data could be the bugaboo. How will the international financial system make it during the first couple of weeks?

-- Nabi (nabi7@yahoo.com), December 23, 1999.

David, HF freq and of course CB 9

Familyman, The current thinking as it was explained to us, was this: something goes wrong at Plant X, Plant X shoves control rods into core to stop the chain reaction and does everything in their power (no pun here) to cool the reactor off as fast as possible.

-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), December 23, 1999.

c4i--Please forgive me for repeating myself, but I'm so afraid you've overlooked my question above about the possibility of the military commandeering our preps or removing us from our homes unwillingly. Are either of these a possibility in your estimation? Again, please forgive the redundancy. If you've answered as I submit this post I thank you.

-- INeed (INeed@toknow.com), December 23, 1999.

I'm going to take your silence on my question as confirmation of what I have believed. I understand you don't want to panic anyone so I'll let it go at that.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), December 23, 1999.

I hate Scotch! There is an unopened 1/5th in the pantry you can be sure to help yourself to if any of you are ever around here.

how about cheetah?

-- Johnny (jljtm@bellsouth.com), December 23, 1999.


Have you heard of any plans for large numbers of preemptive arrests, and if so on what grounds??

-- K. Stevens (kstevens@ It's ALL going away in eight days.com), December 23, 1999.

Attention Dumbass and LL, We are exactly that a we, as in several, more than one individual, a collective etc. And we are sure glad "you bet the farm" that this "guy" doesn't know squat since this guy who is typing tonight is a gal.

-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), December 23, 1999.

No way, IMO, to forcibly enlist programmers en masse. Not practical. The "free market" will have to do its thing. With millions of programmers out of work, won't be hard to get them to "volunteer" for employment in return for some "beans and rice".

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), December 23, 1999.

No preemptive arrests. No confiscation of stored supplies. And thanks for the Star Trek Quote dumbass

-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), December 23, 1999.

Sorry for disrupting once again, but I wanted to interject that I don't have a farm to bet with, so I guess that makes us both wrong.

I do have an old IBM compatible 166 that you're welcome to take off my hands though. You'll need to replace the motherboard though, because much like Ed Yourdon's reputation in the computer field, it's been trashed.

Oh, and that was Star Trek IV, not V.

-- (okay@now. I'll REALLY shut up), December 23, 1999.


Is DC going to be islanded (electrical grid)?

-- snooze button (alarmclock_2000@yahoo.com), December 23, 1999.

International hot spots in priority order? Mideast? If oil tanks, won't the mideast explode? Russia? China-Taiwan? N Korea-S Korea? How can we project power overseas without oil?

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), December 23, 1999.

Lets ignore the noise and delete as required.

-- snooze button (alarmclock_2000@yahoo.com), December 23, 1999.


Thanks. No question. Just, thanks. Enjoy the scotch.

-- I'm Here, I'm There (I'm Everywhere@so.beware), December 23, 1999.

c4i: No offense ma'am but, ignore the polly trolls. There here to waist time since their polly sight is boring.

Another question: Chemical plants going to be a problem?

-- Familyman (prepare@home.com), December 23, 1999.

Will 'they' close the stock market as a way to attempt limiting damage? (And, yes, I know it would not work and would in fact inflict *permanent* damage.)

You mentioned you plan to buy after crash. Be careful. It is a *fact* that much of the 'smart money' was out before the '29 crash, but got back in too soon and lost all.

-- Me (me@me.me), December 23, 1999.

This is fun. I got half a load on, and sort of havin fun! The wife and I broke bread at our fav eatery, and congratulated ourselves that we were out of the market, and holders of tangible wealth.


Semper Fidelis, Richard, USMC 1stBAT, 11th Marines, First MARDIV Task Force Poppa Bear in 91

-- Richard,USMC (Richard,USMC@Leatherneck.mil), December 23, 1999.

1) Do TPTB see any fundamental changes in the way the U.S. Government is structured, say a year from now, due to de-evolutionary forces?

2) What percentages are forseen as being unemployed by 4th Quarter next year?

3) Gruesome, but I believe it should be stated to put things in perspective, How many dead this winter in U.S., World?

-- Rural Roads (RuralRoads@AppalachianSpring.com), December 23, 1999.

BD, the hot spots: Iran, Iraq, Israel, Greece, Former Yugo, Russia, Pakistan, India, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, China, Taiwan, N-S Korea, Mexico, Venezuela, Brazil, Sudan, Egypt, Angola, and finally Liechtenstein.

-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), December 23, 1999.

What's the prognosis for telecoms and banking? Thanks!

-- Rowl (rowl@catcom.com), December 23, 1999.


Now that you've posed the question about Russia/China and the carriers and subs in port, I'm curious as to what you think.

If you'd like, please email me.............the address is real.

My, my, don't the pollies get a little shrill in the noise level when they begin to get nervous?

-- David (dwaldrip@aol.com), December 23, 1999.

Richard USMC, Semper Fi from one of us. Please clarify your question

-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), December 23, 1999.

Liechtenstein 16, Dallas 10 (overtime). (Thx, c4i, trying to keep up with the Scotch).

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), December 23, 1999.


Will I be able to get to my wife's relatives in W.Va. if I stay on the back roads?

-- Forrest Covington (theforrest@mindspring.com), December 23, 1999.

gonna be the longest thread EVER

-- Johnny (jljtm@bellsouth.com), December 23, 1999.

1. What about the latest with Yeltsin and others sabre-rattling. Are TPTB taking this talk of nuclear weapon use very seriously or....

2. World US Nuclear Power Plants - what is the reality of their safety and the maintenance of the grid to keep the core and rods cooled.

3. Why Greece??? People I love there.

-- Sheri (wncy2k@nccn.net), December 23, 1999.

Being a little bit new here, who is c4i and what credentials do "they" sport ? I see everyone puts much trust and confidence in c4i but I am just wondering how c4i has earned this faith, sight unseen. Not intending to offend, but to get a good background of the answering party. Thanks...

-- Rob (maxovrdrv51@hotmail.com), December 23, 1999.

Hello Guys and Gals. Amen on the scotch.

1) Can you give a hint about the nature of Millennium Passage?

2) I here the ICC is having a hell of a tinme getting their bottom up reporting sytem running. True? Is there a plan B?

-- (c4i@groupies.areus), December 23, 1999.


Why is domestic backup comm being conducted by, and coordinated through, NECN rather than under the NCS structure, with RACES and related support activities?

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge. of no-where), December 23, 1999.

boy is this weird... has the feel of calling a 1-900-y2kPSYCHIC

Still.. while you have mentioned a couple times that you don't see martial law.. the numbers aren't there for one.. the last couple of days sure have the feel of prepositioning "assets" to be in place under the guise of anti-terrorism rather than Y2K. Especially with the odd new Gallup poll showing "transference" of people's fears from Y2K to terrorist... as if that was the current plan. Divert attention from Y2K to terrorism... a more acceptable reason for searches of bags at airports and an excuse for authorities to be positioned at ports, power plants, post offices, borders, etc. .. all the places they would need to be before any Y2K distruptions. They may not have the numbers for Martial Law, but you mention "restricted access to [interstate roads to] maximize the distribution efforts associated with trucking".

Could that mean just control the roads and let the "chips fall/fail where they may" in the cities?

And do you have any intel on that odd teaser several days ago from Joe Lockart about Clinton possibly working on an E.O. about guns?

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), December 23, 1999.

Oh, and since we're throwing comments like a kid on Santa's lap,

Whow was Busy@the.top last spring?

-- (c4i@groupies.areus), December 23, 1999.


Thanks for participating in the forum. A couple of questions: The Marine and Nikoli K. have posed a big question related to Russian or Chinese foolishness with nukes. I've always considered those worries overreaction, but I do remember several reports early in the year regarding the Russian Perimeter computer system, which (as I recall) released launch codes upon failure of the phone line to Moscow.

Perimeter was covered in The Nation, and referred to on Jane's website. Since April or so, I've heard nothing about it, with the exception of one oblique reference in recent mainstream press to "Russian early warning system" and "problems."

Also, I think we'd all love to hear your opinions on chemical plant failures.

Thanks again, and Merry Christmas! Or Happy Holidays!

-- William in Dallas (bcheek@onramp.net), December 23, 1999.

Forrest -Yes

Sheri, If you were in charge and someone mentioned nukes would you take it seriously, I thought so. And regarding Greece, Cannot go into specifics, classified, however look at their historical enemies.

-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), December 23, 1999.

To all you Devil Dogs out there--remember the frozen Chosin!

-- Fitbone (happy@home.com), December 23, 1999.


Will the stock market be closed all next week (until the Jan. 3, at least) in order to give the public a chance to prep without worry about panic selling of stocks?

-- GoldReal (GoldReal@aol.com), December 23, 1999.

Semper fi sir? Richard is addressing nickoli kruchev's ?

-- Johnny (jljtm@bellsouth.com), December 23, 1999.

sorry to push this again. interstates from around IN to FL clear for travel 12-30? kids must get here. btw, we appreciate your time.

-- b (nah@rathernot.com), December 23, 1999.

c4i, I didn't see Turkey on your list of countries..error of omission?

-- MoVe Immediate (MVI@yepimhere.com), December 23, 1999.

Does c4i agree with the Infomagic de-evolutionary forces scenario, and if so, to what degree? Thank you.

-- Rural Roads (RuralRoads@AppalachianSpring.com), December 23, 1999.

Express Mail and Priority Mail locked out from Dec 28 'till Jan ??

No aircraft to carry Mail...everything moves by truck at Rollover.

-- ~~~~~ (Losing it @ lost it.com), December 23, 1999.

With above mentioned sabre-rattling by China & Russia, are we going to allow China to take over the Panama Canal?

-- INeed (INeed@toknow.com), December 23, 1999.

With regard to the nukes. This is what we know. The Russians are not compliant, however, the Russians have a rather complicated launch system and personal initiative is not one of their strong suits. We as in the US will have many people over there to ensure something doesn't go wrong. We do not foresee an accidental launch situation. This something that even TPTB do not want to hose up, if they do it is curtains for us all. China won't, simple as that, their midset is regional always has, always will.

-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), December 23, 1999.


What is the likelihood of China moving on Taiwan in the next month?

-- Nabi (nabi7@yahoo.com), December 23, 1999.

Address is real, kill the x.

Nikoli is someone whom I agree with on most issues regarding the likelyhood of Russia shooting their nukes. Sort of a last hurrah for the Strategic Rocket Forces. I am in Richmond. I have Camp Perry, the shipyard in Neport News, Yorktown Naval Wepons Base, Norfolk, Oceana in VA Beach to the east. I have Q-Town, Dahlgren, and the whole glob of snot in DC Metro. Plus, I got a Fed Reserve Bank in town. I have my PK, but I am starting to think that I may be a crispy critter.

Do you believe that we have the potential for a nuclear exchange between the United States of America and the Russian Federation? If you answer yes, at what scale? Further, do you believe that the Chinese will participate or sit tight or possibly move on Taiwan? That is the question.

Semper Fi right back. Really thankful for all the lessons I learned in the Corps. Eight well spent years of my life I was very proud to call myself a United States Marine. The Marine Corps is the finest modern expeditionary fighting force to ever take to the seas. I am so lucky to have served in my Corps in time of war. I saw a Marine Corps that was full of stone cold killing machines. We opened up the whole can of whoop ass on the Iragis, and I wascared/thrilled/horrified/amazed to be caught up in a gun fight with actual "hostile enemy ground forces". Anyway, gotta go read Kitco and see what my feloow goldbugs are up to. Thanks for the time, Semper Fidelis, Richard, USMC

-- Richard,USMC (rkb65x@hotmail.com), December 23, 1999.

Sure, I have a question. Who is c4i and why does he seemingly have the answers to every question in the universe?

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), December 23, 1999.


Are all of the people here brain dead, or are they just liking what they hear from you because it confirms their preconceived ideas?


-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), December 23, 1999.

Interstate travel should be ok through the CDC

OK OK folkes, We are going to break this up on our end and go to our collective spouses. We will be posting again on the 28th.

-- c4i (c4ixxx@hotmail.com), December 23, 1999.

Will the Internet survive long term?

-- Rural Roads (RuralRoads@AppalachianSpring.com), December 23, 1999.

ended 10:18 Central

Thanks. Drink water/acetominophen before sack time.

Tell us if you feel it wise to bug out?

-- (c4igroupies@are.us), December 23, 1999.


Are you releasing information that the administration wants leaked out, but doesn't want to be the messenger of?...or is this all off the record?...I'm wondering why you had no comment about the ships in the ports...perhaps instead of just answering questions, you could open up and just give us the latest information you have that will have a measurable affect on our lives?

-- Texas Terri (DeepintheHeart@Texas.com), December 23, 1999.

"Oil -Tango Uniform. The days of the road trip are over Ladies and Gentlemen."

What does TU mean??? (Tango Uniform...)

Thanks c4i, this confirms what I, Gordon Gecko and R.C. have been saying for some time -

Also thw 2nd quarter makes sense to me, I think it will really hit by March/April...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), December 23, 1999.


"Tango Uniform" = "Tits Up"

Hosed, gone, kaput, nada, fried, FUBAR, etc.

-- Wilferd (WilferdW@aol.com), December 23, 1999.

Something is confusing here.

They refuse to answer questions about several matters on the basis of it being classified information.

Therefore, I infer that the answers that *were* supplied were *not* any breach of confidence.

So, I have to ask: why all the cloak and dagger?

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), December 23, 1999.

How embarrassing, I, of all people, should have known that!!! < big smile >

Looks like my oil options might work but I won't be able to collect - story of my life :o)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), December 23, 1999.

Someone on the other thread implied my question about body counts was out of line, but I remember a thread from several months ago about a Senate hearing where the projections were for millions world wide(?). After that hearing which was completely startling, we never heard that statistic again. If we knew projected dead (which is not the same as dead), it might give us some idea of how much TPTB really know about the situation in it's entirety and also how bad it's actually going to be. So far we have estimates all over the place. I'm not trying to be a horrormeister, just get a grasp on the severity of the consequences.

-- Rural Roads (RuralRoads@AppalachianSpring.com), December 23, 1999.

My intuition tells me they are plants...

-- Texas Terri (DeepintheHeart@Texas.com), December 23, 1999.

The meaning of life:

Complete knowledge, ability and understanding of all universal possibilities.


-- GoldReal (GoldReal@aol.com), December 23, 1999.

The Chinese are regional in political/military interest?

You mean like the Long Beach, CA, naval ship yard?

Like both ends of the late great Panama Canal?

Like regional access to the Oval Office?

Oh regional. Our region, global region?

Deo Vindicie!, BR

-- brother rat (rldabney@usa.net), December 23, 1999.

For more on "Who is c4i?", see this thread:

-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), December 23, 1999.


While pledged to secrecy, jail time and stiff fines, it's hard to distinguish between revealing internal information and externally obtained information. IOW, if first hand information came to you that didn't directly broach secrets or methods, but could be construed as somewhat related, you would think twice about repeating it.

-- snooze button (alarmclock_2000@yahoo.com), December 23, 1999.

Wow! Best thread I have ever seen.

-- But (Whoam@i.toSay), December 24, 1999.

Interesting - it felt like being at a channelling session back in the 80's! They would also sometimes say they were a collective! Fun and sobering at the same time. Who know who knows who knows.

-- Sheri (wncy2k@nccn.net), December 24, 1999.

OFF.... (but will it work?)

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), December 24, 1999.

Once more and then I give up. (I HATE HTML!)

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), December 24, 1999.

Ack! Just went shopping and come home to this! Yes indeed, it is the real c4i. Doubt anybody could imposter the real thing. After a while ya get to know his style.

Haven't even had time to read this thread, but did see c4i said chemtrails are just contrails. WRONG! And we have the pictures and phlegm to prove it. Anyway ... thanks to Ed for holding the fort, and as always thanks to c4i for giving riddled tidbits to chew on.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 24, 1999.

Ask and it shall be fixed.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), December 24, 1999.

This time.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), December 24, 1999.

A & L, sorry you missed it. I was just reading the old c4i threads from the link above, and can say that c4i has moderated their opinion big time. In the original threads, they were predicting martial law, nukes, social unrest and chaos. Interesting.

-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), December 24, 1999.

bold tag off.
Watch those big smiles, Andy.

-- (cle@n.up.crew), December 24, 1999.

Andy me boy, what have you done? Now?

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), December 24, 1999.

Well, Unky D, perhaps we really are brain dead when we can no longer figure out how to turn off the tags. Trying one more time...then we'll have to call a sysop to save us :-)

-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), December 24, 1999.

Good grief.

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), December 24, 1999.

What's the problem, I know I put in two tags by missshtake, but the thread is still readable.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), December 24, 1999.

Darn, a lurker for awhile, even post on occasion, take a little nap and log on to this. Not taking a nap for the rest of the year he, he.

Missed all the action, and inter-action. Darn, Darn, Darn.

-- Michael (michaelteever@buffalo.com), December 24, 1999.

Followed some of the c4i links. I'm not convinced.

-- Forrest Covington (theforrest@mindspring.com), December 24, 1999.

c4i, realize you've gone but if you get back soon....................

*from a previous thread*

5. Governors will institute Martial Law for heavily populated areas. The CINC will usurp the Governors and declare national Martial Law to restrict interstate travel and to mobilize the work force. The CINC's action will be too much for many in both the military and private sector. The "Militia" groups will mobilize.

Soooo I guess this previous statement is obsolete?

bit by bit now huh

-- (karlacalif@aol.com), December 24, 1999.

As time has gone on we have come to respect c4i ... AND we have several other Sources PLUS our own observations and study of history and patterns. Our conclusions in many ways are markedly different than the c4i group's postings. In +9- days the Inconceivable Event shall commence and Time Will Tell the plot twists and turns, failures and fubars, triumphs and tragedies.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 24, 1999.

Sorry folks, but I have to weigh in here.

Some of the forum regs know who I am, and know that I am definately NOT a polly (rate me a 7.5 now). Having said that, I have to state that I have been skeptical of c4i's position of knowledge from the start. There is no doubt that he(?) usually posts from places that would concern some, and I have confirmed that through other means. But I don't think he is in the position to speak on matters he claims to know about. His responses seem more "off the cuff" than from actual first-hand knowledge. Speaking for myself, I think that he is probably a concerned ANG mech.

However, I will NOT give him away, as I believe he/she may be actually just trying to help, in some way. But the "information" doesn't quite ring true. I will not, and cannot, say more on this. I am subject to the UCMJ.

I will say this: Jim Lord is probably closer to target than c4i. And expect lots of disruptions in oil, finance, and terrorist actions. The current fear de jour is y2k viruses.

The best information resource you have is here, TB2000, if you screen out the silly stuff.

-- Spindoc' (spindoc_99_2000@HeadDown.Now), December 24, 1999.


Gads, I agree with you.

In any case, maybe C4I has the answer to the unification of gravity with GUTS. How about it C4I? What's the answer to that one?

-- Darby (DarbyII@AOL.com), December 24, 1999.

c4i FAILED to step forward to be recognized, when properly challenged for AUTHENTICATION in opening thread! Would have been shot attempting to penetrate any perimeter without proper challenge and password!

Been proven to be from a Mil. Domain, but doubt positioned as close to the real info that we would all like to validate and recalibrate our shared beliefs and efforts.

Turn the tables! If each of us had valuable real time knowledge that we thought essential to save lives we would find any means to get any early warning out. No cat and mouse, show and tell type of games spread over several months! Too much TEASE ....here being played by c4i. Let's get back to what we here at time bomb 2000 are so good at - mainly our worldwide neighborhood watch. Leave c4i for Tom Clancy!

"The More Spin, The Greater Danger!"

Danger Close, Over

snowleopard6@webtv.net former Counter-Terrorism Officer, 6th Infantry Division; West Pointer, On the Russian Border

-- (snowleopard6@webtv.net), December 24, 1999.

Pay attention to spindoc and snowleopard6.



-- Pinkrock (aphotonboy@aol.com), December 24, 1999.

Thanks for the input spindoc and snowleopard. I felt my intuition about some of 'this' c4i's comments, was probably correct once I read Linda's post. Maybe Linda will offer her thoughts. Statements by this c4i just aren't adding up. The tone is markedly different without justifiaction for it.

Sorry, intuition is all a hairdresser has to offer about this......at least according to the fat, balding, used car salesman from Shreveport (are @aHypocrite.com).


-- Will continue (farming@home.com), December 24, 1999.

Add my vote to the "pulling your chain" brigade.

Some janitor with an over-active imagination is just stringing you folks along. Is it because you want to believe or need to believe?

Happy Holidays.

-- Johnny Canuck (j_canuck@hotmail.com), December 24, 1999.

Mr. Canuck, you've missed the point entirely. The original c4i is almost certainly not a janitor. It is simply that some of us think he is "going beyond the data". Extropolating beyond certain knowledge. Forgive me if I do not elaborate.

This is not quite the same thing as "stringing" along, unless you suspect malicious intent. Do you?

-- Spindoc' (spindoc_99_2000@HeadDown.Now), December 25, 1999.


I was being slightly tongue in cheek when I used the word "janitor". My hunch is that someone with access to a dot mil ISP is having a bit of fun with this forum. I can't prove it, of course. If Y2K does turn out to be a BITR I don't even know if that proves it either. ["It" being the stringing along of the forum.]

-- Johnny Canuck (j_canuck@hotmail.com), December 25, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

c4i may be knowledgable on some of the things they're talking about but certainly not on all of them. Some here who know more about electricity generation than I do are convinced c4i doesn't have a handle on that. And yet, they're speaking as though they do. From my own reading and personal witnessing of chemtrails, I know they're also wrong on that count. It may be that they just don't know about them, but are willing to speak about it anyway. Even if c4i does have valuable information in other areas, they're nearly useless to us because, at the best, they cannot themselves distinguish what they know from what they don't.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), December 25, 1999.

I agree with Texas Terri and Snowleopard. Why, if someone is surreptitiously posting here from a sensitive, "in-the-know" position, would he/she/they not just state all the information they know and can give in one full-sized post? I find this cat and mouse less than enlightening...looks to be a huge ego trip (or drunken ruse) for a few guys and gals who want to have some fun. The posts are obviously made by different people. The questions were not monitored closely, nor answered with any degree of depth or concern, many questions ignored. I am not a polly. What c4i says will not effect anyone's preparations or perspective. Why waste your time?

-- ECON101 (bpamer51@juno.com), December 25, 1999.

Why do you think that there is not enough man power to enforce martial law? What I see is this.... local law enforcement joining with other agencies such as the forest dept etc. led by a small amount of military so that a little can go far.

-- Joseph McNeil (MORE-BAD-NEWS@WEBTV.NET), December 26, 1999.

Agreed. 38,000 police manage 8 million in NYC.

Most people will simply do what they're told. The few bumps on the log that stand out will be shaved down, should it come to that.

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), December 26, 1999.

Re: DC power...according to one of the sanitation engineers, DC has two Cat back up generators which is enough to run the DC sewer and water for one day if the power goes out. According to my cousin who's boyfriend works on the installation of the generators in DC, they only have 2 (originally planned on 6 at this site), and the cousin is just now getting upset that he has trusted our gov't so far and now realizing cannot.

-- marcie (clark@charm.net), December 26, 1999.

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