When dec 25 rolls around, it will just be another day for me. Not so much as an inkling of x-mas feeling this year. In fact, I get startled when I see trees being set up. Total disconnect. Oh, and Bah Humbug!! :)

-- bb (b@b.b), December 22, 1999

Answers

Hey, bb grinch, turn that frown upside down. What, are you just going to sit and sulk for the next nine days? Enjoy yourself, phone for pizza while you can. ;)

-- Servant (public_service@yahoo.com), December 22, 1999.

I gave up on Christmas years ago. Doesn't matter. It's for kids anyway.

For us Christians, Easter is the really important holiday. Christmas is more pagan than anything else, at least the way it's done in this (protestant) country.

-- perspective (is@good.thing), December 22, 1999.

For us Christians, Easter is the really important holiday.

Yup, nothing says "Christian" better than looking for colored eggs supposedly laid by a bunny rabbit.

-- (ha@ha.ha), December 22, 1999.

perspective,

Despite all the secular traditions that have come to be known as Christmas, as a Christian, I still find it a tremendous time of opportunity to exercise "faith, hope, and love" toward all.

-- TM (mercier7@pdnt.com), December 22, 1999.

TM, I'm with you. I'm looking at my family, parents, coworkers and friends with joy and love. Taking one day at a time, you never no whether this day could be your last...

-- Marsha (MSykes@court.co.macon.il.us), December 22, 1999.

--bb,

Yep, it's hard for me to watch families spending 35 and up on nonedibles. It's always a challenge to keep Christ in Christmas in the US, and this year of course the challenge is at a peak. I had the startle response when the office set up the tree 2 weeks ago, but have since "come around" the best I could. I reframed the starle response as a "call to prayer", and invite others to do the same.

I felt compelled to give a bag of rice to each family member, but didn't have the nerve, so instead focused on warm clothing. Dad loves Hickory Farms stuff, so unbeknownst to him, he will be receiving a y2k 14-day survival pack, yuppie style.

By the way, X representing the name of Christ has been used by clergy and scholars alike for centuries. Are there any reasons why I should discontinue this nomenclature?

Commercialists present X-mas as a pagan desensitization or removal of Christ from Christmas, but the reality is X-mas to me brands Christ as the focus. X historically designates Christ, not Xeros, as some might have you believe.

Don't let commercials rob you of the name of the Son of God. If Toyota's new model is "Jehovah" then do I become considered blasphemous when I speak that word?

-- Hokie (nn@va.com), December 22, 1999.

should read "Xerox" not "xeros".

I meant in last paragraph to ask if Christians then consider the word Jehovah to be in poor taste when spoken, assuming it is now a car verses having Judeo-Christian significance prior. (I am inadequately referring to the process whereby the Bible is being rewritten, and so the original KJV is being lost or abandoned.)

-- Hokie (nn@va.com), December 22, 1999.

>I meant in last paragraph to ask if Christians then consider the >word Jehovah to be in poor taste when spoken

It's OK when referring to Jehovah's Witnesses, because it accurately confirms their obsession with the NAME in whatever language it is translated. When referring to the tetragrammaton YHVH, I prefer a different word altogether like Adonai. There is a theory that the word "Jehovah" (there is no "J" sound in Hebrew) derives from the consonants of YHVH and the vowels of "Adonai"

-- Slobby Don (slobbydon@hotmail.com), December 22, 1999.

Didn't you mean "X-mess"?

-- Penda Zone (PendaZ@excite.com), December 22, 1999.

YHWH

-- Had To... (sorry@correct.com), December 22, 1999.

HaHa,

Just a little info regarding Easter.

On Easter Sunday is when christians believe the Christ was resurrected from the Dead. After Spending 3days in the Grave after being tortured and hammered to a cross. For the sins of Humanity suffered due to Adams disobeying God (old testament). The new covenant between God and man. I believe the first covenant was circumcision (ouch) and sacrifices. Christ was the ultimate sacrifice. Therefore when you make light of Easter, whether you realize it or not, you are really crushing the entire foundation of the Christian belief along with making light of the horrific suffering of a historically proven human being!! FWIW

It is after all the year 2000 a.d the a.d. part is latin for after death which is based on the Death of Christ (easter) which ultimately leads us to the Y2K problem. so blame y2k on Christs Death. Make fun of easter now you idiot!!!!! (a little Christian love for you)

Not a bunny with eggs!!

"For we like sheep have gone astray"

-- d----- (dciinc@aol.com), December 22, 1999.

To "-- d----- (dciinc@aol.com)"

Just wondering. What do you do when you're not insulting people...?

-- what a nasty (person@you.are), December 22, 1999.

I dunno... It seems to me that the only holiday that Jesus observed had nothing to do with his birth but was instead a preemptive remembrance of his death and and the reason for/importance of it. I recall reading in the Bible that Jesus passed a cup of wine around that symbolized his blood, and did the same with unleavened bread that symbolized his body, both of which were symbolic of his giving his perfect life in exchange for the perfect life Adam lost in the beginning of human history. Poof, life for life, perfect life given freely in exchange for perfect life lost by stupidity, balance restored.

What does this have to do with ANYTHING in what is now traditional celebrations of Easter, Christmans, or ANY other pseudo-Christan holiday? Funny, the more one looks into holidays the more reason one finds to skip ALL of them... (Except the one Jesus said to keep doing in his memory - the Last Supper or Lord's Evening Meal or whatever you want to call it. And only if performed in its original manner, not as done im modern times with all the unnecessary crap.) I mean, when you eliminate the stuff that clearly came from pagan or apocryphal origins you kill off practically all of what makes modern religious feasts and observances what they are. That being the case, why bother with them at all?

All I can say is that if there is a God (and yes, I honestly believe there is one, true God) He/She/It (as your own belief structure dictates) is very probably highly pised off at how thoroughly we as a collective species have flubbed EVERYTHING we've ever done, including religion. Hey, perhaps Y2K is a dose of reality-check in some spiritual sense...

O d d O n e, who occasionally heads off in bizarre tangents to reality...

-- OddOne (mocklamer_1999@yahoo.com), December 22, 1999.

What A nasty person I am,

I am not quite sure what you mean. Are you referring to me calling the poster known as "haHa" an idiot for making light of the Easter post?

Or ,have you inadvertantly misunderstood my post regarding Christs Suffering on the Cross? Since it was written with a historical bent along with the addition of the A.D. aspect, which, actually I thought about starting another thread with that one.

Think about it---The whole reason it is the year 2000 is because Of Christs Death (and resurrection). Kind a makes you wonder doesn't it??? hmmmm!!

-- d----- (dciinc@aol.com), December 22, 1999.

OddOne, consider this:

If you dismiss all the mainstream religions as "crap," then you're essentially saying that Jesus abandoned his church to error.

Since He promised not to do that, then that would make Him a liar.

If He's a liar, then all the existing churches are equally irrelevant.

So: Either ONE of the those churches that you dismiss is genuine -- OR -- ALL of them are "crap."

Does that make any sense to you? It does to me.

-- that's why I'm (a@roman.catholic), December 22, 1999.

Well, damn it... I have more Christmas cheer this year than ever. I dropped off a box of candy this moring for the lady who cuts my hair. Never gave her a gift before. Then down to the EMS Fire Dept. ..more candy. never did that before either.

bb, try doing something for someone else. It feels great and so do they. Quit yer whining!!!! Remember, what goes around, comes around. Merry Christmas!!

-- (Here@today.com), December 22, 1999.

d...

.....The word Easter does NOT appear in Scripture... I realize that it does show up in the book of Acts, but properly translated, (as opposed to transliterated), the word is pascha in the Greek, meaning "passover." While it is not my intention to offend, the record is quite clear for those willing to validate that which they read. Jeremiah 44 clearly warns against the modernday practice that is based upon the worship of Ishtar or Eostre. The "queen of heaven" or goddess of fertility rights. (Quick like a bunny... eggs?).

.....Further, the very last portion of Hebrews 5 and beginning of Hebrews 6 warn also against the perpetual practice of bringing up the crucifiction, as an open display of Christ's shame. Another abominable teaching. Christ was not hung on a cross, but a stauros in the Greek, or straight up and down pole, nothing in this word suggests two members held at any angle. The cross was not brought into the "church" until 342 AD by Constantine's mother, Helena, a sun worshipper.

.....Those of you who look toward the KJV as infallible might do well to understand that the entire project was completed in just over nine months by King James' "scribes" of the day and was done for the sole purpose of eliminating the Geneva Bible, which had a bit more truth than 'ol King James could deal with. One must use a Strong's concordance to decipher the terminology back to the original tanscripts if one wishes to truly understand Scripture.

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), December 22, 1999.

Good Friday is Christ's death on the cross. This is commemorated (some say celebrated) for the fact that Christ died to atone for our sins, to save our soul(s).

Easter celebrates Christ's resurrection and the promise of eternal life (for our souls).

-- Deb M. (vmcclell@columbus.rr.com), December 22, 1999.

that's why:

[Start Paste...]

So: Either ONE of the those churches that you dismiss is genuine -- OR -- ALL of them are "crap."

[End Paste...]

Let's play some if/thens. This being an emotional issue, let's drop emotions and look at it logically. Of course, this will be greatly simplified but you'll get the idea.

If Christianity is the correct religion in the sense that it's got the right ideas on deities and beliefs and so on, then since it's a religion class that more often than not has a monotheistic slant, we'll have to assume that there's one God. (Although there certainly could be minor deities, we're concentrating on one almighty being here for the sake of simplicity.)

If there is in fact one almighty God by virtue of Christianity being correct as per the above, then this deity created everything and even went so far as to provide an instruction manual for its creation which again by virtue of the earlier assumption would have to be the Bible.

Okay, working from both points, this one deity has in this Bible exhibited a tendency toward being intolerant of worship being directed anywhere but at it. So, if the above points are right, then this deity doesn't like being treated as anything short of the one God. Also, since this deity apparently makes it clear in this Bible that there are specific standards for worship, we must assume that apocryphal doctrine is not acceptable. Purity of worship being a requirement for the deity's approval is thus a logical assumption.

If there is only one almighty God and He (or She or It depending on how you work the math) does not accept any worship that falls outside a clearly defined standard as the Bible would lead one to believe, there is very likely only one matching religion which keeps itself in this God's favor.

Now, since a lot of religious holidays employ acts and symbols from non-Christian religions, if the above assumptions are right then ANY religion that adulterates its feasts and observances by incorporating (or "christianizing") such rites automatically disqualifies itself as being that one religion. That effectively shoots down all but a scant handful of "Christian" religions. So all of these faith variants that adulterated their belief structure ARE crap, but NOT all of Christian religions have done this.

Taking from the Bible, Jesus mentioned to his followers that they would be able to discern who was a -true- follower of Christ by their "fruits," what they believed and how faith in those beliefs motivated their actions and life course. So, if we were to observe the practicioners of any Christian religion and compare these against the teachings of its holy book, while sidestepping ALL doctrine that is apocryphal as it's also, by the same logic we used so far, a disqualifier, we would be left with only one faith - the one faith that one God approves of.

The trick is finding which faith it is. We all may have our opinions on this, but discussing which faith is the right one would be WAY outside the bounds of this forum's purpose. (Not to mention being a sure way to start heated arguments!) It's really hard to discern which faith is the one God approves of, but it's really easy to figure out which faiths are not. And all this assumes that Christianity is the right path, which it could very well not be the way to go (although my opinion leans in favor of Christianity.)

[Begin Paste...]

Does that make any sense to you? It does to me.

[End Paste...]

Yes, actually, more so than you might have initially thought. :-) Ultimately, no matter what happens, we'll all see sooner or later who or what is in charge. I hope we're all surprised in a positive sense as to what that answer is...

O d d O n e

-- OddOne (mocklamer_1999@yahoo.com), December 22, 1999.

Hey, didn't "You Knowwho (debunk@doomeridiots.com)" get booted off this forum?

Just curious.

-- Ludi (ludii@rolling.com), December 22, 1999.

Patrick,

I thought you could at least also come up with the symbolism of Easter.

The Sun crossing over into the spring solstace bringing new life etc. etc. its all symbolism and allegory for our psychological well being don't you think??

-- d----- (dciinc@aol.com), December 22, 1999.

d...

.....I suppose you'd have five, (illustrating the false in the word, there should be four and twenty), and twenty elders with their backs to the alter... I'm sorry, d; no Ishtar for me... and no, I am not a Jehovah's witness.

.....However I wish you would have answered Gold Real's post on discipline in the Milne pokemon thread, you had him by the short and curlies, then you let him go.

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), December 22, 1999.

Patrick,

My friend,

Surely you agree that:

"A man/woman convinced against their will is of the same opinion still"

I probably would have if there wasn't sooooo many posts today!!

I concluded that the people that mattered would see his response and do a head scratch like I did!!

-- d----- (dciinc@aol.com), December 22, 1999.

d...

.....Well spoken and point taken. I was looking forward to a good one though.

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), December 22, 1999.

As is usual in Hawai'i, the ship load of Christmas trees arrived. However, the worries about Y2K have slowed much activity as far as our family preparations. Many gifts were "more practical" than normal. Much remains to be accomplished. But we will take time out of our schedule to remember the reason for the season...and to worship in our chapel.

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), December 22, 1999.

d

AD does not stand for after death, or anything like it. It stands for Anno Domini, Latin = in the year of the Lord. The year 2000 is not as a result of Christ's death, rather a (mistaken) estimate of the year of His birth. I understand that the best estimate now, and I'm sure some of our serious Biblical scholars could confim, is that He was born around 4 BC.

Regards from RonD, a tolerant agnostic.

-- Ron Davis (rdavis@ozemail.com.au), December 22, 1999.

Good Friday is Christ's death on the cross. This is commemorated (some say celebrated) for the fact that Christ died to atone for our sins, to save our soul(s). Easter celebrates Christ's resurrection and the promise of eternal life (for our souls).

-- Deb M. (vmcclell@columbus.rr.com), December 22, 1999.

Count back from...say Sunday morn...Saturday morn=1 day, saturday morn...friday morn=2 days, friday morn...thursday morn=3 days.

Go figger Good Friday and a rising on Sunday.

Think Holy days as in the Old Testament.

According to my calcs Jesus rose on the Sabbath Seventh dayor Saturday and was noticed to be missing on the 1st day of the week.

No! I don't care what day you choose to worship.

Just the facts Mame!

-- Mark Hillyard (foster@inreach.com), December 22, 1999.

Jesus rose on the third day.

Friday was the first day. Saturday was the second day. Sunday was the third day.

This is difficult..?? And we wonder why the damn computers are buggy.

-- it (aint@rocket.science), December 24, 1999.

Have any of you read "Holy Blood, Holy Grail"

Fascinating read.

-- Just Curious (karlacalif@aol.com), December 24, 1999.