Although I personally believe that y2k will be worse than the general media is leading on, and I know that on this site Koskinen is held in loooow regard, yet, I have to ask why would he lie? Think about this...personally I believe that he's intelligent enough to know that if y2k is really as bad as some on this site claim it will be, and he knows it, he would have to know that he will be burned at the stake when TSHTF. Can you think of ANYBODY who would do what he's doing knowing that? If it really is going to be bad, and he knows it, he would also have to realize that lives will be lost because he proclaimed y2k to only be a 3 day storm and to prepare for such when he should have been yelling for us to do more. I can't think of anybody who would want to feel responsible for the deaths of others. Either Koskinen is stupid, naive, coldblooded, in denial, or maybe y2k really will only be a bump in the road like he says it will.

-- Rich (rubeliever@webtv.net), December 21, 1999

Answers

So why did Goebbels lie for Hitler? Of course, Goebbels just committed suicide and suicided his family, to beat the people to the punch.

-- Schlomo (steverromano@eaton.com), December 21, 1999.

He is a lawyer. No lawyer ever had a client who was guilty.

-- Earl (eshuholm@tstar.net), December 21, 1999.

Embarassement has never stopped anyone from lying. Particularly the government - that's why they have spin control, and that's why TPTB have patsies. You assume everyone is honest like yourself. I wish the world were full of people like you, life would be a lot nice and less complicated.

The issue is why do they not want the public to prepare while TPTB spend billions in preparing for what they call a "non-event". As was said on this forum when TPTB said (Koskinen I believe) all should return their generators: "After you, sir".

-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), December 21, 1999.

Uhhh,,, wonder where Koskinen will be during the roll-over? Seems like most elite will be 40 feet underground with months of water and food,, what about out Y2k National Guru?

-- paul (epaul@aol.com), December 21, 1999.

First real bit of news in our local news media. Front page news, emergency personel on duty over the new years day period in all fifty states. Not a word about ever getting prepared. Just emergency staff on duty to control the dumbed down mobs when they suddenly realize the truth. Not a word has been published about getting prepared so that there would be little or no mobs to control. Just emergency staff to initiate contengency plans. It angers me to know that they lie with the excuse of not causing panic, which by doing so causes not only panic but the posibility of the lose of many lives in the process. I hate this dumbing down process, it has been used very successfully in our educational system, to where it it pure garbage. Now it is used again, successfully to dumb down the nation's citizens concerning the very real dangers pertaining to the Y2K bug.

-- Notforlong (Fsur439@aol.com), December 21, 1999.

M-O-N-E-Y. If the people panic, the banks and financial markets come tumbling down in minutes. That does no one any good. Further, there is a high probability of civil unrest of epic proportion. Y2k is gonna' happen. You do damage control on everybody's software, and you keep everybody cool, because you know that fear of the unknown is far worse that muddling through the known (aft 2000-1-1). I grew up in a house heated by fireplaces, with one bathroom and a woodstove to cook on. They country boy will survive, as will we all. As James Thurber shows, in "The Skin of Our Teeth," mankind gets by even in the worst of times. If you were the leader of this country I suggest that you would, after reflection, make the same decisions for the good of the country. The "three day storm" thing is in keeping with what we know of human nature. Post a 55 mph speed limit and you know that everyone will go 65.

The trouble TPTB will have in the next 10 days is that not enough people will notice enough to get any preps. It will be interesting to see how, if at all they will try to turn up the heat. In the interim, the message I find useful is, "Don't listen to what they say, look at what they are doing. If they were truly confident they wouldn't be doing what they are doing."

-- geezer (geezer@anon.com), December 21, 1999.

Name 4 (four), no, make that 2 (two), democrats currently in office who are willing (and able) to tell the truth.

Sorry, that's just a fact that was painfully lanterned through Clinton's impeachment et al.
LIE at all costs.

Given that, how can you believe a word from the Dems??

-- them's the (facts@world.now), December 21, 1999.

Kosky hasn't lied. He has consistently advised the American people to prepare as they would for any 3 day storm. Now, the question arises, how many Americans have every experienced a 3 day storm? Even a hurricane will only typically last 24 hours in a single location. Most winter storms last 1-2 days (even the 1998 ice storm). The only thing he has done is omitted a few things (such as - prepare for a 3 day storm [that will knock out all services for several weeks or months]). As Clinton has shown, and the Senate (especially the Damnocrats) affirmed, lying by omission is not really lying.

-- Phread (lurking@y2k.com), December 21, 1999.

paul, my understanding is that Kosky will be in the national bunker (which is, I believe, actually on the 10th floor of some building in Washington) stuffing himself with cheese blintzes. Jane Garvey is supposed to be on what seems like the only plane to be flying that night. And if we can arrange it, cpr will be chained to the closest nuclear reactor to Dallas.

-- I'm Here, I'm There (I'm Everywhere@so.beware), December 21, 1999.

I agree with Phread that Koski has not lied. The media has done it's reporting, just take a look at what Homer Beanfang and many other's report here each day. Of course you won't hear any of this on TV, but it is in the newspapers,magazines, and the libraries do have computers. The Red Cross and FEMA have distributed literature, and your neighbors have warned you, so there is no excuse for ignorance. With that being said, every single time there is a hurricane warning, people wait until the very last minute to prepare. They rush to the stores and lumber yards to deplete the stock. We are last minute Americans, always in a hurry to get to somewhere but never in a big hurry to prepare for the future. I don't feel sorry for anyone who has not prepared for a 3-day storm. It's a matter of where one's priorities are at, therefore, piss poor planning on someone's part does not constitute an emergency on my part.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), December 21, 1999.

"It depends on what is is. I never had sex with that women..miss...."

Misery loves company... so do liars

-- Polly-Morphic Doomer (greenem31@aol.com), December 21, 1999.

Mr. Koskinen's pre-y2k career (and his life work prior to OMB) was CRISIS MANAGEMENT. Mr. Clinton selected exactly the best person for the job of Y2k Czar. It is not about remediating or being a computer expert ... it is about crisis management.

Mr. Koskinen's resume, The Council Chair is John Koskinen, Assistant to the President. From 1994 to 1997, Koskinen was Deputy Director for Management at the Office of Management and Budget, where he was responsible for OMB oversight of Federal policies covering information and computers. Prior to joining OMB, Koskinen spent more than 20 years in the private sector as a crisis management specialist.

Sally Katzen' resume Deputy Assistant to the President for Economic Policy and Deputy Director, National Economic Council, serves as Vice Chair. From 1993 to 1998, Katzen was Administrator of the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs at OMB with direct responsibility for Federal Year 2000 activities.

Found at: http://www.y2k.gov/text/abouty2k2.html

-- zeaal (zeaal@mindspring.com), December 21, 1999.

Post World War II children have grown up with television. In thirty minutes or sixty minutes, conflicts are resolved. We see that the hero usually wins and the enemy is vanquished. Happy endings are the norm! Americans have not had a healthy dose of reality in a long time. Therefore, they refuse to accept the possibility that serious damage could take place in the year 2000 and after! We can blame the government or media but perhaps we also need to check the reality expectations of the American people.

-- Ruth Edwards (REath29646@aol.com), December 21, 1999.

There seem to be several main theories:

1) Koskinen has access to more and better information than we do. All accurate information is bad, so he knows things will be awful. So by saying otherwise, he is lying ipso facto.

2) Koskinen wouldn't recognize a computer if he tripped over it. His staff is too small to cover the necessary ground anyway. So he has no real clue about what's coming and is just hoping for the best.

3) Information gets "sanitized" as it passes up the chain of command, so by the time it reaches Koskinen, the "crock of shit" has become "powerful and promotes growth". He really believes nothing much will happen.

4) Koskinen is saying what he is told to say by a President who intends to use the massive disruptions to maintain power (such as it is after the collapse) for life. Koskinen will be rewarded with a cushy position for his efforts.

5) Koskinen actually believes the self-serving and unverified assurances of clueless CEO's, despite all the indications to the contrary. He simply doesn't know how to weigh and validate evidence.

Pick one or more, they're free.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), December 21, 1999.

I don't know, let's ask Johnny Cochran.

-- smfdoc (smfdoc@aol.com), December 21, 1999.

Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.

You should be asking yourself why he would tell the truth?

1. National Security 2. National Security 3. National Security

Guess what dude, we're hosed. Somebody's been telling you jokes and you're the punchline. It's a Greek tragedy and you're the Greek. It's a murder mystery and you're the....well you get the picture.

Sorry, but when I saw a guy from the CIA show up at a freaking oil industry meeting, I GI'd real fast. This thing is FUBAR. Hope you don't still believe all that crap they're feeding you. It's all crap. I'm on the inside right now, and I can tell you that the oil industry is a mixed bag for certain. Some companies will make it and some WONT. And I mean WONT. They will not survive this event transition. They have not done the work they needed to. Oops.

Remember, be the punchline Danny.

The Dalai Lama, (big hitter the lama) turns to me and says "Unga galunga". At least I got that going for me.

-- Gordon (g_gecko_69@hotmail.com), December 21, 1999.

Thanks Gordon. Did you mean punchline, or punching bag?

-- Earl (eshuholm@tstar.net), December 21, 1999.

Three more days...and then we will be told by the Corporate Media to go ahead and have our national Y2K prep party...Go ahead and purchase those Y2K preps until your heart's content...$pend $pend $pend and do NOT feel "ashamed" because EVERYONE will be doing the same...because Corporate Media is NOW telling the herd to BUY!!! BUY!!! BUY!!! ...all the while with Wall Street CLOSED UNTIL JANUARY 3, 2000 due to:

(choose one)

a) some "unexpected Y2K computer glitches."

b) Y2K bomb threats.

c) a biological warefare threat.

d) all of the above.

That's correct. Three more days... Wall Street must survive Wednesday, Thursday and Friday without a crash. IF it can achieve that, then the Corporate/Government mastermind plan to control the herd before, during and after the rollover will be a resounding SUCCESS!!!

You don't REALLY think Corporate owned Government is going to allow all those corporations that stocked massive amounts of Y2K preps (at the request of the Corporate owned Government) to be left "holding all those Y2K preps AFTER the rollover", do you???

The Y2K PREP CLEARANCE SELL BEGINS DECEMBER 27, 1999 AT A SHOPPING CENTER NEAR YOU!!!

Just look for the ads...I mean Y2K NEWS BLITZ...on ANY Corporate Owned News Broadcast, beginning THIS Friday afternoon (after Wall Street closes, of course). You'll know these ads, I mean News Stories, because they will be URGING the HERD to PREPARE!!! PREPARE!!! PREPARE!!! for possibly MORE than a BITR!!! (In other words, go buy up all those Y2K supplies still sitting in CORPORATE warehouses, before January 1, 2000. Afterall, Corporate owned Government wouldn't want their "companion corporations" to get stuck holding useless Y2K supplies on January 1, should Y2K truly turn out to be just a BITR.)

-- GoldReal (GoldReal@aol.com), December 21, 1999.

oops,

make that "...SALE..."

(brain cramp, duh)

-- GoldReal (GoldReal@aol.com), December 21, 1999.

Rich: In the arena of popular culture, in which Koskinen and almost everyone in this country moves, there are no such things as LIES anymore. There is the truth and there is spin. And there are varying degrees of spin. And never the twain shall meet.

And read my lips: HE IS A PUPPET. He is saying what he is TOLD to say. Geez Louise, look who the guy works for: the federal government. You think he is allowed to think for himself and SAY what he thinks to the American people? Think how the gubmint thinks: the American people are STUPID, they CAN'T HANDLE the truth.

And in order to be "burned at the stake" as you say, he has to be found first, doesn't he? And I don't know about you, but I will be busy surviving and helping my family survive if things are really bad. Probably too busy to hunt down some government puppet hiding somewhere. What difference will it make what we do to him at that point, anyway? He is a PUPPET!

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), December 21, 1999.

In August of 1998, John Koskinen told the participants at the National Association of Counties (http://www.naco.org)annual meeting ... "... you must prepare on the local level. If you don't the people with the pitch-forks will come looking for you and not me."

REALLY.

-- zeaal (zeaal@wondering.com), December 22, 1999.

Flint,

Those are all good theories, but I think you missed the most likely one. When you have a problem that has the potential to turn the country upside down, National Security and Defense automatically take priority over any other concerns. When the head honchos in the NSA, DOD, CIA, and FBI (did I miss any?) look at the overall possible implications of this situation, it all comes down to one simple decision... would they prefer to risk anarchy, or possible death of perhaps a significant percentage of the population (from their view, maybe as high as 10%).

If they tell the truth and the situation develops into anarchy, people are going to die, and some of those people are going to be high-ranking government, because they will have an insurrection on their hands. If they tell us everything will be fine, some people may die later, but at least the government will have control over the situation, not allowing a state of anarchy to develop. I think we all know which way they decided to go with that decision.

I really don't think Koskinen or even Clinton was given much choice as to how to handle this matter. They were told that if they didn't handle it this way, they would have an out of control situation, and possibly even a war between the citizens and the government.

They feel that they can't afford trust us on something this big, because it is too potentially explosive to take that risk. As usual, they prefer to keep the sheeple nicely sedated, and following obediently along with the herd. That is the way THEY see it, IMO.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), December 22, 1999.

Hawk:

I think you may be right, though I'd put a different emphasis on it. If you knew bad things were likely and modeled the outcomes as well as you could, perhaps you too would select the approach your models told you would cause the least total grief. Public panic can never make a bad situation better, and is nearly guaranteed to make it worse. Whether or not suppressing panic permits more government control seems relevant only if the government believes that if things become bad, control will enable them to address the worst problems as they happen. I have enough faith in government to believe that they are us, not your enemy. I don't believe that government attracts only those power-crazed citizens with evil intentions.

And then again, maybe the most accurate information isn't as awful as you think. If Koskinen believes this, he has a great deal of company across all industries and demographics. A strong case for minor problems can be made quite honestly, whether you accept it or not.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), December 22, 1999.

Easy Answer:

Koskinen didn't lie, he only told the truth as he knew it. He is an attorney w/o a techie background, has no techies on his staff, and listened to the wrong people.

If he did "GI" it was only in the last month or so, and then it was too late.

-- RJ (LtPita@aol.com), December 22, 1999.

For the money!!

show me the money!!

-- d----- (dciinc@aol.com), December 22, 1999.

Hawk,

You forgot the USSS (US Secret Service, or, for the Squirrel King, the US Secret Squirrels). Remember, they don't just protect the Fornicator in Chief, but they deal w/money issues (i.e., counterfieting). Think about all the extra money being printed ($50 Billion).

-- Phread (lurking@y2k.com), December 22, 1999.