In the game of chicken two young men drive their cars towards each other until one "chickens out" and steers away from a collision.

Many have used the image of the Titanic being steered towards the iceberg. No one wants to admit there is a problem. So no one grabs the wheel to "do anything drastic".

The problem with that image is that there are so many different persons/organizations/power centers who each can make their own decision. All choose to keep steering towards a known collision.

It is hard for me to believe that with all the money/power/presige at stake somebody will not start swerving away. Today Garyn North gave a post that most ships in the navy (10/12 carriers, 89% of subs, 75% of surface ships) are at dock in the US. To me that is a sign that the US Navy has taken most of its assets away from the edge of disaster.

The elements most at risk are stock and bond holders and those holding urban real estate. Who will blink next? Who will take their assets out of the line of fire?

Most of the participants of this forum have seen this all coming for a very long time. We jumped away from this madness months ago. Now we can watch events unfold in total amazement.

Teenages at the wheel of a car (possibly drunk) we can understand. But to have most of society being dragged into the biggest crackup in history just because those who have access to the wheels of power refuse to adjust the steering? Amazing.

-- David Holladay (davidh@brailleplanet.org), December 21, 1999

Answers

Good call David that's how I see it. Stoping a major oil loan to Russia in the middle of winter is a bad markerpost cliff ahead. There is no sanity in this policy decision. Even if that company is not quite being run right, they still provide badly needed commodities to the Russian Society. You mess with freezing them out or denieing them food and we will be toast, No If's ands or but's. This is a serious policy error. Mister congressmen and senator this form of sanctions will cause us problems please protest it now. Their is better ways to deal with them more peace oriented. Give them oil not carte blanch loans same with food. Keep the peace mr. President Love them and help them recover without being mean. Find a way to work out the differences, their is always a way dont get harsch or it will be a no win for all if you do. The whole world is watching this one.

-- y2k aware mike (y2k aware mike @ conservation . com), December 21, 1999.

If that is true, about the Navy having it's fleet in home bases, we are repeating the same niave mistakes of December 7th (Pearl Harbor). Bring home all the carriers and surface vessels so we can line them up and THUMP them with one or two nukes. Sure makes elimination easy for Ivan. Another smart move by the CIC (Slick Willie).

Oh, by the way, did you all see him yesterday reading the Christmas story to the children ? Hillary snuggled so warmly by his side as they settled in for a long...

session of making me sick !

Hehe. Just had to vent.

-- Rob (maxovrdrv51@hotmail.com), December 21, 1999.

YET ANOTHER DOOMER TITANIC ANALOGY THAT FAILS THE SCRUTINTY TEST!!

Actually, David, tests have shown that had the Titanic steered directly towards the iceberg instead of trying to avoid it by turning hard to the port, it would not have sunk. Hmmm, imagine that.

Sometimes the most obvious answer alludes the most intelligent people. Don't feel bad about your analytical thinking Dave, just keep practicing and you'll get better.

You want an good analogy of steering into danger? The Andrea Doria collision (I forget the other ships name...I think it was the Italians) is a case of two very distinct people making obvious mistakes in course corrections, and wound up smashing two large steamers together in the Atlantic. Go research that incident and then re-post a better analogy.

Or maybe you'd be better off not making assumtions about Y2K anymore by using obscure (and inaccurate) analogies altogether. Of course, lots of people could use that advice around here. How about setting a good example for the rest of the class huh?

-- (BZZZZT!@wrong. again), December 21, 1999.

Bzzzzt,

And while you're busy scrutinizing, check out your spelling--the word is "eludes"

-- (psssst@bzzzzt.scrutiny), December 21, 1999.

The possible reason that all of the ships and boats(submarines) are in post is that the Navy 'may' want to use their onboard generators to power up bases just in case the local utility goes tango uniform.

If I am not mistaken, this is one of the measures that the Canadians are looking at in some of their contingency planning.

I remember years ago when in the boats that one of them was dispatched to one of the Hawaiian islands after a typhoon had hit and took out the local power company. The boat's onboard generators were used to power up emergency services until the islands power company came back on line. Just a thought.

-- idunno (idunno@whoknows.com), December 21, 1999.

Dear bzzzzztt-whatever---What a pedant and world class scold you are. I'll talk to David personally and let him know, in no uncertain terms,that his analogies will be, henceforward, appropriately constructed. I too always dread having to deal with David's tortured analogies even if I do get the point he is trying to make.

-- Get Real (gaf@mindspring.com), December 21, 1999.

Y2K Aware Mike......This is for you to consider.

REUTERS in Beijing The China Development Bank is to provide a 5.13 billion yuan (about HK$4.78 billion) loan to help build a Sino-Russian nuclear power station in Jiangsu province. The loan for the Tianwan plant is the latest step in the bank's policy to expand lending to infrastructure projects to support economic growth, Xinhua news agency said. State media reports have said the first phase of the plant will cost US$3.2 billion. Other funding will include $300 million provided by shareholders of the project, $1.3 billion in loans from the Russian Government, and $1 billion in commercial loans. Work began on the plant in October............. http://www.scmp.com/News/Business/Article/FullText_asp_ArticleID- 19991207014847440.asp

And they are going to die without 500 million loan from the U.S.?

-- Tommy Rogers (Been there@Just a Thought.com), December 21, 1999.

Bzzzzzzzzzt

You get the asshole of the day award.

Good post david - my thoughts precisely. Amazing indeed.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), December 21, 1999.

Andrea Doria - Italian

Stockholm - Swedish

Stockholm rams the Doria broadside. Doria capsizes and sinks. Stockholm has bow ripped off, but makes it into port. Most people lived.

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), December 21, 1999.

Yeah my spelling is the issue here, or that fact that one boat was Italian and the other Swedish.

You can give me the asshole of the week award but that only proves that you're all in the business of protecting whatever meme you serve to the death, even if it's proved erroneous and false. Yeah attack me, heaven forbid I point out the obvious flaws in your logic.

-- (bzzzt@bzzzt.bzzzzt.gong!!!!!), December 21, 1999.

The point is, you idiot, either way, it was a disaster.

-- Powder (Powder@keg.com), December 22, 1999.

Mr. Bzzzz,

I think you will find that it has nothing to do with meme. The only thing that is required from any of us in life is to just be a mature decent person.

BZZZZZZZZZ you failed with that one!!!

-- d----- (dciinc@aol.com), December 22, 1999.

Dear Bzzzzt!

If you are assuming the doomers are in the thrall of a meme, then you must accept the fact that you, yourself, are in the thrall of a anti- doomer / polly meme! So, if we are all in the thrall of memes, then your railing about it is actually the polly meme trying to assert dominance over the doomer meme. How does it feel knowing you are not in control?

-- just wondering (what.it.is@about.com), December 22, 1999.