To anyone on SF team with the gift of giving simple explanations: :)

I'm on Team NT and have been perusing your team manual and messages on this board since it was made available to us. The manual is nicely done, even though it does "borrow" (er, uh, steal :) ) heavily from Schlesinger's manual. I'm often fond of quoting T.S. Eliot on the subject: "Mediocrity borrows; genius steals!" It is a sign of intelligence to know which sources are worth stealing from and which are not. :) The team manual and team structure are impressive indeed!

Frog was right when he said that he didn't explain the revolving bank and accounting structure very well. I read it twice and still do not fully understand it. There are many points which are not clear to me.

I'm unclear on where the team and individual expense accounts come from, just how they work, and how they are related to the BJ bankroll. The manual states that, when an account matures, 22.5% of the win will be rolled into a player expense account. But where does the initial expense account come from? If someone joined the team and invested $1000, would 22.5% of that investment go to make up the player expense account with the remainder place in the player account as part of the team BR? Is the player expense account used by the player to help cover travel expenses, for instance?

I understand that an individual's investment is considered an "account" that matures when two conditions are met: 1) 800 hours of team play; 2) the account increases in value by 50%. Are these two conditions to be taken disjunctively? Must both conditions be met in order for an account to mature, or does just one condition have to be met?

If one of you would be so kind as to take me through a hypothetical example of a $1000 investment, hypothetically have it mature with a hypothetical $$ win and a portion of matured account reinvested in a new account, I would appreciate it.

Also, there has been no mention of how successful the team has been over, say, the past year.

What is the team betting unit presently?

Approximately how many hours (on average) per month are played by the team as a whole?

Thanks for any light you can shed on my questions and a big thanks to whoever takes the time to post a response.

Dan (+24)

-- Anonymous, December 21, 1999

Answers

Results for BP w/ Bill and answers to +24 (D-M)

I played with Bill BP/Spotter Sunday 10/19 Mirage 1 Hr. -$90 no tip; He won $675; tip $5; Net win $580; ADJN +$290

Caeser's 35 minutes -$70 no tip; He won $975; tip 0; Net win $905; ADJN +$452.50

When he first arrived I Xfered $1000 to Bill, then I Xfered $1320 more to Bill, then he Xfered $300 to me. Br on hand for DM $2365.

---- answer to +24 -----

Frog will be back from Canada soon, and I am sure he will want to answer this question, but I will do my best to answer it.

I strongly believe that the expense account stuff will not even affect the players from Rick's team that will be playing for us. The expense account money will not be taken out from the original investment, only after an account has matured. Eventually, this money will pay for airfare, Taxi, hotel I suppose unless comped, but the expense account will not be established for a player until that player is paid which will be down the road. Since Rick's team money will mature on May 15, I would not even imagine that expense accounts will be started for Rick's players. Basically, all player expenses will be paid by the individual player out of his/her own money.

The original way the bank was set up was that each account gets put in individually. It was hoped that we would have investments of say $1000 every two weeks, and so after the first account saw 800 hours, accounts would mature apporximately every two weeks so we as players could be paid similar to a regular paycheck. This has not worked out for two reasons. Firstly, we have had larger investments more sparsely invested. We will receive one big investment and then maybe not another investment for a couple months. Secondly, we have not always been in the black at the end of 800 hours. Rob chose the 800 hours because mathematically speaking 95% of the time the accounts should be in the black after 800 hours. This precipitated the new caveat: the account must have increased in value by 50%. This was done to protect the investors, and help "guarantee" a positive return for their money. Therefore, the 800 hours and 50% increase in account size are both prerequisites for breaking the account. Both conditions must be met.

Here is how one individual $1000 account would go through. It gets put in on let's say 12/25. Let's say the bank before the investment is $19,000 (a cumulative value of all the other invested money and earned money). Now the $1000 would put the total bank at $20,000. Some accounts are probably only 50 hours away from maturing, and some others probably have 400 hours of play and are halfway there.

The new bank size may allow us to play at a different unit size. In the above example it would not, but if you read our manual you probably read at what BR sizes the unit changes.

The $1000 account invested in December would then get to see 800 hours of play. All wins and losses during that period are accredited to that account based on the percent size of the total bank that the individual account makes up. Say that after 50 hours (not counting any other investments or pay outs) the total BR grew by $5000 to $25,000. The $1,000 account would increase by 1/20 of 5000 or $250. So the account would be $1,250 out of $25,000. This also works out in the negative direction. In this winning example, the account is somewhat "virtually" positive. Yes, it is definitely worth more than it started, but it must still remain in the BR for 750 more hours before maturing.

Continuing on with the example... now that $100 account has seen 800 hours of play. Depending on the number of players, and frequency of play it should be February or March sometime. If that $1000 is now worth a total (including the original $1000) of $1500 or more (50% increase) then it matures, and investors and players will be compensated. Let's pretend the account ended up at exactly $1500. Rob would get a 10% commission of the win. So he receives $50 for his work with the record keeping, leaving $450 remaining. The investor will receive $1225 (his $1000 plus $225) and Rob will pay out players from the remaining $225 based on number of hours played, by a percent of the 800 hours. For example, if I have 160 of the 800 hours I will receive 160/800 or one fifth of 225 or in other words $45.

The expense account thing is rather new, and I am not even sure we have any expense accounts yet, but from what I understand, 22.5% of my $45 pay out will be reinvested as my personal expense fund, as a new account. This will also have to (I believe) see 800 hours of play and mature on its own before it is even used at all.

Hope that helps explain some BR things...

Our team has been profitable, but successful is a relative term. I would say that we have had growing pains. We have endured difficult losing streaks, by pretty much all veteran players on the team, with both StrayFrog and me taking the cake for big time losing streaks. We have shown a profit, but in my opinion we have not made enough money to support ourselves since both Rob and I play BJ full time. < All other team members have "real" jobs :-) > I believe that we had some learning to do about playing the game (tipping, camaflouge, game selection, mental alertness and attitude... all these things can affect the bottom line) and also have just had plain "bad luck" at times. Rob can give you speicific numbers for how much we have won/lost since the beginning of time.

Our current betting size is a max bet of $250 or two hands of $200. Our BR design should keep our ROR below 3% (or even lower). This spread is for any blackjack game (SD, DD, 6D). The "unit" is $25 so our max bet is based on our max bet always being 10 units or two hands of 8 units. OUr betting unit can quickly change, and if you look at the manual you can see what it can be. With the $10,000 from Rick's team I believe our unit would quickly jump to $40 units (I'm just guessing, Rob knows the exact details) giving a max bet of two hands of $320 or one hand of $400.

Hours per month varies because we played in Washignton State for a long time until unwelcome, so now our 4 Washington players must make pilgrimages to play. Rob can tell you how many hours per month on average we play... or you can go through back posts and get a feel for how often wach player plays and where...

Sincerely,

D-M

-- Anonymous, December 21, 1999

Thanks, D-M, for a very clear response to my questions!

D-M

I appreciate the time you took to explain how the "account" system works. You were very clear.

Congrats on your trip win w/Bill. I hope you and the SF team can get to the point where you make enough so you won't have to "work" for a living! :) Oh well, in the meantime it is nice to know that the casinos are more than willing to help you out on your room and board! :)

Regards,

Dan (+24)

-- Anonymous, December 22, 1999