I just recieved my order from Major's supply. I got 3 , 55 Gal food grade white barrels. I will rinse them out before filling with water and treat the water with bleach as per ratio. Question, is my standard garden hose filled with bacteria? or Will my standard garden hose that has been hooked up all summer and fall, place anything in the barrel that the bleach can't KILL??? Sould i get a "NEW" hose for the filling. 165 gal. is going to take awile to fill. Is it worth it or will the bleach do the trick??? Your imput would be great.

Sincerely,

BLUE

-- BLUE (BLUEFISH@THEPOND.COM), December 21, 1999

Answers

Run water through the hose for a few minutes. If gunk doesn't come out then, it probably won't when you put it in the barrel. In any case, when in doubt filter the water as you take it out, and just do it any way you got to when you put it in.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), December 21, 1999.

Don't do it...on several threads on two forums I have read that there is a dangerous chemical in the usual garden hose, such as there is in the usual trash pails. I bought a l-o-n-g hose at Home Depot that says right on it that it is "safe for drinkable water." The salesmen did not know that they had such a thing, and told me they did not, but I'd read about it here on the prep forum, and I just kept digging until I found it myself. It is light green...lighter than the garden hoses, if that helps you to spot it.

-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), December 21, 1999.

Oh Good Googly-Woogly, how many of you drank water in the summertime out of the water hose? You know, those hot days when mom wouldn't let you in b/c it would let the a/c air out and the water came out burning hot at first? I didn't die and my brother and I drank that stuff a LOT. Didn't even get sick.

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), December 21, 1999.

Not everything makes you sick right away. Could be cancer causing; immune system depressing; etc. that shows effects later. Chemicals do their thing over time.

-- Sheri (wncy2k@nccn.net), December 21, 1999.

I went to a hardware store and purchased 20' of food grade tubing for filling a couple 300gallon water bags. You can purchase any length of various types at a decent hardware store (cut to order.) Purchased brass fittings there, too, to make it essentially into a long garden-type hose (connector-wise.) 150 gallons won't take that long - I was surprised how quickly 600 gallons filled. It's also nice having a transparent tube, especially for draining when you want to save every drop. Since the water was already potable and city water, I only treated it with 3-4 drops 5.25% bleach/gallon (about half the disinfecting ratio. I figure the water was already potable and treating it was almost excessive. And any water from these that we intend to drink we'd filter through the Berkefeld anyway.

-- Ford Prefect (bring@your.towel), December 21, 1999.

Don't get too excessively worried ... yes, we ALL have drunk from the gardfen hose during the summer.....the Cl will kill all zoomies and biologics of concern.

We're using the water as an immediate, quick, emergency source - there is no reasonable amount of "leaching" that could occur from these materials in only the few days (weeks?) of concern.

If problems continue longer than a few weeks, the first few barrels you had originally started with would have been emptied and re-filled routinely - again, no leaching concern of chemicals, though in that case (refilling) you'd want to be sure the refilled water was sterilized (to kill biologics) and filtered (to remove solid contaminates such as dirt, rocks, leaves, worms, etc...)

---...---

Seriously, RV'er's (of whom I am one) DO have to check and keep their hoses clean - usually one for potable water refills and hookup to the camp faucet, and one for rinsing and cleaning things. This is because the "dirty water" or rinse water hose OFTEN is used to flush and spray down the sewage tank under the RV. So, if this "dirty" hose gets inside (in any way) the potable water tank, the potable water tank is very likely to be contaminated with the e.coli and other bugs....nasty stuff.

So, RV stores sell "white" potable water hoses, and recommend they be kept separately in a clean bag away from the "rinse water hose". But both are the same design as the garden hose you have now, just different colors.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), December 21, 1999.

For what it's worth, I'm using my garden hose, after rinsing the mud and dirt off the end.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), December 21, 1999.

Here is what United States Plastic Corporation recommends for storing water in the 55-gallon barrels they sell. This is the same procedure we followed:

http://www.usplastic.com/ y2kwatr1.htm

-- Arnie Rimmer (Arnie_Rimmer@usa.net), December 21, 1999.

Most RV dealers and some hardware stores sell white food grade water hose. If you are filling your drums with "city" water and not well water you do not need to ad clorine.

-- BiGG (supersite@acronet.net), December 21, 1999.

...BUT...we didn't all drink a 55-gal. barrel of water out of the garden hose, not even in the course of an entire childhood, guys!!! And plastics have changed, being made with chemicals. Why not get the right hose in the first place, to avoid health problems later?

-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), December 21, 1999.

Ok Elaine, point taken, but where did you get the idea that plastics once were NOT made out of chemicals? Plastics were ALWAYS made out of chemicals, take it from someone who sold mechanical and engineering plastics to companies for 5 years. Hubby still does. The chemical processes used to make these plastics have always been the same.

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), December 21, 1999.

Plastics come in a rainbow of colors and a plethra of configurations. The main concern is the process used in bonding it together as a functional item at the time of manufacture. There are numerous schedules ie; sch 20, sch 40, sch 80, C900 etc. in pipe. The thicker the wall thickness, the higher the schedule. Pliable plastic items have a higher degree of leaching potential. Hard plastics, that are "not exposed to heat", are certified to be free from hazardous leaching by everyone from the AWWA, to the EPA, to Underwriter Labs.

There are, of course, numerous types/grades of plastics that are minimally affected by heat. The most common of these is CPVC, used in new home construction, remodeling, and some commercial applications. (At least as of earlier this afternoon, it still was.)

I won't go into the HDPE pipe debate again right now. Suffice to say that it "is" safe, it "is" hard to work with, and it "is" expensive.

Also, most of the piping bringing water to your faucet, has *some* exposure to copper pipe and fittings and the "LEAD" solder that is used to bond the pieces together. (got copper water lines? The city does.) Why not worry more about this than the bit-o-taste thingy? The last thing a really thirsty person is going to worry about is a garden hose taste. (no, i would not store drinking water in a water bed, ok Jerry?)

If you are not planning on refilling your supply, on a regular basis, then I guess it's not Y2K after all.

I spoke to a water works employee recently, and a big concern is called "water hammer". This is the sudden, exponential, hydraulic force, that is created by surging of pressures (think dirty power). If voids are created in the water lines from unusual metering or drainage, the attempt to fill the void by a surge, can, and often does break the line. If for some reason the pumps shut of and on and off etc. these water lines become at risk. Another excellent reason for reliable, safe, water storage and acquisition.

Be safe, God bless.

Michael

-- Michael (mikeymac@uswest.net), December 21, 1999.

Folk,

I hesitate to jump in here with a shot of realism, but ........

Leaching ANYTHING out of plastic is NOT an instantaneous, upon contact thing. Leaching, by it's very nature is a time intensive process, meaning it takes a fair amount of time for ANYTHING to LEACH out of ANYTHING. It is also a surface area limited item. The water in the hose is going to be in contact for about 30 seconds if you run your water too slowly to be comfortable doing the task.

You MIGHT have a concern if you were using that hose as a solar collector/heater and decided to use the water that had stood in the hose for a few days to drink.

SHEESH

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), December 22, 1999.

Thanks sooo Much for the insite. You will all make it in the New World if it comes to that. I went to Home Depot and bought a "safe for drinking" 100 foot lite green hose. It has a material inside that prevents bacteria and stuff from growing. I will rinse the barrels and treat with a little bleach. Not much needed because of the system it comes from. Thanks for the links and the advise. I noticed in another question yesterday regarding storage of the barrels that we should keep them out of sunlite.. The barrels i have are "White Food grade " Is it the heat factor or the sunlite itself that begins the alge process?? Can i cover the barrels for protection, say with a blue tarp. I needed them next to the doorway in my basemant for accesss and that also has a window which helped me fill them . The hose bib is just outside the window. I was going to cover them anyway to keep them out of prying eyes...

Again thanks for all the help... Best wishes and God Bless

BLUE.. Not So BLUE TODAY....

-- BLUE (Bluefish@thepond.com), December 22, 1999.