SO how do we explain to a future boss and new job that you don't want that employer to take out taxes for you...? How is that accomplished ? I have read the posting concerning the two former IRS agents describing their former employer and how screwed up the IRS is... So ,please explain to me how I would tell my new boss ,Don't take taxes out on me. Because Mr.Employer, I don't pay income taxes ! I's really like an explaination of this side of the coin ( silver currency ) of course...

-- Furie (furieart@dnet.net), December 19, 1999

Answers

Very simple..... It is offcourse very simple to stop filing when you are self employed. But if you work for an employer, simply ajust your dependants to 9 dependants. Then stop filing a 1040, which will render you immune from the IRS.

Once you stop filing, the IRS has no jurisdiction (authority) over you. First buy all the books the IRS Agents recommend. Then place your assets in a Trust, so the IRS cannot get funny with you. Then set aside all your tax payments and invest and retire as a millionaire. I'm well on my way to doing that!

I stopped filing 13 years ago. The IRS tried to bluff me with threatening letters, but I threatened right back by telling the IRS Agent that I would file a criminal extortion charge against him, if he did take any of my property. It has been 9 years since I heard from the IRS.....and it feels real good!

-- snodgrass (snodgrass@aol.com), December 19, 1999.

snodgrass,

but even if you claim 9 dependents they still take out some tax don't they?

and how do you stop state tax?

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), December 19, 1999.

State tax piggybacks the federal tax. I would pay the state if they did not do that. Since they piggyback, I cannot pay state tax. Idiots! If you declare 9 dependents, not much state tax will be taken out, if any. I'm self employed, so I don't have that problem.

-- snodgrass (snodgrass@aol.com), December 20, 1999.

Thanks, my co-worker is going to do what you say.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), December 20, 1999.

You guys are playing with fire. I have been with the U.S. Government for over forty years, and I know how they play. They play dirty and mean. They will have you by the 'you know what' if you start acting funny with your taxes. From my experience, they have many fail safe ways of grabbing you and your assets. Regardless of Y2K, don't believe all that you hear about not paying taxes, just try acting funny on your 1040, many thousands may squeeze by, but you would be one of the unlucky few who wouldn't. Go ahead and try, I am going to play by their rules regardless of Y2k, I have too much to loose, and nothing to gain.

-- Notforlong (Fsur439@aol.com), December 20, 1999.

Even when you claim 9 dependents they still take about 10% or so for social security. If you're not self-employed they will garnish any balance due right out of your paycheck, and most employers are so afraid of them that they just go along with it.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), December 20, 1999.

I'm *not* with the USG (recent accusations to the contrary notwithstanding), but I *will* concur with the last poster.

I had a friend who got in on one of those "detaxing" deals. Another friend -- who he was trying to talk into going with it -- showed me the materials and asked me to evaluate them. He said he asked me to look at it because I "was the most cynical person [he] knew".

One of the claims made by the outfit was that the IRS was really a Delaware corporation (!), and not part of the gov't. To "substantiate" that claim, they had included a rough photocopy of the incorporation papers of a Delaware corporation.

They were crafty enough to 1) reduce the size of the copy, and 2) apparently run it through enough copying genererations as to make it *nearly* legible. You could pick out a word or phrase here and there, and sure enough, it did contain things like "internal revenue service" and "tax". But, it was impossible to *read* the thing.

At least, it was *supposed* to be impossible. (Bwahahahahahahah!)

I spent a couple of hours with a loupe and a text editor. I was able to ID *every* character in the photocopy by finding it *first* in a word where there was no ambiguity, and then, by *carefully* matching up the smudged letters with their *other* instances, I was able to eventually type out a *complete* and *accurate* copy of the document.

When I read what I'd deciphered, I realized that had was the incorporation filing of a company that went into the business of printing up tax FORMS! The FORMS were for people to file with the IRS.

In other words, an ancient precurser to having TurboTax print up forms for you!

I gave my friend my deciphered copy, along with my analysis of the *rest* of the package. To sum up what I told him, contemplate the word "scam".

I also suggested he pass along my comments to the other friend.

To make a long story short, Friend Number Two disregarded my opinion, but it was moot, because he didn't have the several thousand dollar fee the outfit required for "detaxing" him. He said if he had the money, he would have done it. (In the process, he provided living proof that "poverty sucks" is not an absolute truth. [g])

Back to Friend Number One. He stayed with the program. Worked great.

Until, that is, the IRS put two and two together, and got around to him.

That happened several years ago, and last I heard, he was *still* paying thousands of dollars in back taxes and penalties.

So much for the convoluted "detaxing" schemes.

The "cure" for the IRS is contained in one word: "LEGISLATION".

And *apart* from that, if you play with any of those harebrained tax protest/"detaxing"/"it's not really money"/etc. schemes, you ARE playing with fire, and if you *do* get caught, you'll regret ever having fooled with it in the first place.

Of course, I'm just a cynical old bastard and a spoil-sport, so hey, forget I said anything, and go piss your life away.

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), December 20, 1999.

I read some stats. a while back Ron about how many people in the USA actually file every year - I forget the figure but it struck me as very low seeing as we have 260m in the country - can anyone help out here? - a poster said it was one of the great secrets here in the USA, how many people were in the black economy and just didn't file - and they all get away with it. I know a whole bunch of cab drivers for example doing just that. Plus me ex the stripper :o)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), December 20, 1999.

http://www.edrivera.com
http://www.ottoskinner.com

-- A (A@AisA.com), December 20, 1999.

Lots of people shoplift, commit white-collar theft, rape, murder, and drive without insurance too.

But when they're caught, claiming that there are statistically significant numbers of people *getting away with it* will probably not succeed as a viable defense.

I supplied one example -- of someone I *personally* know -- who "got away with it" for some time before he was caught. By the way, *his* response to my concerns at the time was along the lines of "the other guys who got prosecuted all did it wrong, this outfit is doing it *right*, blah blah blah."

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), December 20, 1999.

Delete delete delete delete delete! This IS an interesting issue, but PLEASE take it to another forum or to email.

-- Servant (public_service@yahoo.com), December 20, 1999.

Uh-oh, here comes the anal retentives.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), December 20, 1999.

Either anal retentives, or -- more likely, IMO -- those who don't want to risk having others read the truth about that tax protester poppycock.

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), December 20, 1999.

Here is a somewhat old thread wherin I point out what the LAW says about stopping witholding. That is the first step. Remember that this is what the LAW ie. Title 26 U.S.C. and Title 26 C.F.R. states about the matter, NOT what some goofy organization wants you to pay them for.

The second step is to just not file a 1040. Why do you file one if you have not payed federal income tax? Not pay any tax = no need to file. Lets not make it more difficult than it has to be.

Of course the Fed's will come after some of us...that's what tyranny does. If you can't handle the fire get out of the kitchen.

-- Brent James Bushardt (brentj@webt.com), December 20, 1999.

James,

Did you ever accept a job from another employer, and then tell them that you don't want to turn in a 1040? In case you haven't, I tell you what will happen. They will tell you to quit wasting their time and they will give the job to the next eligible candidate.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), December 20, 1999.

A couple notes on taxes:

Claiming 9 withholding _allowances_ is NOT the same as claiming 9 _dependents_. There are other features of the calculation (as shown on the W-4 form) including itemized deductions, tax credits, investment income or losses, etc., that could bring 3 kids and spouse up to the 9 level.

The reason not to claim 10 is that employers are supposed to (rarely do) send in W-4 forms that claim OVER 10. Probably safe to stay at 9. W-4 is not sent in to IRS normally, so it's a calculation that's just between you, yourself, and thee.

Also, look up Offer In Compromise. If you are shy of collectible assets, and owe IRS a bunch, you can settle with them for as little as 10%. It's a rigorous process to go through, but I know someone who paid off $25,000 with a $3000 gift from his mother.

Good luck, all. Don't aggravate 'em, and don't grovel to 'em. I've known some real nice IRS folks, and some that got them the bad reputation. It's a tough job, and I'm glad I don't have to do it.

-- jor-el (jor-el@krypton.uni), December 20, 1999.

Uhhh Hawk, what does your employer have to do with your turning in or not turning in a 1040?? A 1040 is filed with the IRS. Your employer could care less if you file one or not.

-- Brent James Bushardt (brentj@webt.com), December 21, 1999.