This post is far OT and not backed up with source information.

I quote, "This is NOT a forum for continued religious rantings...."

Since this rule is quoted to Christians here, I would hope it would apply to non-Christians as well.

-- Scarlett (ohara@tara.net), December 19, 1999

Answers

I detect the christian urge to destroy anything non-christian.

-- Mike (Mike@wal-mart.com), December 19, 1999.

Mike, this so common among christians that it should almost be a part of the definition...

ALK

-- Al K. Lloyd (all@ready.now), December 19, 1999.

Jesus was an extraterrestrial.

-- ET (is@nice.guy), December 19, 1999.

The Bible isn't backed up by source information either. The "prophets" that wrote that propaganda were The original spin doctors.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), December 19, 1999.

Mike--

If Christian ranting is not allowed here (and it shouldn't be) then non-christian ranting shouldn't be allowed, either. Not alot to "detect" there--just a matter of fairness.

Sharing one's faith and posting undocumented trash are two different things. I'm all for the first.

Scarlett

-- Scarlett (ohara@tara.net), December 19, 1999.

"Frankly my Dear, I don't give a damn."

-- Rhett Butler (Scarlett@needs.spanking), December 19, 1999.

Thanks for alerting me to this thread. It provided a bit of entertainment.

I hadn't noticed that Christian ranting was not allowed. It would be a pity if it weren't - what else would we secularists laugh at?

-- kermit (colourmegreen@hotmail.com), December 19, 1999.

Scarlett,

Since I joined the forum back in October of 1998, I've noticed about every week or so "someone" just has to start a religious thread. Seems that's PART of people needing to vent... or get Y2K ready. As long as it's once in awhile, they usually just stand.

The forum "guide"-line that reads:

 This is NOT a forum for continued religious rantings (occasional on- topic discussions are permitted). Posters abusing this guideline will be asked to cease and desist, and/or their ISP provider will be contacted with a complaint notice.

Had to be added after the infamous al-d keep spamming half the threads with "Jesus Saves" and variations on that theme. It was way, WAY over the top, IMHO.

Happy Holidaze.

Diane, once hugged by an angel and it changed my perspectives on reality

(BTW... Check out the Dead Sea Scrolls while youre at it. And Joseph Campbells monumental works. Some mythology, et. al., homework might show you a few "common" plot-lines used over millennia).

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 19, 1999.

See thread...

OT, A little quiz, Who am I talking about? You'll be surprised, guarnteed!!

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 0022v5

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 19, 1999.

????????????????????***Michael Hyatt*** - Feeling Fearful About Y2K? - -- (snooze button, alarmclock_2000@yahoo.com, 1999-12-19)

Then in all fairness, don't forget to delete this one too! As well as my response here. Our varying religious perspectives seem to thread their way through the y2k issue. As a mechanic, I put up with the "religiously correct, Jesus's magic show silver bullet FOF package" everyday, but they always seem to come back when the radiator problem turns into a blown engine. Suggested read Rev 13:14

Is the code broke and the infrastucture gonna stop for a repair? Or is somebodys God (Clinton Cristianity) gonna magically show up to fix the problem?

Good luck with that logic on earth or in heaven.

Is Jesus gonna show you how much you need him or are you gonna show him and me what an idiot you are when you refuse to take responsibily for the realities he created for you to deal with.

Just wondering? its all OT to me!

-- Is real (crandalls@cableone.net), December 19, 1999.

Notice to sysops: This will be my first, last, and ONLY post of this nature. I promise.

To Scarlett and all my family/friends on TB2000:

For thousands of years, humanity has attempted to seek meaning to its' collective existance and to make sense of the world around them. Each culture as it has developed, has sought to explain these philosophies in their own unique, individual way. Thus the birth of religion has as its origins, human interpretation of the divine Creator, Creator's intent, and Creator's purposes. These interpretations do not always correspond with the Creator's own views on the subject, and in practice, they do not necessarily agree with each other. Study, do not just scan or superficially read, the teachings of the Buddha, Mohammed, etc. Then compare those teachings with the way modern cultures have implemented them.

If in doing research on a level containing depth, one finds that the core Theological teachings of every religion the human race has ever established correlate to one core message - LOVE and Compassion. Differentiation occurs when these two principles are put into action based upon cultural imperatives, dogma, and social conditioning. There are, always have been and always will be, those religions that deem non-members of their particular flavor of religion as non-human or at least to some degree less than completely human. The resulting human paradigm has been well established ... those do not believe as we do are to be destroyed for they are the spawn of the dark forces.

Classic examples: The Crusades, The Inquisition, The 'Native American Problem,' The Holocaust, etc ...

(For all of which The Holy See of the Roman Catholic Church has made official apologies and requests for forgiveness. Other world religions may not have been quite so humble and contrite regarding their conduct of similar events.)

IMHO: One of the great truths that Creator asks each of us to comprehend and fulfill, is to see past the differences of religion and find within the willingness to follow Creator's path of unity, LOVE, and compassion. It is, IMHO, that to do otherwise is to reject our Creator in favor of ourselves.

A note on relevancy to y2k: It is MHO that the many uncertainties of what may transpire with respect to y2k issues and events SHOULD lead each and every individual to seek their own peace with their Creator. In doing so, it may happen that each finds a piece of Creator's Grand Design and, perhaps, each will find the answers to the fundamental question: "Who and Why am I?" I pray each finds the answer to that question as much fear and uncertainty can be mitigated, if not eliminated, in its' possession. As has been said: "There is only one outcome to life, and that is death." The question is - what then?

A note on my sources: successful completion of a Bachelor's in Religious Studies, a Master's Degree in Comparative Religion, a Doctorate in Comparative Theology, and 15 years service as an ordained Minister. My flock (if you will) include: Judeo-Christians (from a variety of denominations and sects), Buddhists, Moslems, Native Americans, Wiccans, and many others. And perhaps most importantly, to me anyway, a devout and loving relationship with Creator and my fellow humans.

Blessings upon all of you - today, tomorrow, and always!

In peace and LOVE, Dr. Rev. Michael ThunderLight

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge. of no-where), December 19, 1999.

Diane--

Thanks for responding. However, this thread was much more than someone venting, it was a direct attack on Christ and on Christianity.

In addition to this, Flierdude has also posted information directly attacking Judaism. I believe you removed that post (according to Flierdude.) Why haven't you removed this one? I've always respected your opinions and am sorry to read that you think this type of post is acceptable.

Scarlett

-- Scarlett (ohara@tara.net), December 19, 1999.

*Sigh*

Scarlett... re-read BOTH the old and new testaments, then look up books on the Dead Sea Scrolls.... and "read" them. Then "think."

Also "think" about what has been done on this planet "in the name of" ________ (pick any belief system).

And then work on studying other world religions. And don't forget knowledge of the Essenes and Coptics.

Quite sure "The Teacher" would have.

Open minds, open hearts. (Sometimes).

Love is the bottom-line lesson. Sometimes it's a pain-filled road to realize it.

Good luck on your journey. Recall there are many paths up that mountain.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 19, 1999.

Diane-- Ah, you write in such a calm, lofty, and friendly tone. For a bigot, that is

-- speakeasy (speak4@yourself.com), December 19, 1999.

Downstreamer, This is most critical for the oil refineries in the midwest and the northeast...where those refineries would be vulnerable to severe candling problems with crude oil lines IF the electricity from utilities goes out. The crude oil lines must be kept above 40 degrees farenheit...and usually that is provided by steam systems fueled by electricity from local utilities because refineries own main power houses just don't have that kind of capacity. They primarily supply electricity for backup safety lighting plus control room lighting and power to computers as well as nearby offices.

Now, IF the cold spell is very strong and dips far enough south it could perhaps spell trouble for refineries in northern Texas. Only a real, Siberian Express with power could muscle down far enough to perhaps create troubles in say Houston or New Orleans. At least that is my understanding.

HEY... is there anyone out there in the Houston or New Orleans area that would care to comment on how cold temperatures can get in your area in the winter? How cold do you remember it getting on New Years in the past? Do you recall very many New Years in the past where temps might dip well below 40 degrees at night? I'm suspecting that it is rare but happens once in a while. So my guess at this distant juncture would still say unlikely to catch most of the southern refineries in a quandry...probably still only a very remote chance...

What about northern Texas or Western Texas like Lubbock, Midland? I think it can get pretty nippy in that neck of the woods too. Any comments yea or nay would be appreciated.

This weather situation certainly bears monitoring for measuring potential impacts on the oil industry.

-- R.C. (racambab@mailcity.com), December 17, 1999.

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-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), December 19, 1999.

Scarlett (and others) -

Disagreeing with some aspect of your belief system (e.g. the divinity of Christ) is not bigotry. It is just a difference of opinion. If you can't stand differences of opinions on a subject of the importance of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, you are lacking the basic mental framework to participate in a democracy, which requires compromise and give and take. What next? Do you want people who deny Christ to be burnt at the stake? What if someone who disagrees with some point of your theology comes to power and wants to burn you at the stake?

Add the Constitution and Bill of Rights to your reading list. Notice the number of times God is mentioned. (The number is zero).

-- kermit (colourmegreen@hotmail.com), December 20, 1999.

Scarlett~

I sympathize with your feelings, but you cannot censor these statements as long as they are not spamming. I too am a christian, but all our religion demands of us is that we "stand" and tell the truth....or "witness"...If you keep trying to stop the naysayers, they get stronger. If your weapons to stop them get stronger, you risk walking down the road of the crusades. Stop and think of Jesus. He didn't run around telling folks to stop thinking that way. He simply went to an open field or a hill and preached... Those who wanted to come , came and listened. Those who didn't want to come and listen closed their ears and their hearts. Sometimes they heard it secondhand and came later. Sometimes they didn't come at all. Now we have the bible to act as our "hill"....those who wish to come will come and those who don't, won't.

Just listen to your heart. Witness that you do in believe, as I did, and then just try to walk in his light and follow his steps. Remember the saying, "what would Jesus do?" It simplifies everything.

May God bless you richly.

-- Ynott (Ynott@incorruptible.com), December 20, 1999.

The problem with ALL religions is that they discriminate, and that isn't the way God works. Inherent in the nature of religions is their need to discriminate, or else they would no longer be religions, they would simply be The Truth, which exists for ALL of God's Creation.

We are ALL part of God, and God does not give special treatment to those who follow certain rules and regulations, which have been written by man in books because they THINK it is what God wants. The rain that falls from the heavens falls equally on all of us, it does not choose to bless followers of certain religions and punish others. We're all in this together, so the tendency of religions to pass judgement on each other is counter-productive, because it really only serves to seperates us. Mankind will not be able to realize the full potential of the power of God within us until we join together, and religions have been a major deterring force in allowing us to do this. They have literally set us back thousands of years from becoming the more highly evolved species that we could have otherwise been by this point in time.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), December 20, 1999.

Hawk, I agree with you 100%. I am not going to badmouth any religion on this or any other forum. I believe that true spirituality comes from within and can be expressed in many ways. That does not change that I am a Christian. But I have lived all over the world now and met many wonderful spiritual people. Whatever works for you.

Oh~ When one says he/she is a Christian, that means one follows Christ, not that one belongs to a particular "sect" or "religion". I have found my peace and my salvation. May you and all people find theirs.

May God bless you richly.

-- Ynott (Ynott@incorruptible.com), December 20, 1999.

Thanks Ynott, no I wasn't responding to you in particular or trying to suggest that their is any problem with your views, I just started typing out thoughts that occured as I read this thread. It's kind of strange, it seems that you really almost have to let go of everything you've been taught, and then what is left is the truth.

Oddly enough, although I'm sure there are some on this forum that will be shocked, I consider myself a Christian as well, because I believe that Jesus Christ lives, and did at one time exist on this Earth. But there isn't a heck of a lot about traditional Christian "religions" that seems real to me. Though I sometimes get frustrated as I witness what is going on with religion, I also try not to criticize them, but rather show them what seems to be closer to the truth.

One other point I'd like the hard-core religious types to consider is this idea about waiting around for God to do something that is going to save us or something like that. What I believe is that God gave us everything we need, and it is UP TO US whether we continue to evolve, or destroy ourselves. In other words, the God that you have been waiting for is right here right now, in each and every one of us, we just need to allow ourselves to know this.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), December 20, 1999.

Hawk:

You are much closer to TRUTH than you may realize. :-)

When we cast off all that we 'think' we know, what is left is what we actually do. Somewhere, somehow, as we move down the rocky road of life, we forget what we have within us. If we can let go of the illusions that we either create for ourselves, or accept those that others create for us, the result is truth.

BTW: this is the true meaning of the use of the term occult in a spiritual context. To occult means to hide. The knowledge is hidden, within ourselves, by ourselves. Our task is to rediscover what we hid underneath all those layers.

Creator hides nothing from us, we are our own deceivers.

I shall pray for your successful journey my friend.

Rev ThunderLight

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge. of no-where), December 20, 1999.

Thank you Rev ThunderLight, I know exactly what you mean! It reminds me of the Pink Floyd album "The Wall," about tearing down the wall of illusions that we have been fed since we were young. All that time we spent learning, only to find out that we need to unlearn it! Life is quite a trip sometimes.

Take care my friend :-)

Vio con Dios

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), December 20, 1999.

Yes, Yes, and YES! to Hawk and Hiding in Plain Sight!!!

I agree with both of you. I also do not adhere to a "strictly" rigid dogma within Christianity. I am offended and yes, frightened, when I see that "glazed" look come over some of their eyes as they spout something they've heard.

I believe that God has a purpose for each of us and that is our life's goal. To seek it out and perform it to the best of our abilities. We all have gifts and must use them or lose them. God is beyond labels and tags. He loves us where we are and for who we are. He EXPECTS us to take care of ourselves. I do not understand the attitude of some folks that all you have to do is sit back and he will "take care of" you. What about the parable of the ten virgins? It is for the end times and very plain in its message. Be ready. Be prepared. Be faithful.

I thank God every day for this forum and finding others who are able to see beyond the confines of traditional dogma espoused in the various denominations and religions. God is for everybody, everywhere....period....He is love. I have experienced his overwhelming love and acceptance. I wish everybody could have that moment as I did. I wish I could live in that moment at all times. I hope that is what "heaven" or the afterlife or whatever frame of reference you choose is like.

All he asks is that we acknowledge him and use the gifts that he gave us. Then we are serving him as he would like.

May God Bless you all Richly.

-- Ynott (Ynott@incorruptible.com), December 20, 1999.

You know it Ynott! It is so much easier to come to the same conclusions when we are dealing with real truth. That's the way it was meant to be... easy.

God is blessing us always, we just have to remember not to forget! But just in case, may God Bless you Richly as well. :-)

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), December 20, 1999.

I think it's great how the truth came shining through after all the babel?

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@hotmail.com), December 20, 1999.

I AM Not a Christian in any way shape or form... But I still Study your history and texts...and the closest that I come to your belief system is the Catharian Heresy..My Prefured Model is that of the Sumerian/Hebrews. When Your "Christ" comes back...he is bringing "His" freinds with...ie. the Anunnaki...The Gods... Do you Realy Thing that They Will Be Happy with you/us... I THINK NOT... "WE" are ALL in 4 a BIG suprise... and NOT a NICE one at that...

p.s. just MY Opinion...

-- Fearchar MacTuagh (terraincognito.@mindspring.com), December 21, 1999.

Christ story is a cover version, apparently

-- number six (!@!.com), December 21, 1999.

Sun-god worshipper here. Very uncomplicated. Recommend it.

-- skinned (up@knees.and_soft_lips), December 21, 1999.