***Time to Loot***

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Went to my brothers house this evening just to pass some time. We had a very nice dinner and the kids got a kick out of driving around looking at Christmas lights. Of course the subject of Y2K was breached and along those lines, speculation of what was yet to come.

Sis (his wife) made mention of a conversation she overheard at work a couple of days ago between two of her employees. She said she overheard somebody say T2L and it caught her ear. Curious as to what T2L was, she ask them what they were talking about.

They said they were talking about Y2K. She said, "what is T2L though"? The employees replied, "Time to Loot. We can't wait for January 1st. Time to Loot" ! She states these two employees are suspect of gang activity anyway and this doesn't suprise her.

I was in shock when she told me that tonight. They live on the outskirts of a metro area of 230,000 people. She manages a resteraunt in that Metro area. Unbelievable.

I'm just glad we are GI's. But the reality of this doesn't hit home until you are face to face with it. I see and hear more reality every day and it just brings things more and more into focus.

I want to give a special thanks to Ed Yourdan and his staff of sysops for this site. This happens to be the most informative site (IMHO) on the net for Y2K matters. Had it not been for this site, I may not be as keen on some things that a person really needs to know. Thanks guys and gals. I hope you are still here on the rollover (and after).

Off to bed now. Good dinner and drive home and I am (yawn) sleepy !

-- Rob (maxovrdrv51@hotmail.com), December 17, 1999


Had a conversation with a guy with gang connections a year ago in Kansas City, Missouri. I asked him if he had heard about Y2k, he said, "Sure, Y2k is T2L". I said, "huh?" He said. "Time to loot."

-- robert waldrop (rmwj@soonernet.com), December 18, 1999.

Similar experience months ago. Flipped on the tv and this guy was one the tv. He said Y2K so of course I became focused. Found out Y2K ment Yes 2 Kia.

-- Lookinatcarstobuy (customer@y2k.com), December 18, 1999.

Sounds like... Time to buy more ammo.

-- 14 more (shopping@days.left), December 18, 1999.

Time 2 Loot means I WILL SHOOT!!!

-- bib (bibwa@usa.net), December 18, 1999.

That's what happens when the have-nots can't possibly keep up with the haves by legitimate means.

-- mil (milleniun@yahoo.com), December 18, 1999.

Racism ? You assume I mentioned a color here ? I think I didn't. I mentioned nothing about racism nor made any tainted statements on this forum, ever. If you do something wrong, black or white, you did something wrong. Call it like it is. But then, after your comments Mr. Bagodonut (LOL), I can make fair assumptions about your lineage. Perpetual whiner and social parasite.

-- Rob (maxovrdrv51@hotmail.com), December 18, 1999.

I believe in T2S = Time to Shoot. Millions of other Americans have the same idea. I heard on the radio last night that the increase in gun sales has doubled in the past six months from the previous 6 months.

-- ~~~~ (~~~~~@~~~~.xcom), December 18, 1999.

Gun sales have topped 3000 per day in California

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), December 19, 1999.

Time for a repost (sorry I lost the URL):


Each year disasters shred thousands of homes and mingled the tatters of lumber, drywall, shingles and roof tiles into one sickening blanket of scrap building materials.

(Photo: Looters openly steal goods during Hurricane Andrew)

As if dealing with a major disaster was not enough, I have found looting to be on the increase.It is interesting to note now and it was appalling to observe then, the majority of the victims were demanding that the "government--or someone--do something." The prevailing rationale was that the victims were not responsible for their own safety and welfare. Unfortunately, the magnitude of this disaster shut down an already cumbersome governmental support system upon which they were depending.

It was during Hurricane Hugo in the Carolinas that I first observed the extent of looting during a disaster. Of the hundreds of victims that I have dealt with, most had lost something to looters. Pillage even occurred in the rural areas. Then came Hurricane Andrew in south Florida. There the storm-related damage estimates reached 20 billion dollars property damage, 250,000 homeless, 35,000 in shelters and 1.3 million lacking power--one of the costliest disasters ever in the United States. Here looting took on a life of its own. Many times whole families, including children, could be seen pushing shopping carts full of merchandise they had stolen.

In any disaster cash is "king" after all the banks were closed. Since lack of electricity meant no electronic funds transfers or interior lighting for the banks, cash was the only method of purchasing in many areas. There was a surprising number of people who had emergency goods to sell but they did not accept credit cards or personal checks. For several weeks, victims could not even get their paychecks cashed.

Unfortunately thieves and looters seek out those who have cash or goods. Most victims are too intent on making a purchase or solving their immediate crisis to be aware that others are watching them. They falsely assume, no one could be so cruel to take from those who already lost most or all of their possessions.

In large disasters, the National Guard will furnish some security, but it will be delayed by the extensive debris blocking the roads. The extent of a large damage area makes the efforts even less effective. Also the expedient focusing of National Guard activity mainly on town centers leaves rural residents unserved, disgruntled and very vulnerable to attack.During Hurricane Andrew, the Assistant City Manager of Homestead, Florida reported that he had a hundred National Guard next to the city hall, but every time he tried to direct them to a problem area, he was told they needed approval from higher up which sometimes took hours and sometimes days. Unfortunately, there was a severe shortage of on-site leadership.

Before the National Guard's presence is known, looting is always widespread. In many cases the plundering is done by "neighbors" from the next block. In one complex, during Hurricane Hugo, three scavengers gained entry into a number of the evacuated apartments. But when they began to pry one door open, one remaining occupant threatened to shoot. The looters then kicked in the door of the next apartment and ransacked it rather than face someone who was armed.

During one disaster, with no street lights, pitch blackness prevailed at night. It was frightening to see many people milling around after dark as both a result of and cause for anxiety. In one suburban area, the National Guard was unable to enforce an imposed curfew as people experienced the boredom and anxiety that rapidly sets in when normal patterns are disrupted. In some low income areas, the bars were in full swing by noon, and by dusk, bands of drunken men were moving out into urban areas looking for something to do.I recall a fright I experienced one evening when returning late to my motel during Hurricane Hugo's recovery operations. I made a wrong turn and found myself lost in the inner city after curfew. When I paused at the first intersection, several people brushed my car checking for an unlocked door. I was fortunate, for they might have broken out a window and crawled in. Needless to say, I did not slow down at other intersections.During Hurricane Andrew, looting was common place and accepted as a way of life. One victim from an upper class neighborhood told me " I was shunned by my neighbors because I rejected an offer to cruise for goods."

Or as Fred Taylor, Metro-Dade police director said,"The looting has occurred in areas made vulnerable in the storm. That's mostly homes on main roads, convenience stores and strip shopping malls. The takers included young people, old people and people with little kids."

In another situation, a looter was questioned about his looting as he carried out a television. He said, "I'm not looting - I need this television."

It was clear the looters knew the inability of law enforcement to handle masses of looters. "The police know we are here," said one female in her late teens, who declined to identify herself. She was pushing a shopping cart overflowing with clothes through the shattered plate glass window of a flooded T.J. Max store.

Police confessed they had more important worries. "Frankly, the priority is not property, " one said. "We're only handling life-threatening situations." What he said is probably true, for the victims I worked who lost most of their personal goods or business inventory due to looting saw very few arrests. Drug stores and veterinary clinics were especially vulnerable for drug theft.

But justice prevailed in one interesting instance. As the crowd cheered, a woman was handcuffed and led away from the Royal Palm Ice Company. Her crime: Trying to cut the line, nearly a quarter-mile long and 5,000 strong, waiting to buy bags of ice from the back of several trailer trucks. A dozen Miami police had been on duty at the ice house since 7 a.m. The wait was at least four hours; the cost for a 4-pound bag was $5. "They are fighting in ice lines all over town," one policeman said.

One thing I have learned is your protection will be your prior planning. During the LA riots, a major portion of those injured were going to get food or water. If they had been prepared to be self-supporting for two weeks, the danger would have past. In addition, I have yet to see a loss due to looting occur to anyone who was prepared to defend their property.During Hurricane Andrew, peaceful citizens packed guns to protect their flattened homes as looters pushed shopping carts through downtown Homestead, Florida. I talked with a lawyer who was a victim and who had been away in another city during the actual storm. His neighbors had called him and told him to buy shotgun ammunition. Being somewhat passive and not knowledgeable about guns, he went to a gun store and asked for ammunition. The store owner asked him what "load" he wanted. Then, noting the unsureness, added, "Is it to be used for rabbits?" The victim replied, "Well not actually--Larger." "For deer?" the owner asked. The victim stammered that he was from Homestead where they had looters. The store owner responded,"Well, why didn't you say so in the first place. Here is the load you need for looters." The homeowner told me that he now cherishes his right to protect himself.

During Hurricane Hugo, prepared neighborhoods barricaded their block. Home watch guards worked in shifts during the day and night. This system was very effective. Active involvement with neighbors now will aid in future group preparedness actions. One store owner I met was the only retailer in his shopping center that was not looted. His solution was a generator for light, a cooler for food and drink, a comfortable chair located in his doorway while on guard and a shotgun. He never had to even point it for all looters gave him full berth while seeking easier spoils.

The larger disasters experienced in this decade continue to breed looting. Unfortunately, because of many disaster's magnitude, the support agencies were unable to adequately handle the effects. There was confusion and false starts on the part of federal and local agencies. Many victims had cause to feel helpless and become angry toward the powers in control.

In any survival situation, knowledge and advance preparation are crucial although loss cannot be completely prevented nor predicted. Yet understanding the tendencies of a natural disaster can enable one to become prepared physically and emotionally. Surely the mistakes made and the lessons learned from past disasters will not soon be forgotten--or will disasters continue to put unprepared people into desperate straits?

[end of cut and paste]

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), March 04, 1999

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), December 19, 1999.

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