I voted for I695 because I felt it was unfair to tax commuters per value of car oppossed to per use of road (like say a gas tax). That way a vehicle wich is brand new ($$) and fuel efficient, which drives 9 miles a day would not get taxed as much as say an older gas hogger that drives 60 miles a day. Anyway . . . I am dissapointed that the continuation of the I695 campaign is to promote a decline in the future livability in this city. I have lived in LA and Chicago. I rode a train to work in Chicago and was stuck in traffic most of my life down in LA. With all the construction going on downtown how on earth do you think we're going to serve the transportation needs of the future by promoting MORE roads (where will you put them) and basically advocate more and more single drivers? I'm dissapointed. Sure we can find fault with some of the rail planning, but that does not mean we need to go in the complete opposite direction. I feel manipulated into Tim Eyman's plan . . . I regret voting for I695. I feel like a big sucker. His strategy and personal initiative is narrow minded . . . I mean more roads?? Come on! Have you looked around lately? That is not the solution. He's forgetting the big picture and not a visionary like I had thought. I welcome a more responsible initiative from Tim and nothing less for my continued support.

-- Will Anderson (willa@vitessa.net), December 16, 1999

Answers

Amen to that! Wake up, Washington, and recognize Eyman for what he is: A self-serving IDIOT who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing.

STOP EYMAN's WINDMILL-CHASING CAMPAIGN!

-- shallora (shallora@hotmail.com), December 16, 1999.

"He's forgetting the big picture and not a visionary like I had thought. " And the people who are pushing light rail WHICH WE HAD IN THE FOURTIES AND GOT RID OF BECAUSE IT WAS INFERIOR TO BUS SERVICE are forward thinking visionaries??? The current politicians have a bad plan that they are executing poorly. He's got a better plan. He deserves his chance. They've had more than time enough to show results.

-- Craig Carson (craigcar@crosswinds.net), December 16, 1999.

http://www.trolleydays.org/car55inoperation.htm http://www.trolleydays.org/history.htm

For you trolley buffs. These were ALL OVER the Sound in the 20s and went away after WWII due to competition from autos and diesel buses. Why would they work better today than they worked in the 40s? They are still slow, as well as manpower and capital intensive.

-- (craigcar@crosswinds.net), December 16, 1999.

>And the people who are pushing light rail WHICH WE >HAD IN THE FOURTIES AND GOT RID OF BECAUSE IT WAS >INFERIOR TO BUS SERVICE

Not inferior. Different. Besides, if you know anything about the history of the automobile lobby 1948-1953, you then also know that GM and Ford (but especially GM) muscled our nation's privately-operated trolley lines out of business in order to replace rail service with buses. The details are too lengthy to get into on this forum, but if you're interested in the subject, the information's not hard to find.

>The current politicians have a bad plan that they are >executing poorly. He's got a better plan. He deserves his >chance. They've had more than time enough to show results.

What plan does Eyman have? So far, he seems to be AGAINST everything, but FOR nothing! As for "they" who have had "more than time enough to show results," I point you to the fact that they ARE showing results, in the form of Sound Transit, etc. Don't you read the papers? Sound Transit is progressing! And the last time I checked, "progressing" is a similar word to "results."

But now that we're oh-so near the final results of Sound Transit, along comes Eyman to kill it before it's ever had time to play. This is kind of like benching your quarterback before he's even been put into the game.

What's Eyman so afraid of? That light rail will work? That people will call for expansion of a light rail system? That his beloved car empire won't be so strong anymore?

Seems awfully strange to spend so much money and have gone so far with Sound Transit only to bench it before it's ever taken a snap.

What's Eyman afraid of?

-- shallora (shallora@hotmail.com), December 16, 1999.

Fine, you want masked transit? YOU pay for it. Pay to build it and pay to operate it. Sound Transit voters weren't given more than one choice. They voted for it hoping YOU would ride it so they could get to work in their cars. Now Tim gives them an alternative and you whine and call him names. The socialists are coming to get us he-he, ha-ha, ho-ho!

-- Marsha (acorn_nut@hotmail.com), December 16, 1999.

>And the people who are pushing light rail WHICH WE >HAD IN THE FOURTIES AND GOT RID OF BECAUSE IT WAS >INFERIOR TO BUS SERVICE Not inferior. Different. Besides, if you know anything about the history of the automobile lobby 1948-1953, you then also know that GM and Ford (but especially GM) muscled our nation's privately-operated trolley lines out of business in order to replace rail service with buses. The details are too lengthy to get into on this forum, but if you're interested in the subject, the information's not hard to find. DIFFERENT AND INFERIOR. For those who want a history of the mean automakers out to get the trollies, read this reference: http://ti.org/LRMyth.html

>The current politicians have a bad plan that they are >executing poorly. He's got a better plan. He deserves his >chance. They've had more than time enough to show results. What plan does Eyman have? So far, he seems to be AGAINST everything, but FOR nothing! As for "they" who have had "more than time enough to show results," I point you to the fact that they ARE showing results, in the form of Sound Transit, etc. Don't you read the papers? Sound Transit is progressing! And the last time I checked, "progressing" is a similar word to "results." IF YOU READ THE PAPERS, SOUND TRANSIT IS OVER BUDGET AND BEHIND SCHEDULE. Sounder service should have already started. Theyve had one run with politicians and press. So far they have mainly succeeded in subsidizing BNSF. They are facing considerable opposition to running 60 mph freight trains and 80 mph passenger trains through downtown Puyallup/Auburn/Kent. They have yet to address the fact that the train tunnel in downtown Seattle really doesnt meet safety standards for passenger rail. Every day of additional delay drives the cost higher. LINK Light rail is in trouble in the Rainier Valley and in trouble in Tukwila. (The less said about the Tacoma $65 million 1.6 mile amusement park ride to replace one (1) bus, the better). I dont envision park n rides at Sea Tac airport, and I dont envision them at the UW either. That means itll draw from about 4 square miles of Seattle, scarcely enough to make ANY noticeable difference in the congestion.

But now that we're oh-so near the final results of Sound Transit, along comes Eyman to kill it before it's ever had time to play. YOU ARE NOWHERE CLOSE TO THE FINAL RESULTS FOR SOUND TRANSIT. The first shovel of dirt hasnt been tossed on LINK. Sounder, as noted, is behind its timeline and over its budget, and Sound Transit is frankly admitting that without $60 million from the state, which they arent going to get, they will have to renegotiate the whole deal with BNSF.

This is kind of like benching your quarterback before he's even been put into the game. QUARTERBACK? Even if the highly inflated figures that were used to justify Sound Transit (which they are already backing away from, if you compare the early USDOT grant applications to the current set) were true, they would account for a trivial fraction of the total passenger miles.

What's Eyman so afraid of? That light rail will work? That people will call for expansion of a light rail system? That his beloved car empire won't be so strong anymore? Seems awfully strange to spend so much money and have gone so far with Sound Transit only to bench it before it's ever taken a snap. What's Eyman afraid of? BEATS ME! Heights maybe, fear of flying isnt uncommon. I know hes not particularly afraid of light rail working. As I said, even if it performs up to its claims (the original ones even), it will have a trivial effect on congestion. Maybe hes afraid that we are wasting money on a pipe dream. Thatd be my guess.

-- (craigcar@crosswinds.net), December 16, 1999.

Shallora,

Wonderful thing, democracy. I'm given to understand that, with the predicted ending of civilization by you anti-695 types failing to materialize, the freeway to Olympia remains (relatively) intact.

In your world, those of us who supported Tim and the initiative were stupid. You and your whole 6 years of experience obviously know far more then the rest of us. So, why don't YOU write an initiative, full, no doubt, of your glaring brilliance; get your butt down to Olympia; file the damned thing; and go get the signatures necessary to put it on the ballot?

You'll get a fortune in support from Boeing, AWB, and all the union lackies. What's stopping you?

WE VOTED THIS IN. IT'S THE LAW. GET OVER IT. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, START YOUR OWN!

See how far it gets you.

Westin

"Have you emailed Rep. Fisher (fisher_ru@leg.wa.gov) to resign today?"

-- Westin (jimwestin@netscape.net), December 16, 1999.

So you feel like a sucker, do ya? Hmm, I always thought it took a lot of guts for those people who sue the tobacco companies to actually stand up, in front of a large group of people and say "I never knew cigarettes caused health problems". It never ceases to amaze me how people will put themselves in the crosshairs by saying "I'm a sucker, I never read the warning labels, I never read a newspaper, I never turned on the tv, I live in an hermetically sealed vacuum, and am completely incapable of making decisions or rationalizing situations on my own... I'm a big wooly sheep, and I need the dogs of government nipping at my heels to keep me in line, otherwise I might fall backwards into smoking something, or voting for something that I might not really have wanted to pass."

Option 2: They're lying.

There ya have it.

They're complete nimrods, or they're lying. Take your pick.

-- Paul Oss (jnaut@earthlink.net), December 16, 1999.

Marsha, Sound Transit has been paid for, the money is dedicated and federal money earmarked. isn't shelving plans that we have spent millions on kind of like business as usual? What happens to all of the right of way acquisition? If we shelve the plans, the people that were bought out of their homes will sue the hell out of us, because the condemnation was done for nothing.

I would have to agree that it is benching your quarterback before he gets a chance to start.

Plus you would have to agree that some aspects of sound transit benefit eyeman's plan, and now under his own initiative even those aspects will be shelved.

-- theman (theman@wuzzup.com), December 17, 1999.

"Marsha, Sound Transit has been paid for, the money is dedicated and federal money earmarked. isn't shelving plans that we have spent millions on kind of like business as usual? What happens to all of the right of way acquisition? If we shelve the plans, the people that were bought out of their homes will sue the hell out of us, because the condemnation was done for nothing."

NOT HARDLY! The route for LINK was just approved the 19th of November (http://archives.seattletimes.com/cgi-bin/texis.mummy/web/vortex/displ ay?storyID=383671695&query=light+rail) and the environmental impact statement hasn't been prepared. There are lawsuits coming from Rainier Valley (because it's above ground) and from Tukwila (because it skillfully avoids Southcenter) Ain't nothing earmarked, and it'll be in stiff competition with 10 other areas for a declining piece of the pie. Dedicated busways are now being looked at by the USDOT as a better option because they carry more people at a fraction of the cost. With regard to Sounder, they are behind schedule, over budget, getting snookered by BNSF, and I'll be greatly surprised if they're allowed to use the Seattle Train tunnel without another $80 million or so in safety improvements. Nobody's been bought out of anything. Where do you get this nonsense? Sound Transit has a good info site and the Times and PI have archive search functions. Do you just make up "facts" to support your argument du jour? There is an external reality you know, and with your net access (if you don't have it, you're not reading this) it really isn't that hard to tell what's going on in the real world.

-- (craigcar@crosswind.net), December 17, 1999.

Let's see.......... Aplan to use the money to build and maintain roads....HMMMMMMMMM aren't they or MAJOR means of transportation?

No let's build a Lionel Train set that ruins the traffic flow which is already screwed up so we can move the people who used to ride buses from the UW to Southcenter.

What an amazing feat. What foresight!!!!! What a stride toward the future!!!!

Let's see... Against a toy train set and FOR road construction.

Yep Shallora you hit the nail on the head. He is ONLY agianst things and hasn't got a clue about a positive plan...

Go paint a sign!!!

-- maddjak (maddjak@hotmail.com), December 17, 1999.

theman,

Ah yes, the greatly prized "Federal Money". Where do you suppose that comes from. The great pumpkin? Some of that "Federal Money" comes out of MY pocket. For those in Sound Transit's district, they get stuck twice.

Only one choice was given voters for Sound Transit. One. A bad one at that.

I do not have to agree that some aspects of sound transit benefit Eyman's plan. Do you know what the point of this initiative is? Or I- 695, or the "son"? Tim and his supporters want to stop the government from spending our money in stupid ways.

Spend billions and they will come. Sound Transit will operate at full capacity and everyone will be begging to ride. Pay way too much for tabs, and everyone will have a free ride on the bus. Raise property taxes by unrealistic assessments, hey, it will eliminate the poor. Dreaming and wishing will NOT make it so. Throwing money away is simply throwing money away. If the State and Local Governments can't control themselves in good economic times, YOU WON'T WANT TO BE AROUND when the economy turns bad.

-- Marsha (acorn_nut@hotmail.com), December 17, 1999.