Europe not alarmed : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

Hello everyone,

---from the Netherlands---I have been reading your questions and replies for some time now. Over here (in Europe), people are totally unconcerned about Y2K preparations. I don't think anybody is going to dig a shelter or buy a gun (illegal by the way(the gun part)) in order to prepare. Maybe buy some food, batteries etc. but no large-scale stuff. Everything seems to be fine on the Y2K front over here. Judging from government and business reports on Y2K, I think I have to agree. Are we all crazy over here or are you?

Kind regards,


-- Rogier Gerritzen (, December 16, 1999


Hi Rogier,

I agree, most people in Europe are 'not alarmed', and not preparing. From what I hear, most people in the US are 'not alarmed', and not preparing. Across the world, the official message has been accepted: the problem has been licked.

Some of us in Europe are 'alarmed', and have been contributing to this forum for longer or shorter times. We are trying to prepare.

It is not crazy to prepare for emergencies. My preps recently came in useful during the Danish hurricane.

-- Risteard Mac Thomais (, December 16, 1999.

Yes but do you think anyone over here (Europe) has gone to extremes in order to prepare? I have not heard of anyone digging shelters or stocking up on food in the Netherlands. Moreover, unlike most contributors to this forum, I don't see why I should automatically mistrust the government. Perhaps things are different in other countries though. And I am glad you put your supplies to good use during the storm. I hope you won't have to use them again. If not, and you're right and I'm wrong, then I suppose Europe is in for a whole lot of trouble.

Kind regards,



-- Rogier Gerritzen (, December 16, 1999.

Why Europeans shouldn't trust their Government's statements - exhibit A) British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain, on return from meeting Adolf Hitler in Munich:

"My good friends, for the second time in our history, a British Prime Minister has returned from Germany bringing peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time... Go home and get a nice quiet sleep."

HE wanted to believe it. WE wanted to believe it, and we did. The alternative (another European War) was too horrible to contemplate.

The truth about Y2K may also be too horrible to contemplate ... but I hope not.

-- Risteard Mac Thomais (, December 16, 1999.

Roger: The United States were founded because of our experience with an oppressive government in the late 18th century. We learned from Day One not to trust government. Rule #1: Governments always lie, always!

-- cody (, December 16, 1999.

Maybe you are right and governments do lie. In the case of mr. Chamerlain, he truly believed that he could prevent a war this way. He did not lie, he simply was ignorant. I don't think you can compare an incident from 1938 with the current Y2K questions. And yes, governments probably do lie on occasion, they have to, just like parents do. However, if they lied about Y2K readiness, that would be the biggest collective lie in the history of mankind. If find that hard to believe.


-- Rogier (, December 16, 1999.


First of all, governments don't lie, people lie. People in government have the force of the state behind their lies. They will lose their jobs, pensions, lifestyles, etc., if they don't lie about this issue.

It was never possible for everyone to prepare. The inventories of necessities are too slim. So, why give anyone an advantage? If the governmental liars had told the truth, the markets would have crashed worldwide, the stocks of essentials would have been depleted, etc. THAT would make it impossible for the powers that be to prepare to save their own worthles skins. So, why not lie?

Over here, distrusting the government is the main national passtime. People across the political spectrum are suspicious of governments, especially our own. The fact that we have an especially proficient liar in the president's office right now doesn't help matters any.

When hearing the statements from your government, press, media, etc., always ask yourself what they have to gain? In the case of Y2K, it's a lot.

But hey, I'm just a Kook

-- Y2Kook (, December 16, 1999.

rogier, ik heb mezelf ingegraven midden op de veluwe. Mij kan niets gebeuren.

er zijn dus toch mensen die Y2K serieus nemen..

-- rob (, December 16, 1999.

Hi Rob, I didn't expect you here! Part of the conspiracy and monitoring me?


-- Rogier (, December 16, 1999.

Rogier, my impression is that most of those "digging shelters" in the U.S. are either the government or big business, not individuals. Would you suggest that we obediently do as they tell us to do (in other words, nothing) rather than what they are doing themselves? And are the government and business "reports" you refer to the actual data or just the executive summaries and public relations releases? Good luck in your locale.

-- Brooks (, December 16, 1999.


The problem is objective in nature. Systems which were not designed properly and which are not remediated properly will fail. Sometimes they will fail spectacularly and in ways which will be unrecoverable.

The impact of this will be the degree to which local, national and international business and government is dependent upon these systems for operations as well as administration. There are issues of interdependency as well. There are social issues which compound the problems of a technical nature.

In your post and question you are deriving your opinion from public relations statements of news outlets, governments and possibly corporations. The question you should be asking is 'Show me the remediated systems running right now.' The FACTS of this should be the only reassurance which you might take comfort in. Public relations statements are not facts, they are not fixed systems.

Regardless of anyone's opinions the facts will prevail. Regardless of anyone's press releases the systems will either fail or they will work. The question is this 'What are the risks and what are the sakes?'

The entire worldwide information technology and control system technology infrastructure is vulnerable. It all must be fixed or discarded. 40 years accumulation of data, software and physical control circuitry must be fixed by 01/01/2000. It doesn't matter what anyone's opinion is on will either be fixed or it will not be. What will the outcome be? That's your guess. Every person must access the risk and the stakes and act accordingly.

The fact that Deutchs Bank in Germany slammed in a set of patches for their new transactional system and that this effort failed for 10 hours in early Dec 1999 shows a number of things. First.. they are not done. They have not spent a year testing their systems in tandem. They could not hide this failure. And lastly, you haven't heard of any other banks doing this same thing and having the same kinds of problems.

Think about that last point for a while. Either Deutchs Bank is really, really far behind OR they are actually out in the lead. You haven't heard of any other big banks having any SWIFT related problems have you? Why only Deutchs Bank? Why in December of 1999? Its a little piece of the puzzle. What puzzle picture does it go with?

Or consider that Chase Manhattan Bank (USA) lost tract of $100 BILLION worth of bonds in November. After trying really hard they finally found $60 BILLION of the bonds. (All in electronic limbo)

That is also another piece of the puzzle. What piece to what puzzle picture? That's your guess. My conclusion is that these systems are like a house of cards three miles high and every one is trying to change the cards on the first few layers without dumping the whole thing over. They are in a race with time because if these cards are not replaced then when the clock strikes twelve they will disappear and the beautiful structure will collapse. My conclusion is that these systems are not fixed.

That's why I am preparing. I like to eat. I like to drink pure water and be warm. I have also prepared for my neighbors as well so that if they need help I will be there for them.

You do what you like. And if you are wrong then 'bye, bye charlie'. Everyone will make a decision and will live with it. The ultimate personal responsibility. Deal with it. And live with it. And don't complain.

Britain imports 80% of their food stuffs. Is that a vulnerability? How about Netherlands? Do you folks produce oil there with those windmills? Or France's 75% dependency on nuclear power. Possibly the wind will not be blowing in your direction at that time. One can only hope. I understand that GAZPROM (Russia) suppies 40% of Germany's natural gas. Well, I'm sure they have it all fixed aren't you??? "...Button up that overcoat...".

Anyway, its not for people here to convince you of a possible outcome. Its your responsibility to convince yourself. It doesn't matter what Europe thinks about Y2K..what matters is what the whole world has done about it. In 15 days we will find out, won't we? Yes we will.

I hope for your sake, and for all of Europe, that your elites have taken good care of the systems they are responsible for, upon which you and they depend. But above all...

...!!!GOD HELP US ALL!!!

-- ..- (dit@dot.dash), December 16, 1999.

Thanks for the extensive reply. However, if nuclear plants do fail and chemical disasters happen, how can I prepare for those? But better safe than sorry on the food- and water question I suppose. I sure hope you are wrong about your pessimistic Y2K prediction and yes, I will be buying food etc. Let's just hope that our leaders did indeed prepare on time.


-- Rogier (, December 16, 1999.


only to give you the last kick towards preparing:

.Gov in Germany (as in most other countries) is telling us that we - the public - don't have to prepare for anything because NOTHING will happen. It will be "same procedure as every year".

Please tell me why the number of policemen on duty will be trippled in Germany compared with a normal New Years Eve? This is reported by .gov officials on yesterday's TV.

Please tell me why the hell they need extra 14,000 soldiers of the Bundesgrenzschutz during roll over plus some 4,000 to 8,000 helping hands from red cross and Technisches Hilfswerk?

You will have to find your own way out of this mess.

I hope the very best for you and all others.

-- Rainbow (, December 16, 1999.

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