I'm sorry, I feel so weird. I was just chastized on the phone by a friend of 12 years b/c I didn't gush all over her engagement ring last time I saw her. She is a high-maintenance kind of friend/person anyway, and I have known that for years, but it is really getting to me now. She CANNOT be concerned w/anything beyond the scope of her little world (I just listened for 30 min to the difference between the colors CHAMPAGNE and IVORY)....they are preparing a TINY bit, but hey I can hardly say anything to her, not even the most benign thing about it, b/c as she claims it stresses her out and she just can't think about it.

I feel like screaming at her HEY YOU WANNA FIND OUT ABOUT BEING STRESSED??? TRY PREPARING FOR THIS FOR THE LAST 18 MONTHS, THEN JUST WAIIIIITING!!!!

I mean, God, there are people living in cardboard boxes in the world, but she can't be bothered and don't even MENTION anything negative to her b/c it would stress her out! Sheesh. What a weenie. I spoke to another friend on the phone who has distanced herself from the first friend for the same reasons and she said "She hasn't changed--you have." THat is true, I have. I think it has been in positive ways.

This girl (the one getting married) is the same one that said if things are bad enough she will just drive to Cedar Creek Lake to get her water and boil it. HA! I asked her if things are THAT bad, that she would go get nasty lake water, what makes her think the absolute social chaos going on wouldn't stop her from even getting there? She went slack-jawed and got tears in her eyes. I felt bad, but I couldn't believe my intelligent, educated friend imagined herself as the only one going to the lake to get water.

My other friend was right, I have changed. I feel like I have grown a second set of eyes that see things I never saw before, or like a whole completely unused portion of my brain is now in use.

Any commiseration out there?

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), December 14, 1999

Answers

I think I need to get new friends who realize there is more to life than a job, a cell phone, stylish clothes, expensive drinks at happy hour, lavish weddings, and social "connections".

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), December 14, 1999.

Zombies, zombies, everywhere, and none will stop to think...

-- dinosaur (dinosaur@williams-net.com), December 14, 1999.

Got it handy now: "And they were marrying and giving in marriage until the day taht Noah entere into teh Ark ...."

-- SH (squirrel@huntr.com), December 14, 1999.

Good luck. I've been looking for friends who are not excessively superficial and materialistic, and who value spirituality. I would prefer they have an IQ of at least 150 for all those late night conversations that seem ever so fascinating when engaged in with wine and bread. I've been waiting and looking for oh 15 years or so... It has been very disapointing for me to watch these characteristics become less rather than more pervasive. The closest I've come is my Indian friend I referred to in another post, who arried last Feb and sounds like she'd get along perfectly with your friend Preparing@home.

-- Hokie (nn@va.com), December 14, 1999.

should read "who married last Feb"

-- Hokie (nn@va.com), December 14, 1999.

I know how you feel. Froth and frills just don't do it for me, I am too mentally exhausted to get engrossed in 'stuff'. What new movie is playing, whats on tv, should the christmas bow go here, should I use my good christmas plates, etc.etc.etc. I just want to run screaming into the night.

I can enjoy conversation other than Y2K of course, but superficial junk just annoys the bejeebers out of me, don't even talk if that is all that is on your mind.

[rant off]

Feel better now having said that....hmmmm wonder whats on tv???

-- Sammie (sammiex0@hotmail.com), December 14, 1999.

Ah yes. What a challenging time! People who I thought were friends, aren't. People I thought I could trust, I can't. Have some friends who are GI but only thinking of themselves and didn't lift one finger or spend one second of time helping me to spread the word and prepare the community. Those friends are out of the picture too.

I didn't have that many mundane people in my life anyway, but the few I thought I knew, I really didn't know. A few are still there, but I have meant dozens of INCREDIBLY wonderful people who GI and are intelligent and have lots of wonderful things about them - we just haven't had much time to talk about those things. I had a few over for the NBC movie and dinner and before the movie wanted to know who everyone was outside of Y2K.

It is very sad, but also part of growth. I have experienced this before as I travel a lot all over the world and read incessantly and feel I change constantly, so have gone through recycling of friends before.

Keep on keeping on....Who knows what wonderful people you have yet to meet.

-- Sheri (wncy2k@nccn.net), December 14, 1999.

That is why I go by Wacko. We will be better off in the long run whar ever happen's.

-- wacko (gonewackie@aol.com), December 14, 1999.

Hokie: I noticed in another post you live in the Hampton Roads area. My in laws live in Va Beach, used to live in Norfolk....(the times I have visited, I have wondered, what the heck is the difference? They seem to run together) My sister in law lives in Newport News, works for World Com. She USED to be the kind of person you described, but now that she has worked her way up to a high dollar job all she can talk about is her Miata and her "bonus trips" to places like Cozumel the company gives her. Zzzzzzz...

Now my mother in law IS as you describe. Fascinating lady. She and my FIL have TONS of money but you would never know it. Live in a tiny condo and don't dress fancy. The computer is the fanciest thing in the house. Not too much into flashing it. The father in law is a jerk, but the mother in law is all into spirituality...she sometimes edges right out there in dingy-land (she once told me she prefers carbonated water to plain b/c she feels like it scrapes all the dirt off the inside of her throat...at that moment I had a vision of what it will be like when we are taking care of her when she is 83...) But other than her rare little moments of dingyness she is quite what you described. Keep looking, Hokie, maybe we'll find "each other", so to speak, one day.

I have faith. If there is me and my husband and you and others, then I HAVE to find a non-materialistic friend someday.

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), December 14, 1999.

...I divorced a woman like that last year. And, FWIW I have been able to convince at least 50+ sheeples to prepare, and they have in turn I am assuming have been able to get others to do the same. In fact, last night when I had to use the final convincing argument that has always helped many of the DGI's I talked to over the last 9 months, which is "no you won't, I'll shoot you...(as I stare them right in the eye}...you will either do your own preps or suffer the consequences if THEY are wrong." It was strange, but last night I said this to a woman I had been becoming "chatty" with...{seemed like an attraction had been developing between us}...and it just kinda dismissed some of the attraction I had been feeling. I don't ever want to be involved ever again with that type of woman.

-- Vern (bacon17@ibm.net), December 14, 1999.

Not to worry! If things get bad, she will come to your house!

-- o (o@o.com), December 14, 1999.

Hokie:

We think alike w/regard to relationships. I can see that both of us would abhor a high maintenance relationship. Good luck to you. I am learning, growing and ... living with no prospects, unfortunately. :)

-- o (o@o.com), December 14, 1999.

Wakeup call?

Excerpted from Revelation chapter 18 "because in her heart she saith, I sit a queen, and a widow I am not, and sorrow I shall not see; because of this, in one day, shall come her plagues, death, and sorrow, and famine; and in fire she shall be utterly burned, because strong is the Lord God who is judging her; and weep over her, and smite themselves for her, shall the kings of the earth, who with her did commit whoredom and did revel, when they may see the smoke of her burning, from afar having stood because of the fear of her torment, saying, Wo, wo, the great city! Babylon, the strong city! because in one hour did come thy judgment. And the merchants of the earth shall weep and sorrow over her, because their lading no one doth buy any more; lading of gold, and silver, and precious stone, and pearl, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyne wood, and every vessel of ivory, and every vessel of most precious wood, and brass, and iron, and marble, and cinnamon, and odours, and ointment, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and cattle, and sheep, and of horses, and of chariots, and of bodies and souls of men. And the fruits of the desire of thy soul did go away from thee, and all things -- the dainty and the bright -- did go away from thee, and no more at all mayest thou find them. The merchants of these things, who were made rich by her, far off shall stand because of the fear of her torment, weeping, and sorrowing, and saying, Wo, wo, the great city, that was arrayed with fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and gilded in gold, and precious stone, and pearls -- because in one hour so much riches were made waste!

And every shipmaster, and all the company upon the ships, and sailors, and as many as work the sea, far off stood, and were crying, seeing the smoke of her burning, saying, "What city is like to the great city?" and they did cast dust upon their heads, and were crying out, weeping and sorrowing, saying, Wo, wo, the great city! in which were made rich all having ships in the sea, out of her costliness -- for in one hour was she made waste."

-- lookinup (waiting@on.god), December 14, 1999.

My online friends are chatting about their little items and what will happen next year (nice things). Because they got together behind my back to ban Y2K talk, I'm so furious I probably will drop them all, if the death of the Internet and lack of food and water doesn't do it first. (In the meantime, I'm not answering email unless it's serious.

-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), December 14, 1999.

After I researched Y2K (about 400 hrs) I literally contacted everyone I knew so they could have a heads up and start preparing. For those not on the net, I sent 132 page packets with a video copy of the CSIS panel from C-Span (June '98).

I ran up a huge phone bill. I spent a lot of money on postage. The data convinced one couple in Arizona, and a friend in Seattle to prepare. Everybody else refuted, ignored, or denied the data.

My familys and my wifes familys response was to call us extremists.

Now we're surrounded by Christmas mayhem and shopping-driven blissful ignorance. People we know seem to be going out of their way to by idiotic extravagances that are 180 degrees from the sane preparation they should be doing.

When I hear people talking about their New Year Parties I can't believe the denial.

We watch and wait. We can't understand why simply preparing for Y2K, earthquakes etc. is so alien to our society.

Bad stuff happens.

We've grown accustomed to "the look" we get when we've discussed our preps.

We don't talk about Y2K anymore. What's the point? There's not enough time and the mainstream media keeps chanting all is OK.

It is strange looking though Y2K eyes. Are we surrounded by the pre- doomed?

I suggest you don't read Poe's Masque of the Red Death.

I feel like we're on a rollercoaster ... we're almost up to the first drop ... at the crest ... and we slide screaming into the fog.

YYYYYYYYYYY222222222222222KKKKKKKKKKKKK!

-- Fractal (bobalex@silverlink.net), December 14, 1999.

:) Thanks crew.

-- Hokie (nn@va.com), December 14, 1999.

I feel infinitely older. And sadder. My children are scattered to the four winds, and only one of them is preparing. The country I used to be so proud of is a hideout for known terrorists from every nasty little country in the world with an axe to grind against it, and we are guinea pigs in the government's totalitarian experiments. Our Comrade Fearless Leader is an impeached traitor with zipper problems. We all stand to lose every last shred of the freedom that was bought and paid for with the blood and body parts of our fathers, uncles, and grandfathers. As the wicked witch said when Dorothy threw the water on her, "What a world! What a world!" This has been a very sobering experience for me. But I can say with pride (for what it's worth) that I GOT IT the first time I read about it, and began preparing immediately. I guess that's the hardest part to figure out: What makes one person catch on instantly, and another, equally intelligent, never get it at all?

-- Liz (lizpavek@hotmail.com), December 14, 1999.

Now you know why I get so frustrated with DWGI neighbors. Too busy golfing and having babies and then I'm a meanie because I won't share my stash ITSHTF! My husband and I were talking about this very thing tonight. We've worked our butts off preparing, and what could any of our neighbors possibly do for us? I grew a second set of eyes a long time ago and decided right then and there, that there will be no help coming from the country club crowd and we must cover our own butts. The only thing I will tell the neighbors is to pack their bags because there's a BIG WHITE BUS a coming for you.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), December 14, 1999.

You know, preparing, I had strong feelings of disconnection when my brother was telling me all about COMDEX last fall (he is a GI, wife a DGI) - we both thought that COMDEX was showing all sorts of cool stuff that use electricity and might not work after y2k!!! I also have had a really hard time getting in any sort of Christmas mood, have not bought a tree, decorated, other than putting the nativity scene out, and nothing else. I also can hardly stand to talk to severe DGI's. It has driven wedges into friendships that are long and old. I feel pretty bad about that, especially since they are good people. I just can't get into the mindset that says, if one stands in the road and prays, then cars will not run you over. I secretly worry about a particular person and his wife just *showing up* at my other place.

I am giving water filters and water FAQ's along with some little goodies for gifts this year. I am sure that these relatives all think I have gone off my rocker for sure this year, but even so, they might figure out that I/we (my husb and me) both care about them, and want them to be alright, so that's the motivation.

I like the doomers on the group quite a bit, and would like to hang with such a bunch of creative, willing and self-sufficient folks. Wish we could find that Galt's gulch........

-- formerly (formerly@nowhere.zzz), December 14, 1999.

Hey Fractal--

Firstly, I had *precisely* the same reaction as you, and followed through on almost an identical course of action.

Secondly, you just totally totally outdid me on the execution end.

As someone who knows first-hand the experiences you've faced, I want to tell you...

I SALUTE YOUR EFFORTS!!!

sean

-- sean (way@to.go), December 14, 1999.

Preparing, I see the world with new eyes since researching and prepping for Y2K. I hope I am a better person for it. Lately I find myself phoning all my friends/relatives and giving my last Y2K prep talk and sort of saying good-bye in case TSHTF and contact becomes impossible. I find the two most important things I would like to work on and keep during these trying times are Love and Compassion. I hope any change I encounter in myself after the rollover is learning new skills and becoming a better person.

-- Debi (LongTimeLurker@shy.com), December 14, 1999.

My DGI friends were concerned about my stress levels and actually chipped in for a gift certifcate for me to get a full body massage at local spa. The waiting room lounge was full of Vickie's Secret Lingerie catalogs. Hedonistic pictures of voluptuous silicone got me depressed to undress...My prep "stress relief" has put 10 lbs on my frame, sitting on my butt at the puter. I thank God I found this forum. You all understand. The friends? They THINK they are coming to my house. Ha! It was a thoughtful, caring gesture but I feel very strange now. They pity me it seems. Odd.

-- Homecanner (tomatoes@mygarden.com), December 14, 1999.

One of my DWGI friends acknowledged that problems were likely. Then he goes and buys a $5,000 organ while refusing to prep. I'm hoping for the best but I'm glad he's 5 hours away. I wouldn't want to join him in what could be a suicide decision if TSHTF. There are plenty of potential looters right next door to us.

Hoping for the best!

-- Robespierre (Robespierre@Terror.com), December 14, 1999.

Changed?

A great deal in fact. But most of those changes have been for the positive. The past 18 months have been very, very difficult in terms of the amount of work Mrs. Rimmer and I have had to accomplish.

Making our technical dependencies more fault tolerant has been both challenging and rewarding. One example: Since moving in here 10 years ago, we have on 3 separate occasions been forced to leave our home due to lack of electricity (all 3 time were in the winter). Today, leaving our house because of a little thing like loss of electricity for a few days seems almost laughable. Makes me wonder why I ever tolerated it in the past. The woodstove stays no matter what Y2K throws our way.

Another example: We are now out of debt (with the sole exception of our house). True, we had started down this road long before Y2K was on our radar screens but Y2K did caus eus to accelerate those plans. A today, for the first time in years, we have no debts. This is both a great feeling and a greaty advantage going into next year.

One last example: Many of the books that have been recommended here have been well worth the time to read: the entire Tom Brown series, Ishmael and The Story of B, Biohazard (Alibek), The Lexus and the Olive Tree, Humanure, The Encyclopedia of Country Living, etc. etc. etc.

The first 6 months was by far the toughest emotionally. The incessant reading - GAO, Senate Committee, Gartner reports, etc. etc, etc, The doubts. The uncertainty. The integration of experience with conflicting statements. The weeding out of the insane. The insanity that remained after ignoring all that we could. The fear. The lost sleep. The realization of just how vulnerable we were. Getting Mrs. Rimmer on board was no small task either but for the past year we have been true partners in this endeavor. I feel it has made our relationship stronger.

Mrs. Rimmer and I agreed that we were morally required to share our concerns with our friends and relatives but after the initial conversations we did not press them on the issue. A few have prepared, many have not. We openly acknowledged that we could be wrong about the potential risks - that we did not have some kind of secret lock on the 'truth'. Neither do we have a magical crystal ball. Our approach with most relatives and friends has been to say simply "Look, we are concerned and this is the reason why. We urge you to go look and decide for yourselves. If you have questions or just want to talk about it, we're here but we'll not press you on it".

This approach has been mavelously effective in reducing our own stress level and maintaining friendships. It has not been so good in convincing people to prepare.

Today, we are much more confident that we personally can handle most of the risks Y2K poses. Our fear level has dropped dramatically for our own personal situation. We are still very concerned however, for friends and relatives. But we did what we could do. We played the cards that were dealt to us. We are prepared to feed and shelter a few of them. We are prepared to help our immediate neighborhood. We cannot help the entire world but we can make a difference in our own little corner of it.

For a long time I resented the time Y2K was taking from all the other things I wanted to do. But the change in our attitude and a stronger self-reliancy has been a reward worth the price of admission.

If absolutely nothing happens to us personally as a result of Y2K, I will consider this forum one of the best classes I ever attended.

"What a long strange trip it's been."

G'night all.

-- Arnie Rimmer (Arnie_Rimmer@usa.net), December 14, 1999.

I've been a 'Doomer' since I was 15. I'm 33. Never married and no kids...which is good in a way but it makes for a lonely existence.

I have a couple of 'freinds' that have 'GI'd' but no serious ties. I've made myself mobile. No...can't take all my food and stuff but enough to get me where I may decide to go if SHTF.

Guess all those thoughts of wanting a family are looking dimmer and dimmer. C'est La Vie' I s'pose....

-- Satanta (satanta@zdnetmail.com), December 14, 1999.

Liz:

No kidding! I was driving down the road one day, listening to the radio, heard something about Y2K...what the heck is Y2K? I went back to my house and typed "Y2K" into my search engine and...OH MY!!!! After 30 days of consistent and persistent reading, my wife and I began our preparations. It has been 16 months, now, and I am tired. I need it to be over...or start. Anyway, it seems that all my friends still "love me to death"..but think I'm nuts about all the "fuss" over this Y2K thing. Yea, as Mr. North says..."they won't prepare,but they will remember". Anyway, I don't know why I "GI" so quickly and all my inner-circle continue to discount it altogether. I have always been a top achiever throughout my life....sports, academics, girls...even earn a nice living...but to go off on a ride like this, even my mother wonders what is "wrong". Here's to hoping I will be subjugated to ridicule over the next 120 days. Peace.

Shepherd

-- shepherd (shepherd@sierratel.com), December 14, 1999.

I don't have to wait until Jan.1st for "the end of the world as we know it"... every night, when I finally manage to get a few winks, it ends. I wake up every morning now to a new world... a world changed from the day before. Those of us who've seen the potential of this situation have morphed into new (and given the possibilities, I'd say improved) versions of ourselves, built to absorb and synthesize incoming information in a way far different from how we might've in the past.

There have been a few threads here in the past that queried the commonality of the GI's. I have my own guess. I feel that there is something strongly Darwinian going on here. I would venture that if each of us volunteered a blood sample for analysis, a study would show our genetic signatures to have unique patterns that differ in some way from those of DGI's. We're like herd animals that for some reason or another, were born with a slightly better sense of smell or hearing to perceive the danger waiting out there in the dark.

Of course, that's just my way of seeing it. Mileage may vary. ;-)

-- Choirboy (choirboy@hellzchoir.edu), December 14, 1999.

preparing,

>>I think I need to get new friends who realize there is more to life than a job, a cell phone, stylish clothes, expensive drinks at happy hour, lavish weddings, and social "connections".<<

I once was lost, and now I'm found

was blind, but now I see.

amen

choirboy,

>>I don't have to wait until Jan.1st for "the end of the world as we know it"... every night, when I finally manage to get a few winks, it ends.<<

well said.

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@hotmail.com), December 14, 1999.

HH here, Well I guess I'm a little different than you guys. I have been following Y2K, and other threats to our cozy little world for a few years now. I have yet to find anyone that takes the combined problem serious. I am a firm believer in the bible, and other prophecies. What started my quest for the truth was the death of my father. He was old fashioned in many ways, and one of the things was eating loaf bread, and dry cereal. He didn't want it in the house!. Well, when he had his first stroke brought on by a brain tumor, every one thought he had lost his mind. He had a strange craving for shreaded wheat, oranges, and almonds. No one thought much of it untill after he died 4 years later, BTW the doctors only gave him 6 months at the start. My mother had a $2,000 cancer policy on him, but the death cert. stated the cause of death was renal failure!. My father had changed hospitals, and doctors twice. My mother consulted with the doctor that performed the autopsy, and he said there was no trace of cancer. Well, so much for the cancer policy. Then later, cancer researchers found that vitamin c, laitrill, and a high fibre diet could prevent, and cure some types of cancer!. Then I read a book on Edgar Cayce, and to my suprise he perscribed the same thing as a cancer cure 50 years before!. The stroke had diminished his mind enough for the animal instinct take over. Much like a dog eating grass to kill worms. Well, I was on my way to becoming a believer in prophecies, and prophets. After reading the prophecies of the Bible, Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce, and countless others the truth became clear. We are living in the last days of this civilization!. Sure in the last millennium they said the same thing, but this world has never had so much going against it, as it does now. I am preparing not only for myself, but for my children, and their children. I have a gut feeling that the bad times will last very long time. This world will rid itself of 90% of its human inhabitants within the next three years. Well if I happen to be wrong, then I wont have to ever buy food, or supplies again. If I am right, then I will have done my part in carrying on the species, and trying to preserve some of the past. I think I owe my children, and other children that I take in, the benefit of the doubt. Flame me, or call me crazy, I dont care, for I think I'm doing the right thing. Well goto go, I'm on long distance to my net provider, and at .10 per minute means big bucks, later, HH. Ps. Don't worry about what others say about your preps, for it is what you believe that counts.

-- The Happy Hoarder (relief@coastalnet.com), December 14, 1999.

Preparing,

I have had many of those high maintenence friends myself in the past. They were "tolerated" most of the time, but I grew weary of the effort involved to find something of meaning to talk about.

By the same token, some doomer friends have also become "high maintenance". So fearful of becoming a gov't slave, that they have enslaved THEMSELVES. Obessive fear is as unattractive to me as a sheeples self centeredness. Actually, come to think of it there is little difference.

The world goes on. Stay prepped as a way of life and find value in friends with BALANCE.

-- farf (madeupguy@hotmail.com), December 14, 1999.

Two ways to view this "friend" thing: those with the most vested in the system, i.e., "successful" people with high incomes, living largely in suburban areas, have more contact with those actually running the corporations and, therefore, know what's really going to happen after y2k. Or, they just have to believe what they hear on Oprah and stuff because they can't even "fathom" that the "system" would betray them, as things have been so good for so long, basically since the 1950's. THEY would say we are a bunch of losers with nothing better to do but spend time researching stuff on the Internet and wasting time in chat rooms -- that we are out of the system that counts and therefore cannot see the truth about y2k, that it's OK fixed; that if we had REAL jobs, making tons of money, we wouldn't be here. At this point, who cares. Look up, because your redemption draweth nigh.

-- Dot (dromano03@snet.com), December 14, 1999.

It's not entirely a black and white issue. My friends are the sort who vote for the local Green Party, are either deeply spiritual or come from a progressive political outlook that has strong ethical and social justice underpinnings. Most of them use woodstoves, know herbcraft of various sorts, have good ecological knowledge, and live lightly on the earth. They are bright, engaged and creative. I feel blessed to have them as friends.

Yet even with that outlook, they don't have the ability to make that conceptual jump and see the computer-aided world as having the same fragile ecology as the natural world. While they live right livelihood here in the present, for the most part they haven't stocked up on anything out of the ordinary. I think they consider my Y2k work to be just my latest passion.

One thing I've hated about all this is the way I've felt like some obnoxious religious proselytizer sometimes. I don't like to be in "convert or die, the end is nigh" mode, not matter how delicately or intelligently or goodhumoredly I may bring it up. It's a bummer, it's a big loud fart in their happy elevator.

But on the other hand, I feel that I''ve been really empowered and grown from all this, learned new skills, gotten a lot more assertive, and feel like I've made a difference.

-- Firemouse (firemouse@fcmail.com), December 14, 1999.

>>Wish we could find that Galt's gulch........<<

formerly,

Kind of ironic that I am now reading Atlas Shrugged and just finished the part about the discovery of Galt's Gulch. Yea, I too would like to find it, but I have a substitute -- 160 acres in the middle of nowhere.

I wish Rand would have made it to 2000. She would have been highly amused with what is going on now.

-- (still@shrugging.com), December 14, 1999.

My husband and I have been preparing since January, when I first heard about Y2K. It has been a constant effort. Most of the people we tried to warn just kind of laughed and wrote us up as extremist. We began keeping a low profile so this is the place we can learn and know that what we are doing is right. I have found that the last month I've been irritable,melancholy and some days I just want to cry. The only way I've countered this is to refresh my spirit enjoy the sunrise read the Bible, Get outside and feel the wind on my face take time each day watching the sunset. Not much longer to wait, I appreciate this forum and the lessons I've learned here and the humor to lift us during these turbulent times.

-- rmoose (hybrmoose@ctel.net), December 14, 1999.

Mr. Rimmer,

Thank you so much for that post. I'm having a rough go this morning, and it was very helpful to me, very well said. You remind me to try for community even in the most unlikely places. Again, thanks.

Satanta,

I have a strong sense of good people coming your way. Hang in there, baby.

-- silver ion (hoping@longw.you), December 14, 1999.

Thanks everyone for your responses, even though I don't know you in person I am glad to know I am not alone. I was quite upset last night, as I guess I have come to the realization that this friendship is probably in its death throes, Y2K or no Y2K. I just so want to be around people who are REAL. The hubby keeps fantasizing out loud about building one of those log cabins we see in the magazines and moving way out somewhere. (BTW, I crack up at those HUGE monstrous log cabins they always feature w/corian countertops, wetbars, an intercom system b/c it is so big--to me that defeats one of the main attractions of a log cabin: coziness!) Maybe someday, maybe sooner than we think we will be about to get out of Suburban HELL and homestead. I am under no romantic allusions, as I once was, that it is easy or romantic. No spending the day lying in a field chewing on a piece of alfalfa watching the clouds roll by (though GOSH that sounds good right about now....) I have read and learned to much about that way of life to think it is easy. However, I think that, while I would still be very busy, it would be a BETTER, more satisyfing kind of busy.

But as to the friends thing, I guess this yr has been a real eye- opener. Someone asked why does one person get it INSTANTLY and others never do? 64 million dollar question, that. My husband and I heard about Y2K on some radio show about 18 months ago (it was just mentioned in passing). I got interested and so did he. I started researching the internet and found this forum among others, and he found Art Bell. He has since decided Art is a little too out there for him (we don't particularly believe in UFO's). We, too, have grown closer because of this experience. We got it IMMEDIATELY.

Many people have theorized that people who get it are more likely to have gone through some kind of survival experience already, have already acheived a level of self- and environment awareness, etc. My entire childhood and adolescence was a survival experience and my husband was in the Army being all he could be for 11 years and was in Desert Storm. He said you haven't experienced anything until you have lived in a tent in Saudi Arabia for six months.

Must go teach the kiddies...thanks again everyone.

BTW, the lines someone quoted from "Amazing Grace" brought me to tears, that is a very very special song to me. And wow, I never saw it in that context.

Preparing

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), December 14, 1999.

I stoppped trying to get the word out to friends, coworkers etc., along time ago, it's a gamble that they don't care if they win or loose at. On Sunday I was bringing in the groceries, and even tho I hate to open the garage door lately, because we have shelving w/food stacked sky high, I call it the Twillight Zone Garage, so on my 2 nd trip to the car I decide to go threw the front door and there standing on the sidewalk is a man, little boy & dog just staring into the garage. The expression on their faces was of shock to see so much stuff stored. I didn't say a word, they moved on, I c/see the man making a mental note of my home in his mind. Won't open my garage door again for anything now. So even a Got It person gets caught w/their pants down. Think positive, better yet maybe someone who knows all the correct words can post the serenity prayer

-- Judy (Dodgeball@done.com), December 14, 1999.

I stoppped trying to get the word out to friends, coworkers etc., along time ago, it's a gamble that they don't care if they win or loose at. On Sunday I was bringing in the groceries, and even tho I hate to open the garage door lately, because we have shelving w/food stacked sky high, I call it the Twillight Zone Garage, so on my 2nd trip to the car I decide to go threw the front door and there standing on the sidewalk is a man, little boy & dog just staring into the garage. The expression on their faces was of shock to see so much stuff stored. I didn't say a word, they moved on, I c/see the man making a mental note of my home in his mind. Won't open my garage door again for anything now. So even a Got It person gets caught w/their pants down. Think positive, better yet maybe someone who knows all the correct words can post the serenity prayer

-- Judy (Dodge@ball.com), December 14, 1999.

For my wife and I, there really hasn't been much change in how people regard us, because we've always been the odd ducks, among both family and friends. We're not trendoid, and both our politics and spirituality seem to confuse them, because both span a lot of classifications. We're the couple that people say of, "Well, they SEEM happy, but I haven't a clue as to why"(G).

I think we're more irritated with them, than they are of us, because they all have that well honed, eye rolling "There they go, again" thing going on. On the bright side though, if we're wrong about Y2K, we won't have to endure a lot of "I told you so's", since they're well used to our "oddness". On a somewhat humorous note, some people have prepped, just to get us off their backs, and my mother (the only living parent, between the two of us) has agreed to come stay here, for rollover(G).

I hope this doesn't come across as shameless, but this looks like a good point to insert a plug. For those wishing to be able to converse with others, in real time, about their Y2K concerns, and those just wanting to have some laughs and good times with people who don't think they're wacko, for prepping, there is a chat room available. THe URL is:

http://homestead.deja.com/user.bok0non/index.html

The password is: newt

A caveat is in order here, however. This room is WIDE open, so it does suffer from the occasional troll attack. If you come to the room, and there seems to be something in the way of a "bar room brawl" going on, try back at another time. When troll-free, it's been a pretty nice place to be.

There are a couple of other chat rooms available, which are troll-free. Unfortunately, due to the troll attacks, a policy is in place for the other rooms, of only giving out the URLs to people who have established themselves as non-trolls.

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), December 14, 1999.

Well, pretty tough to beat the quote from the Book of Revelations (Apocalypse), but I, too, see this in terms of 'waking up' from the nightmare called the Twentieth Century. (ala 'The Matrix' and 'They Live'). May the New Millenium bring us all to a fuller appreciation of what it means to be human, and a greater capacity for love. Light the fire, Lord!

-- Rider (free@last.Amen), December 14, 1999.

Greetings All,

DH and I were discussing this very thing last night. Why can't family and friends extrapolate? Mom-in-law can see pieces of the y2k puzzle, but can't put it all together as a scenario, and then can't see where she fits into the big picture. It is very frustrating (I am sure I'm not alone on that feeling!)

My sister is FINALLY beginning to buy a little extra canned goods and a few bottles of water. Yippeee! I am not griping because I am surprised that she is even doing that much. I gave up trying to talk seriously about y2k to her many months ago. They live in Dallas. I can't think about them too much because I could go crazy. The potential for disaster in a city that size is mind boggling.

On the other hand, my in-laws are "clueless wonders". Occassionally one of them will make a comment like maybe a light bulb is coming on but it never comes to fruition. "I think we need to get that water well dug..." Hello?!!!! Tick, tock, tick, tock...Are you planning on waiting until January? CRAP! I fear it is too late. I also worry because our preps are modest (the best we could do with our limited budget). What about the nearby family members who are doing NOTHING? I can't really think about it for long periods of time, it is just too depressing. We just have to do the best we can and trust God for the rest.

Sorry for the rant. Thanks to all who have posted their thoughts here. You are appreciated more than you know.

-- Sharon (sking@drought-ridden.com), December 14, 1999.

I'm glad there is a conversation about this. My sister and I GI and we have noticed that we both feel we are living in some sort of "quasi-reality" when we venture out into public or when we gather with extended family.

I was at Sam's Club the other day. The store is filled with Christmas decorations, cookies and Christmas music plays in the background. I notice that the average cart contains things like Kareoke machines, electronics, blenders, mostly gift-type stuff. My cart is filled with rice, flour, sugar, batteries, canned-goods, etc.

The background Christmas music, while cheery.. sounds erie to me. I feel invisible to others and my vision of them seems to be cloudy.. like they are in the middle of a white smog.. as if I'm seeing them in a dream. I find myself looking at other carts to take inventory of what is being purchased. I feel somewhat invisible.

When I did notice another cart looking similar to mine, I glanced up to take note of the cart-pusher and our eyes locked long enough for us to understand one another.

While in the check-out line, surrounded by Kareoke machines and blenders, I notice a sign that says "Enter Drawing to win a Free Y2K Survival Kit". Surreal!

On top of all this, my husbands family is the epitomy of conventionalism absorbed in commercialism. They *believe* they have minds of their own and are opinionated. Conversation is filled with mundane, minute details and while I have tried my best over the years to follow the conversation, I still liken myself to "Eddie" (the dog) in the -Frasier- episode.. everyone is talking and you hear what "Eddie" hears: Blah, blah, blah-blah, Eddie, blah, blah-blah, Eddie, blah.

I've come to learn that in order to not look like an alien, depending on the time of year and the gathering, I must first research a few trivial subjects and prepare myself with answers. At Easter time, I must know the exact date that school will be out and when it will start up again in the fall. I once responded by saying, "I guess when the kids go out to catch the bus.. and it doesn't come.. school is over". They just didn't get my point. Why did I need to know this date weeks in advance? They gasped at my answer. Oh well.

Each year we gather at a popular restaurant weeks prior to Christmas. (At this gathering, I must *know* when school Christmas vacation starts and ends *exact dates please*.. and I must also know *what each of my kids are *into*). My God --- the years of torture I have been plagued by because these adults are slaves to the Beanie Baby Cult!! I have been chastised and ridiculed because I have never known the names of those stupid little beasts!! These people have minds of their own?? Well, if they had one original thought.. ya think that thought would enslave them to little bean-stuffed animals?

I'm convinced that the reason why their kids know each beanie baby is because it was shoved on them by their parents who have been influenced by the "crowd" and hypnotized by the "medium".

The conversation turned to Y2K and I was hoping that it would not. I'd have to admit to the Beanie Baby Cult that my basement looks like a grocery store, we have installed a wood stove, had a new well dug with a hand-pump..etc,etc,etc. Y2K was brought up as a joke (wouldn't ya know it). My sister-in-law laugh's and says, "Can you believe these people buying food for this Y2K hoax? I have my can of tuna and my can of spam and I'm set!.. hahaha". My husband decides to jump in and talk about what we have done, trying his best to minimilize what we have done so that he doesn't create a scene. He is made fun of. I was quiet until they made him the brundt of their jokes and I filled them in on *all* that we are doing. What the hell, right?

The conversation turned to their opinions on how to properly clean small game and plant gardens.. as we (once again), didn't know how to do it properly. I guess this is what commercialism does to people. You must give them an original thought and then they spin their web around it. Really weird.

Yes, we feel like we are smack in the middle of the Twilight Zone.

-- Zoned (Twighlight@thezone.com), December 14, 1999.

Preparing, it is such a comforting feeling knowing your not alone. I attended by daughter's christmas dance recital last night. She was in a stunning ballet number, she was so beautiful and graceful. My heart was aching, the tears just streaming down my cheeks. I cluched my youngest to me and held here tight. These cherished moments will be with me always. I have been blessed. These moments are meaningful. Relationships with friends can be a blessing as well. But all relationships must be based on a mutual respect. Whats important to you must necessarily be important to them and vice versa. That is not to say they have to "agree" with you, but if they truly love you, they will not ridicule and be-little you for your actions/beliefs they will be understanding and supportive. No relationship can be healthy with out it respect, understanding and support.

Blessings to you and yours........

-- (karlacalif@aol.com), December 14, 1999.

I'm in my own little corner in my own little chair where I can be what ever I want to be. Lately my friends are those who can enjoy the simple things of life. They remember those carefree Cinderella days. There's an old song by Diana Ross that ask's these questions: "do you know where you're going to ;do you like the things that life are showing you; where are you going to; do you know? I use to have confidence in my answers, now for the first time in my life I DON'T KNOW WHERE I'M GOING TO ! That scares me.

-- Itol D. Youso (mrosscorecomm@hotmail.com), December 14, 1999.

I have been feeling EXACTLY the same way for the past 6 mos. None of my friends GI, they're too preoccupied with Christmas parties, holiday clothes, exchanging gifts and the believe everything is going to be just hunky-dory! We live in Alaska, it is COLD outside, and they all go about their merry little way. I'm stressed because I have last minute preps to buy and am praying the store will have what I need. I do not give a rip about the damn Office "COOKIE EXCHANGE"!

Then, my sister, who lives in Hong Kong, does not GI either. She actually told me if anything were to happen, that the Chinese Mafia would take care of them!! Totally clueless!

My mother, who started me on this whole thing 18 months ago, has now become so complacent, she's not at all concerned.

Yes, I feel like screaming! I am tired of waiting, I want it to be over so I can get on with my life. No matter what that may consist of.

-- Cindy (habrown@alaska.net), December 14, 1999.

I am so glad to hear I am not alone. It's the same at my office--no one wants to even think about it. They think I am paranoid and crazy because I am SO concerned. Everyone one, including most of my relatives, think it's "silly". I just want to stand up and scream "will you just shut up and open your eyes?" Bad things CAN happen here and will if we don't pay attention to what is really important. I am not looking forward to another materialistic Christmas. The very idea of shopping and parties with all this ahead of us makes me sick. Things I am not taking for granted now: a warm bed, hot water, indoor plumbing, sunsets, stars at night, etc. I hope you all have a peaceful Christmas this year. Next year's may not be. God bless.

-- judy (tjfarrar@bellsouth.net), December 14, 1999.

Yep, I am making ten million little sausage balls for the Faculty Christmas Social tomorrow and had to run out and buy a cutesy WAY too expensive ornament for the mandatory ornament exchange. EVERYWHERE I LOOK I CAN'T ESCAPE CHRISTMAS!! Even in normal years, the "Christmas machine" bugs me--this year it is creeping the living hell outta me. Not the HOLIDAY but what we have made of it. I swear if I see another toy store circular or hear about another "CHRISTMAS SALE" I will just cry. This yr I bought only for mom and dad and siblings, hubby and daughter (oh yeah also in-laws)...one gift each (besides daughter) and nothing that requires batteries or electronics or costs over $20. I spent a total of $138 on everyone but the hubby, who wants a CB Radio. (He is a big ol' GI, too, the only one I know in person.) Used to feel required to buy for every dadgum person. Sorry not this year. Pared down my Christmas card list only to those people I have actually SEEN in the last year (that equaled 20 cards).

We have only sparse Christmas decorations and NOTHING with any DISNEY characters on it. Or any other characters for that matter. We "do" Santa, but put very little emphasis on him. There is not one depiction of Santa in the entire house. We do not put lights on the house. We think they are pretty but don't want them up badly enough to do it. We don't buy our tree until maybe a week before and we spend a special night listening to Christmas music, drinking hot cocoa (with marshmallows!) and decorating the tree, the three of us. We go to Midnight Service on Christmas Eve, and THAT is the moment of Christmas for me. When the entire church is lit only by each person's little candle and we are all singing Silent Night with no musical accompaniment. BEAUTIFUL. Goose-bump-raisingly beautiful.

This is a great thread! Thanks guys!

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), December 14, 1999.

Preparing...

.....Yes, I know I'm signing on late, but having printed this thread and taking my time at getting around to reading the whole thing, I feel I can relate to your sentiment. About eight years ago I started to feel the same way about the bulk of my many "friends." I think the problem, without sounding too presumptuous, was that I continueed to learn about the world around me and they were, for the most part, content with the simplistic answers so readily provided for them by the multimedia we refer to as life.

.....I would try to take part in conversations around me, but when I would interject with facts that I had learned, folks just didn't want to know. I think it truly has to do with imposing upon their comfort zone; that's simply "not allowed." People are far more comfortable putting off the "hard-to-deal-with" in their lives. Sometimes you could cut the denial with a knife, it would be so thick. My wife was gradually learning many of the same things as I, through our discussions over time, although I would refrain from telling her some of the more frightening aspects so as not to overly disturb her peace- of-mind.

.....Maybe what you've experienced is similar, maybe not. Could be you just took as long as I did discovering that folks don't really want reality in their lives. When illusion is King, the first casualty is always truth.

.....I guess what I'm trying to ultimately say is this, if you get through live and find one truly good friend, then you can count yourself among the blessed.

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), December 15, 1999.