While it has always been true that this forum's regulars (at least 95%) are highly committed to helping their neighbors and communities and hope Y2K will be a BITR, the forum is slandered repeatedly on the basis of troll posts, both doomer and polly (including pollies who pose as "doomers" and vice versa), AS IF posters look for destruction and will relish calamity.

The best way to oppose lies is simply to speak the truth.

Given what is still, IMO, the same possibilities for breakdowns that I conceived a year ago, and the likelihood that our nation, let alone the world, will go through some serious stress over the coming months, I want to make personally clear what it is that I hope for (and, in my case, pray for) with respect to Y2K.

.. I hope that no one will be killed as a direct or indirect result of a Y2K failure.

.. I hope that the banking system will not collapse and, for that matter, that we are NOT plunged into a corrective depression, however much I rue our financial system.

.. I hope that there will be zero terrorist incidents anywhere in the world traceable to Y2K.

.. I hope that utilities, telecom and all other critical sectors, especially health care, will remain viable.

.. To the degree we experience problems, I hope governments and media will risk telling the truth and trusting their citizens to act responsibly.

.. To the degree we experience problems, I expect to be helping family, friends and neighbors, not at the expense of my responsibilities as husband and father, but as a part of those responsibilities, using wisdom to discern the difference.

.. If the worst happens and we have a societal collapse, I will do my best to work constructively to rebuild what was good in our culture as well as redress what wasn't.

I'll close by saying this: my own broken heart and troubled spirit over many things happening today, not only in our country, but around the world, and my convictions about those matters, are entirely separate from wishing a single calamity on a single soul because of Y2K.

Let me be specific (regulars will understand), I include our leaders first and foremost, including the Clintons. May God have mercy on them and on us. Even when furious at some on this forum, I have never considered them enemies. The same God is my witness.

The Bible says, "he that is glad at calamity shall not be held innocent."

There may indeed be cause for frustration, anger, disappointment, grief and dismay over the coming months, though I have just said "I hope and pray not ..." and meant it. But if "anger" as well as "hope" is going to be "clean", let's make sure we have put Y2K and our future actions into a larger perspective. Otherwise, we may think we are "prepped" for Y2K but we aren't.

The trolls will continue to evidence their disturbed behavior, here and on other fora. So long as you and I have signed up for things that are true and right and are prepared to do our duty (that old American virtue), we can be at peace.

Sign me up. How about you? Maybe a TB2K "Declaration of Hopes" isn't puerile and dippy but the simple kind of old-fashioned commitment that our parents, grandparents and others before them made at times when crises were looming. At a minimum, let's stake out the ground once and for all with respect to the truth about who we are in the face of slander.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), December 13, 1999

Answers

Amen. And pass me a plate of those beans and rice while you're at it, please.

-- (ladybuckeye_59@yahoo.com), December 13, 1999.

Very good, very concise BigDog... I don't know of anyone who wishes the worst case scenario happens, regarding 010100...

But then, I'm just a dog.

BigDog, you da dawg....

snoozin'...

The Dog

-- The Dog (dogdesert@hotmail.com), December 13, 1999.

Of course you say you don't know of anyone who wants to see the end of the world, but anytime someone tries to post that list of quotes of famous people around here who have said that exact thing it magically disappears. I.e, Milne, Its@coming.soon, etc. etc.

Face it, come 1/3/00 you're all going to have to go back to work and get on with your regular lives. Like it or not.

-- (just@another.programmer), December 13, 1999.

Sign me up for your Declaration of Hopes too, Russ. Very thoughtfully written and expresses the attitude of the majority--THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY--of the people who populate this forum.

Above all I hope everyone, polly, doomer and troll alike, has a safe, happy, warm and secure rollover and a prosperous and rewarding New Year

I hope we see more old-timers sign on to this thread, even if it's only to say "Yup, BigDog!"

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), December 13, 1999.

Excellent Post BigDog!!!

KUDOS for you

;-)

-- (karlacalif@aol.com), December 13, 1999.

Hear, Hear.

-- Little Pig (littlepig@brickhouse.com), December 13, 1999.

The post-CDC forum may be active out of intense interest in the final outcome. I am also optimistic that it will be relatively troll-free since I believe that their job -- prevent panic prior to the CDC by rocking the forum from side to side -- will be done. Alas, the silver lining of 01/01/00 -- less trolls!

-- Dave (aaa@aaa.com), December 13, 1999.

Good evening BigDog,-- If you don't mind my skipping the part about "American virtue", I'm already signed up "for things that are true and right and are prepared to do our duty", and have been for a long time.That "old fashioned comittment that our parents, grandparents,and others before them made at times when crises were looming" is something that is to be my greatest gift to my only son.A "Declaration of Hopes" would be something to which I'll gladly add my name and my son Abraham, as well. God Bless, and take care!

on de rock

-- Walter (on de rock@northrock.bm), December 13, 1999.

Peace, Joy, Love, Goodwill to All.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 13, 1999.

Amen!....show me the dotted line?

-- TM (mercier7@pdnt.com), December 13, 1999.

BigDog,

That is very well said and, in my opinion, reflects the views of the majority of legitimate posters to this forum. Sadly, I'd be willing to wager large sums of beans and rice that there is nothing you, or anyone else, can write that will deter the inflammatory rhetoric. I believe that the trolls are very well aware that their accusations of malignant intent apply to what appears to be 1% or less of the posters here. Ironically, it is they who are not willing to accept 99% compliance, even when they can verify it with their own two eyes! TB2000 could have 100 recognizeable posters sign this thread, and still it is absolutely guaranteed it will not make one bit of difference. Trolls don't post the things they do because they believe them, they do it to disrupt. Period. That's what makes them trolls.

-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), December 13, 1999.

Can I ride your Sled Big Dog?

-- Tommy Rogers (Been there@Just a Thought.com), December 13, 1999.

Bravo Big Dog! Bravo!

-- Deb M. (vmcclell@columbus.rr.com), December 13, 1999.

I wish I could agree with Dave When he wrote:

"I am also optimistic that it will be relatively troll-free since I believe that their job -- prevent panic prior to the CDC by rocking the forum from side to side -- will be done. Alas, the silver lining of 01/01/00 -- less trolls!"

Causes me to think upon the govn. press release today.....

"Every day things go wrong, and nobody pays much attention to them, nobody thinks twice about it," said John Koskinen, President's Clinton's top Y2K adviser. "But any of those things that happen on January 1st will immediately be presumed to be the indication of a Y2K problem."

I'm thinking the troll post have already started to cover post-CDC.

-- Tommy Rogers (Been there@Just a Thought.com), December 13, 1999.

>> Sign me up. How about you? <<

By all means. Sign me up, too.

>> Maybe a TB2K "Declaration of Hopes" isn't puerile and dippy... <<

Simple declarations, using plain words to express one's thoughts or feelings, are often the most moving kind of statements anyone can make. Such language has inborn dignity. It is never puerile.

-- Brian McLaughlin (brianm@ims.com), December 13, 1999.

You said it, Big Dog!! Your words are badly needed here.

-- coprolith (coprolith@fakemail.com), December 13, 1999.

Amen and amen. Where's my pen?

-- Mac (sneak@lurk.com), December 13, 1999.

Timing is everything, Big Dog. Nice move. Please add me to the list

-- Nancy (wellsnl@hotmail.com), December 13, 1999.

Big Dog, Well said. I agree entirely.

-- Casey DeFranco (caseyd@silcom.com), December 13, 1999.

Thank you for the thought provoking message.

Excellent post.

-- snooze button (alarmclock_2000@yahoo.com), December 13, 1999.

Sign me up too!

Peace and joy to all.

-- Dian (bdp@accessunited.com), December 13, 1999.

Thanks Big Dog!! You are right-on as usual! Best wishes to you and yours on the other side.

-- jeanne (jeanne@hurry.now), December 13, 1999.

BigDog,

As concise and succinctly as I have ever seen put into words as to my own thoughts and feelings. Glad to see that others feel the same way. My personal opinion is that it doesn't matter what remediation is completed however, I see God's hand in this and soon enough, as the Word says, "every knee will bow". No, this is not TEOTWAWKI, but many things will change IMHO. This world is full of "DGI's" as far as who is ultimately in control here and He is about ready to show Himself! Thanks for your insights......

Don

-- don (mrmtgman@aol.com), December 13, 1999.

Color me puerile and dippy.

-Greybear

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), December 13, 1999.

I like it, Big Dog. God bless all--here's to the triumph of the spirit.

-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), December 13, 1999.

I'll gladly take a pledge, but mine is a little different:

.. I hope that no one in a fit of frustration and anger, as he sits in a bunker in the middle of nowhere and realizes he has thrown away his life on a paranoid fantasy, decides to end it all with shotgun blast.

.. I hope that that no one faces personal bankruptcy because they spent money on preparations that they could not afford.

.. I hope that malcontents who are disappointed that Y2K did not wipe away the system they so despise will not take matters into their own hands and strive to do so by terrorist acts.

.. I hope that the shareholders who lost their shirts in Y2K companies like Accelr8, Viasoft and Zitel will next time do their due diligence and buy stock in a firm with real products for a real problem.

.. When we experience no significant problems I hope that the government and media will find out the truth of how this entire charade was perpetrated on an unsuspecting public.

.. And I hope that all of the doomers will offer a sincere apology to the people that they maliciously denigrated solely because they had a more realistic view of what would happen after the rollover. But I'm not holding my breath.

-- Computer Pro (first_minister@hotmail.com), December 13, 1999.

Well, BD

I agree. Can't post the signature as Phil's software will womet all over the effort.

You are only young once but you can be Puerile and immature forever.

Puerile Sysop # 3

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), December 13, 1999.

Please add my pawprint to those of the pack. This is one group I DO feel like joining. Your outline essentially fits the way I was raised and continue to live. May God Bless and Protect you and yours.

-- Lobo (atthelair@yahoo.com), December 13, 1999.

Big Dog,

I wholeheartedly agree and I think this post was the best Christmas card that anyone could have sent this forum. God speed.

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), December 13, 1999.

Hear, hear! I heartily agree with you, Big Dog...unfortunately, I have little hope in a perfect outcome. But many of our preparations are made for others who may need them. And if not from Y2K, the needs will probably come from other sources.

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), December 13, 1999.

Ditto.

*I hope* the world learns some valuable Y2K and beyond lessons... the easy way... not the hard way.

*I hope* all humans can wake up to their inter/inner-connectedness and begin to share solutions to our globally common problems.

*I hope* we can choose the path of creating community because of what we share in common and cease focusing on the ways in which we are different (i.e. we are all created uniquely).

*I hope* we can find the right stuff within ourselves, and our neighbors, when faced with challenge and change... because... its the right thing to do.

*I hope* we can choose people first... machines second... systems third... money & killing last.

*I hope* our governing officials/politicians/non-leaders learn that telling the truth is more important than storytelling. (Long noses have a way of impeding progress).

*I hope* we learn to love our wonderful wide diverse world more.

*I hope* this is a smooth transition/transformation to a better, more responsible/resilient, world view.

*I hope* its a BUMP... with valuable life & souls growth lessons attached.

*I hope* we all lead wonderful, rich, creative and fullfilling lives... of our own choosing... following our clearest hearts desires.

*I hope* we "meet" again.

Peace & Blessings.

Diane

@}'-->---

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 14, 1999.

Meoooww - Meoooww, Prrrrrrrrr....

-- cat (ccordes@ashland.baysat.net), December 14, 1999.

ME TOO, YAHOOOO, RENDEZVOUS!!

-- spun@lright (mikeymac@uswest.net), December 14, 1999.

Megadodo's (or whatever). Thanks for a quality post.

BTW, Glenn Robinson wants his moniker back.

-- Steve (hartsman@ticon.net), December 14, 1999.

I add my prayers that during the many challenges and changes coming:

May each of you shall be filled with peace, love, compassion, and balance. May all share with each other these bounties that Creator willingly gives without reservation, limitation, or condition.

May each of you find tranquility in the knowledge that each of you has done as your hearts directed you. May your families, friends, and neighbors thrive and prosper.

Remember this my friends: Find comfort in the knowledge that Creator NEVER asks more of any of us then we are able to bear. That just as the strength of a piece of steel comes from its' tempering, so too our strength comes from facing and overcoming adversity. Adversity is but the lamb in wolf's clothing.

Aho! (Native American for Amen, Thank You, and Until Later - all in one.)

BTW: I am an enrolled tribal member. :-)

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge. of no-where), December 14, 1999.

RIGHT ON, Big Dog......and i "sign up", also!

i'm not well known on this forum, cuz i haven't posted much (but i've been lurking here since this forum had about 10 posts)

from that time until now, i've seen posters come and seen 'em go

i can state from experience that the VAST majority of posters here have been ready, willing, and (at most times) able to help out everyone they come across

i can only conclude that in the "real world" they are going to do the same if called upon

yes.....eveyone has a different view on how their physical preps will be disbursed, but if we have a rough ride coming upon us the most important commodity will be info

and this forum's posters have already proven that they're more than willing to share that

-- mebs (andrea@mebs.lurking), December 14, 1999.

Aho!

(Returned... with respect)

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 14, 1999.

BigDog,

Had to stop by again and pay my respects.

["At one time I am sure there was also some unknown man somewhere in Europe or England who also shed tears for similar reasons.

This unknown man, not unknown to God, made a step of faith setting in motion the events that eventually produced this wonderful document and the best country ever to exist in all history.

Yes, many famous and many more unknown took part, but I know that without this ONE unknown man taking that step this country would not have been given birth to.

One man, unknown or not can, for bad or good, change the course of history for there are no unknowns with God.

Is it you?

-- maid upname (noid@ihope.com), November 25, 1999."

"-- it seems to be difficult in 1999 for people to distinguish between values that deserve to be cherished and recovered and utopias. Or, to put it another way, if we aren't talking about utopias, which have the benefit that they are purely imaginary, then the achievement in question deserves to be trashed, mocked, derided and belittled, put "in its place."

Our Declaration of Independence was indeed written by a group of men who (then and now) can justly be regarded as heroic. Not perfect. Not "modern". Not comic book or Hollywood fantasy superheroes. Just heroic.

They were prepared to sacrifice their lives, wealth and reputations for the sake of what they rightly considered the demand of honor and justice. And not just prepared: they did so.

There are indeed moments of history that are "halycon", even though they are still shot through with sin. That was one of them. Thank God.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), November 26, 1999."]

-- maid upname (noid@ihope.com), December 14, 1999.

maid -- let a man master himself before he attempts to master others! I'm still in kindergarten on that one.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), December 14, 1999.

Right between the (my) eyes!

Sign my goodbye post?

-- maid upname (noid@ihope.com), December 14, 1999.

Yes, BigDog!

I'd only add that hopefully, the time & energy TB2Kers have spent on research really winds up being meaningful.................

-- lisa (lisa@work.now), December 14, 1999.