Do you believe...... : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

So lets briefly examine the following fifteen commonly held BELIEFS that MOST Americans BELIEVE to be "true for a fact" and separate BELIEF from REALITY.


Is that you live in a democracy. After all, doesnt our own president keep referring to America as a "democracy" whose job it is to make the whole WORLD "safe for democracy"? The FACT is that America is NOT a democracy and never HAS been. America is a REPUBLIC. Article 4, Section 4 of the U.S. Constitution states: "the United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a REPUBLICAN Form of Government". You pledge allegiance "... to the REPUBLIC for which it stands UNDER GOD..." The word "democracy" does NOT appear in the Constitution, the constitutions of any of the 50 states, or the Declaration of Independence. ALL democracies throughout history have died when a majority of the public realized they could vote themselves their "FAIR SHARE" of the benefits from the public trough. Samuel Adams, Father of the American Revolution, stated: "Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes itself. there never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide". Its not Americas job to make the whole WORLD "safe for democracy". Democracy isnt SAFE ! Its Americas job to defend and protect our constitutional God Given/Inspired REPUBLIC.


Is that the GOVERNMENT grants us our rights, such as our "right" to a good education, and that the job of the COURTS is to defend our rights FOR us. The FACT is, YOUR rights come from GOD, not from ANY creation of MAN. Its NOT the job of the court, your Congressman or anyone ELSE to assert and defend YOUR God-given rights, its YOUR job. Its the COURTs job to merely see that JUSTICE is EQUALLY served.


Is that the Federal Reserve System is a government agency. The FACT is that the Federal Reserve is a PRIVATE, FOR PROFIT corporation, as confirmed by the 9th Circuit Court when it ruled on June 24, 1982 in the case LEWIS vs. United States:

"We conclude that the [Federal] Reserve Banks are NOT federal... but are independent, PRIVATELY owned... corporations... without day to day direction from the federal government".

The Federal Reserve in no more FEDERAL than Federal Express. You won't find it listed in the phone book under GOVERNMENT AGENCIES. Youll find it in the WHITE pages along with OTHER private businesses. The Federal Reserve pays ZERO federal and state income tax, just PROPERTY taxes on its buildings, and has NEVER to this day been fully audited by the General Accounting Office (GAO). And there are NO reserves, as the Boston Federal Reserve Bank admits in its publication "PUTTING IT SIMPLY":

"When you or I write a check there must be sufficient funds in our account to cover that check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check, it is creating money".

Under fractional reserve banking, the "Fed" creates money out of THIN AIR by LENDING it into circulation FULL face value PLUS INTEREST. Since FUTURE loans must be issued to CREATE the money to PAY this interest, the federal debt can NEVER mathematically be repaid, in spite of all the political rhetoric.


Is that inflation is a NATURAL and unavoidable phenomenon. The TRUTH is that inflation is ENGINEERED as each new paper lent dollar into circulation REDUCES the value of all dollars ALREADY in existence. Experience has taught the "Fed" that a 5% annual DEVALUATION of the money supply can be consistently maintained without alarming the public. To date, this insidious tax has gradually ROBBED Americans of over 90% of their purchasing power, thereby generating TRILLIONS of dollars in profits to the private banking monopoly that RENTS us our money supply.


Is that our government owes the currently $5.5 TRILLION dollar debt to ITSELF. Of course if that were TRUE, the government could simply FORGIVE itself its OWN DEBT and START OVER ! the fact is that the government owes the debt to the Federal Reserve System. Or, more accurately, to the mostly FOREIGN FAMILIES who lobbied certain Congressmen to RAMROD through the Federal Reserve Act back in 1913 and to this day comprise Class "A" voting STOCKHOLDERS of the Federal Reserve System.


Is that the 16th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution - the so called "INCOME TAX" amendment - AUTHORIZED the income tax. Not according to the SUPREME COURT, it didnt ! The high court ruled in 1916 in STANTON vs. BALTIC MINING - a case that has NEVER been overturned - that the 16th Amendment conferred, and I quote:

"... no new power of taxation".

Imagine that ! The highest court in the land ruling that the 16th changed absolutely NOTHING ! Why not ? Because the 16th Amendment did NOT REPEAL Article 1, Section 2 Clause 3 or Article 1, Section 9, Clause 4 of the Constitution, which absolutely FORBID Congress from DIRECTLY taxing a U.S. citizen ! So why WAS the 16th written? to create the ILLUSION of a new authority to directly tax U.S. citizens, an illusion upon which the IRS still relies.


And so it seems BEYOND obvious to say so - is that the purpose of the income tax is to raise revenue to pay for the day-to-day operations of the federal government. Not according to the Grace Commission. On January 15, 1984, this private-sector, blue ribbon committee, impaneled by President Ronald Reagan to find ways to cut government spending, stated in their final report to the president:

"... 100% of what is collected is absorbed SOLELY by interest on the Federal Debt... all individual income tax revenues are gone BEFORE one NICKEL is spent on the service taxpayers expect from government".

The FACT is that not ONE DOLLAR of personal income tax collected by the IRS goes to pay for government services, but actually goes to pay the INTEREST on our "DEBT" to the Federal Reserve.

Then why ARE income taxes collected? Again lets hear the TRUTH directly from the source. In a paper titled "Taxes For Revenue Are Obsolete", published in the January 1946 issue of AMERICAN AFFAIRS, Beardsley Ruml, then Chairman of the powerful New York branch of the Federal Reserve System, revealed:

"... the most important SINGLE purpose to be served by the imposition of federal taxes is the maintenance of a dollar which has stable purchasing power over the years. "Without the use of federal taxation, all other means of stabilization... are unavailing".

In other words, the TRUE purpose of the income tax is to maintain economic CONTROL. By siphoning off excess dollars from circulation, the inflation - perhaps even the hyperinflation - that would ordinarily result from issuing too much PAPER money can be masked. Now you know the truth BEHIND the income tax.


Is that the Internal Revenue Code is so bewildering in its complexity that its beyond the comprehension of mere mortals.

Thats simply not true. In fact, Ive given the code to several TWELVE-YEAR-OLDS to read and they had NO problem understanding it at ALL ! Its written in plain English. To understand the code, you simply start with the INDEX. If youre involved in activities relating to, for example, gifts, trusts, estates or the manufacture of alcohol or tobacco products, go to those chapters and locate the LIABILITY statutes to see what youre required to file and pay. However, if youre NOT involved in those activities, youre not the "TAXPAYER" of those taxes and can IGNORE those chapters completely. Repeated warnings from the government and the media have probably led you to BELIEVE that EVERYONE has a requirement to file income tax returns and owes their "FAIR SHARE" of the income tax whether they LIKE paying it or not. Otherwise, why would MILLIONS of blank Form 1040s be piled up each spring in post offices and libraries across America? Why else would the IRS MAIL one to MILLIONS of American homes each year? So does EVERYONE owe the income tax? Who DID Congress make liable ? Was it YOU ? To see where Congress made the U.S. Citizen working within the fifty states liable for the tax on his OWN "INCOME", simply read chapters through six of the code which cover the tax on "INCOME" and locate the corresponding liability statute. GOOD LUCK, because it doesnt EXIST ! You can scan the ENTIRE code by computer on a CD-ROM or on-line on the Internet: ( and I GUARANTEE you wont find it. THOUSANDS have looked with a fine tooth comb and its just NOT THERE. If you do not BELIEVE me, try it YOURSELF. The ONLY liability of the U.S. Citizen is when WITHHOLDING from a FOREIGNER or when working OVERSEAS in a FOREIGN country under a current tax treaty with the U.S. Now, your tax professional may point to code section 1 which imposes the income tax on "individuals", but research the underlying Treasury regulations for code section 1 and you will discover that the "individual" referred to is one with FOREIGN source income ONLY ! Which is why, as outrageous as it may sound, it is absolutely CORRECT to state that, unless in receipt of FOREIGN source income, you are not NOW paying the income tax nor have you EVER paid one DIME in income tax your entire LIFE ! But how could this POSSIBLY be true since youve always filed Form 1040, most likely because you BELIEVE, and this is...


Is that the IRS intended Form 1040 to be used by ALL working Americans to report their income. Not according to the Department of the Treasury which supervises the IRS. Treasury Department Decision 2313 issued on March 21, 1916, states:

"The responsible heads, agents, or representatives of NONRESIDENT ALIENS... shall make a full and complete return of the INCOME there-from on Form 1040...".

As further proof, under the 1980 Paperwork Reduction Act, Congress made the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) the watchdog required to approve ANY government agency form that asks for information from a U.S. citizen. According to the OMB and the National Office of the IRS, the REQUIRED form for a U.S. Citizen to use to report income is NOT Form 1040, its Form 2555, titled "FOREIGN Earned Income". The top of the Form 2225 says "attach to front of Form 1040". Form 1040 "U.S. Individual Income Tax Return" is merely a SUPPLEMENTAL worksheet to the REQUIRED Form 2555, which states "for use by U.S. Citizens...".

Apparently the IRS DOES know the difference between an "INDIVIDUAL" and a "CITIZEN". Sure, youve been filing and signing Form 1040 all along, swearing under penalties of perjury that everything listed on it IS income to you REGARDLESS of its source, foreign or otherwise. And since committing

perjury would be a FELONY, the IRS is correct in PRESUMING that you have sworn to tell the TRUTH. Which is why they dont tear up your 1040 and mail your check back with a letter explaining your mistake. Now you understand the REAL meaning of "VOLUNTARY COMPLIANCE"! So if you havent been paying the INCOME tax, what HAVE you been paying? Youve been paying the EMPLOYMENT tax, otherwise known as the WAGE or SOCIAL SECURITY tax. The EMPLOYMENT TAX is found in chapters twenty-one through twenty-five of the code, and has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the income tax under the law. And who is liable for the EMPLOYMENT TAX? the "EMPLOYEE", a legally defined term with in the law. So is EVERYONE who works for someone else AUTOMATICALLY an "EMPLOYEE"? No, only working VOLUNTEERS. Those who VOLUNTEERED to apply for a Social Security Number. Those who VOLUNTEER to use that number to build up credits towards retirement and other federal benefits. Those who VOLUNTEER to sign a Form W-4 "Employees Withholding ALLOWANCE Certificate" and ALLOW taxes to be withheld from their paycheck. Which leads us to...


That submitting the W-4 is REQUIRED by law. Its NOT ! The fact IS that there is NO law requiring ANY worker to execute a Form W-4. Its STRICTLY ELECTIVE. Of course, it APPEARS mandatory, since most employers wont hire you without one. why not ? Because theyve NEVER read the ACTUAL LAW, so they BELIEVE its required. The W-4 is a PERMISSION SLIP that allows an "EMPLOYER" - another legally defined term - to withhold taxes from an "EMPLOYEE". So is EVERYONE who hires others AUTOMATICALLY an "EMPLOYER"? No, only one who has signed Form SS-4 "Application For Employer Identification Number". As you may have guessed now, THATs not required either ! After all, an application is ALWAYS voluntary, isnt it? Otherwise, thered be no reason to apply! The proper paperwork to STOP tax withholding in the workplace is explained in 26 Code of Federal Regulations, section 1.1441-5 and in IRS Publication 515, which in speaking to the withholding agent states:

"If an individual gives you a written statement stating that he or she is a CITIZEN or RESIDENT of the United States, and you do not know OTHERWISE, you do NOT have withhold tax".

Imagine THAT ! One who hires other does NOT need to be an unpaid bookkeeper for the federal government! And a worker doesnt HAVE to give the government an interest-free loan. Since everyone asks for your Social Security Number, you probably BELIEVE and this is...


That you are REQUIRED to obtain a number for yourself and your child. Not true and NEVER has been. The fact IS, as the Social Security Administration readily admits in its standard form letter to ANYONE who asks:

"The Social Security Act does NOT require a person to have a Social Security number in order to live and work in the United States, nor does it require a [number] simply for the sake of having one".

Title 42 of the United States Code, Section 405(B)(i) states under Subsection (II) that Social Security Numbers are assigned:

"... to and individual who is an APPLICANT for or recipient of benefits".

Theres NO law that REQUIRES a U.S. citizen to obtain or use a number, or to get one for their child. Shocked? It gets worse. the IRS cant even establish a record in their computer systems (by law) for any entity that does NOT volunteer to number itself, whether a corporation, a partnership or a natural person. Which is why those choose NOT to apply for a Social Security are non-taxpayers and are NEVER contacted by the IRS their entire LIVES!


Is that the law REQUIRES EVERYONE to join Social Security and pay Social Security taxes, and that NO one could possibly ever QUIT Social Security. This is perhaps the BIGGEST deceit of all. Walter E. Williams, Distinguished Professor of Economics at George Mason University, wrote:

"All we have to do now is to inform the public that the payment of social security taxes is VOLUNTARY and watch the mass exodus".

Especially when they fully realize the impact of what Dorcas Hardy, former Commissioner of Social Security, wrote in the December 1995 issue of Readers Digest:

"There is no prospect that todays younger workers will receive all the Social Security and Medicare benefits currently promised them".

Tens of THOUSANDS of well informed U.S. citizens have ALREADY quit Social Security - 100% LEGALLY - by submitting an Affidavit of Revocation and Rescission to Secretary of the Treasury, REVOKING their VOLUNTARY application for a Social Security Number.


Based upon MOST Americans ingrained fear of audits, is that you MUST produce your books and records when summoned to appear before the IRS. Not according to the courts. On July 28, 1969, 7th Circuit Court of Appeals Judge Cummings stated in the case U.S. v. Dickerson:

"Only the rare taxpayer would be likely to know that he could REFUSE to produce his records to IRS agents...

"Who would believe the ironic truth that the COOPERATIVE taxpayer fares much WORSE than individual who relies upon his constitutional RIGHTS".

The fact IS that the 4th and 5th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution PROTECT your right to privacy in your books and records and your right NOT to be compelled to be a witness AGAINST yourself in a criminal action.


Is that the IRS has the lawful authority to levy upon the paycheck or bank account of a U.S. citizen. Not according to the Internal Code (Title 26) Section 6331, titled "Levy and Distraint", paragraph (a) states:

"Levy may be made upon the accrues salary or wages of any OFFICER, EMPLOYEE, or ELECTED OFFICIAL of the United States, [or] the District of Columbia...".

No mention of the U.S. Citizen, is there? Of course, that wouldnt stop the IRS from levying YOU, would it?


Our FINAL belief is that, given the horror stories youve seen and heard, if YOU were to decide to take a stand for YOUR rights and were to STOP "DOING BUSINESS" with the IRS, youd be on your own with no support or assistance available. Fortunately, this too is false. Out of a profusion of so-called "un-tax" and "de-tax" groups that rely upon untested theories, unproven arguments and "silver bullets", there has emerged ONE prestigious, national organization which serves no other purpose than to actively promote the study of the law and to assist its members in the assertion of their rights in accordance with the law, ESPECIALLY when dealing with the IRS and the state taxing agencies.

Its called the Save-A-Patriot Fellowship, and has been in CONTINUOUS existence since 1984 at the same physical location - 12 Carroll Street in Westminster, Maryland - and has members in all fifty states.

Our members are aware that various government agencies - and the IRS in PARTICULAR - are systematically infringing upon individual rights; that this infringement is often a direct result of inadequately trained government employees who are more concerned with adhering to administrative "POLICY" than to the written law itself; and that such policy often runs counter to the constitutional LIMITS that are imposed on the government.

As the result of YEARS of dedicated legal research, correspondence and even legal BATTLES with the IRS, our staff has ALREADY sorted through what would take the AVERAGE person a LIFETIME to figure out on his or her own.

Our association recognizes the necessity of raising revenues through taxation but ALSO recognizes that this necessity has provisions in the LAW and that the government in meeting its exigencies may NOT extend its activities BEYOND the law.

The Fellowship is therefore NOT a "tax protest" group, but is a First Amendment association dedicated to confining IRS and other government personnel within the law AS IT IS ACTUALLY WRITTEN.

When someone joins the Fellowship, it is a foregone conclusion that they are particularly concerned with the IRS and its propensity to MISAPPLY the law and to illegally enforce its provisions.

Fellowship members know that the IRS keeps the multitudes in line by using the news media to plant stories suggesting that resistance is useless and reprisal is swift and painful. These "reminders" and a lifetime of Pavlovian conditioning make it difficult for MOST people to take the first break-away step. However, since Fellowship members have taken the time to EDUCATE themselves and prepare a proper legal defense, the risk has been removed! The Fellowship provides mutual aid, support, and assistance to those who wish to assert their rights. This is accomplished in a number of ways.

First, the Fellowship operates much like an insurance company in that members pledge to assist other members should they suffer a loss of cash or property. In the event that any member is damaged financially by the IRS or state taxing agencies as a result of illegal collection practices and confiscations, the member is reimbursed up to one-hundred and fifty thousand dollars through a uniform assessment of the membership, currently costing each member just $15 to $20 dollars per month, a figure which has steadily declined over the years as members continue to join. This MEMBER ASSISTANCE PROGRAM goes a long way towards removing the fear of asserting ones rights in the face of a frequently oppressive taxing authority. And since the member is REIMBURSED and its the IRS that has spent thousands in PURSUING the member, who has REALLY been damaged? With the financial threat of asserting ones Liberty thereby removed, "closet" Patriots are joining the Fellowship in droves. Welcome to the Constitutional Revivalist Movement !

Second, the Fellowship provides educational materials and resources in the form of newsletters, videos, audio cassettes, and books. Our members-only newsletter, "Reasonable Action", has for the past ten years been regarded by many as one of the most highly respected tax-oriented publications in the nation.

Third, the Fellowship has researched and developed legal defensive weapons to protect our members Liberty and Property, and provides assistance via our paralegal and case development departments. Should the IRS attempt to contact a member, caseworkers are available to handle the correspondence and to address any improper requests or allegations. 1f the IRS attempts to move forward with an improper lien or illegal collection action, paralegals are available to assist.

Since 1984, the Fellowship has published a flyer titled "Believe It Or Not!" which offers a $10,000 Cash Reward to ANYONE - in or out of government who can DISPROVE the statements in the flyer To date, not a SINGLE judge, politician, lawyer, C.P.A. or IRS official has been able to collect the reward, and MANY have tried.

The research this flyer has spurred has produced MANY en-lightened C.P.A.s and tax professionals.

For many years, by using fear of audit and other scare tactics, the IRS has maintained CONSTANT surveillance over MILLIONS of honest Americans. Now, its time now to reach out and inform the public that our investigation of the IRS ITSELF is complete. There ARE no more missing puzzle pieces. The picture is complete and its not a pretty one. After viewing it, you may NEVER look at your government the same way again.

Its time for Americans to take our country back, beginning with our pocketbooks. For, without our rights to Property asserted and defended, true Liberty in America can never exist.

If you would like to avail yourself of the opportunity to receive the finest "adult education" currently available with regards to our constitutional heritage, including a thorough and accurate analysis of the LIMITED liability of the U S. citizen for internal taxation, please contact the qualified Independent Representative of The Save-A-Patriot Fellowship who provided you steered you to this information and ask about our educational, Limited Membership.

On the other hand, if you or someone you care about needs assistance in responding properly to a Notice of Deficiency, lien, levy or seizure or to other correspondence received from the Internal Revenue Service or state taxing agency; or needs assistance in stopping tax withholding in the workplace; or in quitting Social Security; or in filing bankruptcy to stop tax collection activity; or with any other tax issue requiring legal assistance and defense, be sure to inquire about our FULL Membership.

Also, ask how to order the following powerful VHS video presentations: our eye-opening, two-hour introductory video, titled "The Truth BEHIND The Income Tax" and our ground-breaking twelve-hour video seminar, titled "Just The Facts"

This web site best viewed in frames CLICK HERE

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-- unbelievable (, December 11, 1999


Unbelievable - You're a clown. The problem is your posts are so long I can't be bothered to read the whole thing or to bother rebutting any of it especially when it has so little to do with Y2K. I'll just briefly express my disdain for your verbose post.

-- Guy Daley (, December 11, 1999.

About time someone woke up and smelled the roses. They stink in the US by the way.

For more info on the Fed follow the links in my replies to the following message.

Unbelievable is putting it mildly.

-- Interested Spectator (, December 11, 1999.


Please provide the web address of your site.

-- Interested Spectator (, December 11, 1999.


Do you and la salsa work together? Atleast you do not write in all caps. OTOH, salsa does not write so much boring prose. Try poetry next time. Or better yet, try Y2K.

BTW, not paying your taxes will land you in jail. You will eventually pay all your taxes and then the pay the penalty. Your choice.


-- Uhhmm... (, December 11, 1999.


Your posts would make more sense if written while sober.

-- Screamin' Demon (, December 11, 1999.

To Guy and uumm,these facts are exactly why y2k is a problem.the problems caused by the computers can be overcome with a lot of hard work and cooperation,but y2k and a corrupt government make for a much worse scenerio. unbelievable,thanks for spreading the truth

-- eric micael (, December 11, 1999.

Unbelievable = Salsa = Troll

Please delete.

-- TM (, December 11, 1999.

I like it!

Figgered something was fishy, when the smiling IRS agent came to my beleaguered furniture refinishing shop and told us that if we did not come up with $2000.00 the IRS was going to padlock our shop and put us out of business. Go figger!

Not a year has gone by that I was not plagued by IRS crap, liens, fines, penalty, interest, etc. etc.etc. They even took $1200.00 out of my bank account after I had paid up. Called the bank, since I had never told anyone about my account, and asked them how the IRS knew about my account. Bank said, "We have to report any interest paid to an individual to the IRS." OH REALLY! $4.00 worth of interest! Never had any money and probably never will! Every time I got a buck ahead (HAR HAR,) some ass bite would send me a tax bill etc. Seems like invasion of privacy to me.

Down with the scum! IMHO!

What does this have to do with Y2K? Maybe nothing, and then maybe the IRS will disappear like a real bad nightmare, because of Y2K. Has anyone ever missed not having a nightmare? Will anyone miss the IRS?

Down with tyranny and up with LIBERTY!

God Bless the IRS with a journey into eternal gone-ness.

-- Mark Hillyard (, December 11, 1999.

Unbelievable, they will laugh at you, at that is exactly the problem.

Who would believe the, "Federal Reserve" is privately held by stockholders from old European bank families like the Warburgs, et al.?

Crazy, right? But that is correct. The truth hurts, and most people want to avoid hurt more than they want the truth. Therefore, nothing in this post will amount to a hill of beans. That's why there is a Federal Reserve with said name, masquerading as a government agency, right under the 250 million noses of America - Congress, Executive, and Judiciary included.

Too bad you cited case law, Unbelievable. Most people don't know what, "never overturned" case law even means. And they don't want to know. They're too busy being too smart to know. But they want to criticize you. Extraordinary, impenetrable idiocy abounds on this planet, and it is propagating exponentially by the minute, like our national debt.

-- paul leblanc (, December 11, 1999.

What this has to do with Y2K, is that it is odd that the only government agency that takes y2k seriously and has been doing fixes for 10 years is social security.

Social security is the means by which the IRS gets its teath into you. The IRS needs to collect money to pay to the Federal Reserve interst which as a private bank is for the benifit of the European Banker Families that own it and most other central banks around the world directly or via control through the IMF and World Bank.

If Social Security goes south, so does the IRS and so does the Federal Reserve. End of Story. So incase Social Secruity begins to flounder expect the military to be ouy to protect the IRS.

-- Interested Spectator (, December 11, 1999.

...and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD."

Don't you love it?

-- robbermorons (hoping@to.rob), December 11, 1999.

First of all, to those of you who admitted you didn't bother to read it all, but then went on to criticize this guy, shame on you! Don't you have anything better to do? you ADMIT you didn't read all of it, then spout off about it? What idiots.

Unbelievable, it all sounds great, but what does the normal person who wants to work do? I mean, as we know, all employers require SS #'s and all those tax forms....

I for one found it very interesting. It would not surprise me one bit if every bit of it is true.

-- (, December 11, 1999.

Its OT

please delete.

-- plonk! (, December 11, 1999.

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-- 8 (, December 11, 1999.

Thanks unbelievable!

It's amazing how many people don't know these things, and then when they find out about them, DON'T CARE.

It's so easy for TPTB to run things with our dim-witted populace.

By the way, this is very much ON TOPIC.

-- Gregg (, December 11, 1999.


It is sometimes difficult to believe that so many tax protesters can just stumble upon a thread such as this one. Do you folks all work for this group? Or are you all the same poster?

Are you posting from a jail cell, or have you even put into practice these wild claims? Can you cite cases and case law where your group has actually benefited a person applying your social philosophy? Are you a not-for-profit organization? If so, are you registered as such with the IRS? If you are an NFP, what is your ratio of revenue to adminstrative costs?

The moderators will not delete this post, it is too far down on the page; and they seem to believe that any post implying existance of a government conspiracy, Bilderburgers, illuminati, christian identity, chemtrails, NWO, ad infinitum is Y2K. I think Y2K will wipe tricksters and scam artists like you from the face of this great nation.


-- Uhhmm... (, December 11, 1999.

great nation ? I wonder...

-- ss (, December 12, 1999.

It is really unbelievable how many GI's on this Forum are mere SHEEPLE" when it comes to Government fraud!!!

-- unbelievable (, December 12, 1999.

Here, Here.

They are the reall pollies and trolls.

There are 3 types of people:

Those that make things happen. Those that watch them happen. Those that don't even know they happened.

99.9% of America are in the last category. Lemmings walking over cliffs who critisize without even taking the time to read the info posted or linked to in this thread. Guess the even though the New World proved the flat eathers wrong, the world never got rid of the flat earth mentality. They must have all moved here from the old world.

-- Interested Spectator (, December 12, 1999.

I think the subject is very much ON Topic. It speaks to the motivation and incentives of entities that are controlling the fate of the country.

If Y2K has taught us anything, it should be to *question* and not just *accept* the "facts" as they are spun in our direction.

-- Sara Nealy (, December 12, 1999.


Could you or the the origianl avatar who posted this thread answer my questions noted above?

I might point out to others reading this thread a warning. Each of you should be very carefull before sending money to a cause you stumble across on the web. Many requests are simply scams seeking to separate you from your cash. But, others might seek to market or otherwise exploit any info you might send. Remember, your e-mail address, bank account number and/or credit card number are quite as valuable to others as they are to you.

Sending money to a cause you hear about on the WWW is like sending money to an address you might read on the toilet wall in the bus station lounge. In other words, you might want to count to ten before you dial that number. At least thoroughly investigate each source before even corresponding through e-mail. Do not assume that other posters who validate a particular cause are objective bystanders. Like any other references you receive from a possible con-artist, they may be part of the scam or be paid contibutors. Also, a 1-800 number is not an endorsement by the Phone company - lots of con-artists start out with such a number.

Disclaimer: The The 'Save-A-Patriot Fellowship' could be just what this country needs. On the other hand, it might not be. Your mileage may vary.


-- Uhhmm... (, December 12, 1999.


If you'd like to find out more about the organization I suggest you check out:


and read the information posted there.

You'll quickly see the depth of the research eliminates these people as con artists trying to get a few bucks from the public.

And if you're open minded you'll learn about the IRS and tax code things you thought could not happen in America. For even more eyeopening information based on congressional records and dilegent efforts of past President's and congressmen to get America free from the clutches of the European Banker Families follow the links I have posted in this message.

-- Interested Spectator (, December 12, 1999.


Ref: your comment:

" very carefull before sending money to a cause you stumble across on the web. Many requests are simply scams seeking to separate you from your cash."

This sounds amazingly similar to THE big distraction tactic that certain government and corporate authorities utilize when anything concerning Y2K is mentioned: "Watch out for the cockroaches! They are just trying to get your money! Scam! Scam!"

The issue I brought up has nothing to do with sending $$ to anyone. unbelievable's post is valuable because it postulates the fact that there is a critical mass of people in this country who hold serious misconceptions about how our system really operates.

Some of these misconceptions have a direct bearing on Y2K; for example, the misconception that the Federal Reserve is operating, in the public interest, as a government agency. In fact, they are not a government agency, and this misconception leads many to feel protected by the proclamations and maneuvers of the Federal Reserve. Hence, they face Y2K with their money sitting, at great risk, in the stock market, in banks, etc.

FYI - I am not writing this from jail. I *am* spending a lot of time today doing laundry and dishes, however, and that FEELS like jail to me.

-- Sara Nealy (, December 12, 1999.


You folks have not yet answered any of my earlier questions? How about this quote from my earlier post?

Do not assume that other posters who validate a particular cause are objective bystanders. Like any other references you receive from a possible con-artist, they may be part of the scam or be paid contibutors.


-- Uhhmm... (, December 12, 1999.


If you are not doing your chores from jail, then may I presume you paid your taxes?


-- Uhhmm... (, December 12, 1999.

Umhhh, perhaps you weren't lurking back a few weeks ago when there was a commotion about CSPAN not taping the 2nd syposium on illegal taxation. The first was July 1-2, in which CSPAN managed to tape day two. It turned out to be the most requested video in the history of CSPAN, and that's at $30 per hour charge. The second symposium occurred a few weeks ago.

Get yourself educated. You just might like the feeling of being aware!

-- OR (, December 13, 1999.

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