Does anyone know about using airguns for security? I know they are no substitute for a real gun, but due to my location that is probably the best I can do. However, my thinking is that they look like real guns to people who do not know guns, and presumably would make a loud enough sound that they would deter those same people. Regarding stopping power, Im sure an airgun pellet would not stop a determined assailant, but is there a significant chance it would stop a wimpy one?

Also, any recommendations on certain types? Thanks in advance for any advice.

-- Observer (abso@camp.com), December 08, 1999

Answers

Eh, you gotta be kidding, right?

-- yada (yada@yada.com), December 08, 1999.

My Dear good man.

Your noise verus effectiveness will be well served with a cross bow.... Guarenteed to ruin their day with but a wisper.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Shakey (in_a_bunker@forty.feet), December 08, 1999.

From what you say, you must be in Great Britan or someplace just as restrictive. If you are in England, you will need a Firearms Authorization from the police if the Airgun's powerplant produces 12 foot pounds energy or more. If you keep it under that level, there are less restrictions.

As to stopping power, I would rate an airgun at twice the power of a firearm, due to pellet design. in fact, in Mexico where guns are restricted, they make a wicked hybrid which uses a .177 pellet propelled by a .22 BLANK cartridge. The results are not pretty. Not much left of pegeons hit with one!

-- K. Stevens (kstevens@ It's ALL going away in January.com), December 08, 1999.

A pellet gun is a good idea for small game but i would never try to defend myself with one. Gamo makes a good one pump pellet gun the 177 at 1000fps is a good choice for about $130.00. I think the Gamo 22 travels a bit slower and is less acurate but has more knock down power.

-- (hunkered@down.net), December 08, 1999.

Sports Authority, scope included

-- (hunkered@down.net), December 08, 1999.

TWICE THE POWER OF A FIREARM, DUE TO PELLET DESIGN

Oh please, that is the biggest load of hogwash I have ever heard. It is all about the relationship of mass, energy, and velocity, you know, balistics. The bigger the mass and energy, the greater the impact. Of course target density and a multitude of other considerations must be factored in.

Yes air guns can cause severe injuries and even death, but attempting to compare air guns to centerfire rifles of any caliber is ludricrous.

In saying this, I must however remind everyone that even airguns in the hands of a skilled user can cause serious injury. In an historical context, early airguns were far more deadly and accurate than their powder counterparts.

-- Iglow Inthedark (u235_36@yahoo.com), December 08, 1999.

egad. I own a Beeman Crow magnum which is a beast of an airgun that shoots .25 at over 1,000 fps and I wouldn't even consider using it to stop a large rabid dog much less a human being.

As for Mexicans using .22 blanks to power a .177, I would just like to point out that if you are using a propellent or an explosive, it ain't an airgun no more is it? I'm sure I could get more milage out of my Beeman or old Benjamin if I filled the barrel half full of black powder. whew....

As for early airguns, they were .50 caliber or bigger, had bullets that weighed more than a modern .308 and had a pressure reservoir that took severval minutes on a large pump machine to pressurize.

As for pellet design, one word, wadcutter. duh

Shakey has it right, if you don't want something that goes bang, and want something stiffer than pepper spray, go with a crossbow, easy to shoot, very little training required in comparison with a longbow.

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), December 08, 1999.

I have two airguns. One is a Mossberg Model 590 Tactical shotgun, the other is a Ruger P90T .45 . Both of them shoot things that fly through the *AIR* very, very quickly.

-- C. Hill (pinionsmachine@hotmail.com), December 08, 1999.

Consider this - most War Between the States (better known, incorrectly, as the Civil War) firearms threw a lead projectile at approximately 600-700 fps (which is why many limbs were sawn off - bones broke, but the bullet remained). If you could get a .22 or .25 caliber airgun, became an expert shot, then shot only through the eyeball, yeah, it would make an ok defensive weapon. In reality, unless the aggressor were a total idiot (many are), then don't try and bluff. Also, don't point it unless you're willing to shoot.

-- James (jpeet@u.washington.edu), December 08, 1999.

You referring to the War of Northern Aggression?

-- Johnny Reb (deep@south.com), December 08, 1999.

I've been shooting air rifles for over 30 years.

They are totally unsuitable for self-defense. Also, the sound of an air rifle would never be mistaken for a conventional firearm.

-- Not Whistlin' Dixie (not_whistlin_dixie@yahoo.com), December 08, 1999.

Airguns for security? No. Not even as a "sniper rifle", unless you have access to one of the types used during the Napoleonic Wars.

Airguns as a discreet way to take small game or dispose of small pests? Yes! I have used Benjamin and Sheridan brands with total success. Sheridan uses proprietary ammunition, but they sure are sweet little shooters.

If you cannot obtain even a .22LR, seriously consider a crossbow.If you are dubious, rent a few movies like the Wild Geese and the Osterman Weekend. The use of crossbows portrayed is accurate if a little dramatic. The bolts used in The Wild Geese are real,but actually used for injections of tranquilizers for large game like Rhino and Elephants. There is even a version that uses CO2 to propell a bolt. If you are prohibited even these, look into spring guns and other improvised weapons. The Phillipino insurgents used 12 gauge shotguns made from pipe with excellent success during WWII. You may have read about the single-shot .45 "Liberator" pistol that was used by such groups as the Maquis in WWII to obtain finely machined German weapons.

-- chairborne commando (what-me-worry@armageddon.com), December 08, 1999.

Air guns are great for getting the neighbor's cat off your lawn from what I hear; never heard of any other use.

-- Hokie (nn@va.com), December 08, 1999.

Those slow moving bullets in the war to colonize the South, weighted what 500 grains? And a pellet gun 30-40. Get a hatchet or spray paint if you can't get a gun. Pointing what looks like a gun at someone will get you killed real quick.

-- goldbug (goldbug@mint.com), December 08, 1999.

Shakey is right. A crossbow is the way to go. During WW2, the Nazis so feared the deadly Flemish crossbows that they threatened mass reprisals if any of their soldiers were killed by one. A really powerful crossbow can easily send a single bolt through three or four men - stack 'em up like pancakes - and it's effective at well over 100 yards. No current govt. issue kevlar vest will protect you against one.

Same is true of a good compound hunting bow, and I sure wouldn't want to be hit by any of the really bad arrow or bolt heads that are available on today's market. Believe me, I'd take my chances with a gunshot instead.

-- elskon (elskon@bigfoot.com), December 08, 1999.

I own several air guns and use them for keeping my firearm skill honed, particularly during the winter. (They can be used indoors if you are careful in how you set up the "range".)

I would never use one for self defense. Yes a shot thru the eye would stop anyone but could you reliably do that given all the adrenalin flowing? I doubt it.

If a crossbow is not an option consider a slingshot and ball- bearings. A little practice and I wouldn't want to be on the recieving end.

-- LM (latemarch@usa.net), December 08, 1999.

I would rather have a can of oven cleaner from the $1 store! The stuff sprays 6 feet and is the nastiest fumes I have ever inhaled. Sure to blind anyone you spray in the face. Get creative. Pointing a piss ant pellet pistol at someone will get you killed.

-- Bill (y2khippo@yahoo.com), December 08, 1999.

OK, I'm sold. What is the best crossbow and where can I buy 2?

-- Zygote (zygote1@zygote1.zygote1), December 08, 1999.

The oven cleaner is a good idea, but a bit short on range. Good to keep handy but not to carry to the upstairs window.

Crossbow is a fine weapon to 40 yards or so. Beyond that the trajectory makes it difficult shoot because the arrow drops below the forearm of the bow and aiming becomes a guessing game.

Standard compound bow ... if you have time to learn it is a good idea. Better still a recurve of about 40 pounds, even a twenty five pounder would be VASTLY superior to an air rifle for the purpose you mention. A bow is quiker to reload than a crossbow, a broadhead, properly sharpened, and shot from a 40 pound recurve will shoot thru two people... I have seen two deer killed with ONE arrow by mistake.

BUT my personal choice for quiet, deadly, and convienent is a sling shot. Wallmart has good frames and you can beef them up with surgical rubber tubing from the scuba store. As they come from the store they are fine for beginners and will do the job. There is a trick that few know. Go to the hardware and get a piece of 3/8 inch steel or brass stock. Cut it into 3/8 by 3/8 cubes and take a file to the corners to ensure they are sharp... Save those for serious work on larger targets. Get a round ball mould for .45 or .40 and use that for small game.

FORGET DEFENDING ANYTHING WITH AN AIR RIFLE.

-- (...@.......), December 08, 1999.

Would you like to have WASP sprayed in your face? It will shoot 20 feet.

-- Lee Barber (LeeeeeeB@webtv.net), December 08, 1999.

Bear spray is dandy. A big can will set your back $20 or so and you can hit a target across a big room with high potency pepper spray. A baseball bat will finish off the job.

-- ishman (eeoaa@big.stk), December 09, 1999.

Assuming that you're in the UK, there's an excellent site on firearms (including licensing information) here. You should be able to get your hands on an unlicensed blank firing replica which will look and sound real enough.

If you want some real protection, try Quicks the archery people. You'll want a crossbow, if for no other reason than you can keep it strung for long periods. You'll also want to get some broadheads to put on the bolts rather than the standard pointy field piles. Quicks are a bit hesitant about selling them within the UK because they had a problem with them being used for poaching some years back. You may need to convince them that you want them for something "innocent".

This country sucks. :(

-- Servant (public_service@yahoo.com), December 09, 1999.

How about a can of WD-40 and a lighter?

-- Can you say (Flame@Thrower.Com), December 09, 1999.

So what kind of rating would a bow need to be a serious defensive weapon?

Shuggy.

-- Shuggy (shimei123@yahoo.co.uk), December 09, 1999.

IMHO, a 40lb. recurve bow is the minimum - I prefer a weighted cam compound, but they cost a lot more. In any case, you'll need better than target arrow heads. Unfortunately, a bow takes considerable practice to use one effectively, but it's much faster than a crossbow.

A crossbow points like a rifle so it's more natural to shooters. It can even be scoped, and if you use high mounts, can sight it to 100 yds. In a crossbow, power is where it's at, IMHO, so choose one that fires a bolt at 250 - 300 fps. Crossbows are hard work to cock, so a good cocking device is a must. Again, choose good hunting heads like Muzzy, Wasp or NAP - and man, if you can shoot, you should only need one per target. Those heads are devastating!

I can use neither now, due to my arthritis (wistful sigh).

Though there are many other excellent suppliers, a good place to start for info and product is Cabela's at 800-237-4444. They carry many good brands.

-- elskon (elskon@bigfoot.com), December 09, 1999.

Thanks for the advice, Elskon.

Shuggy.

-- Shuggy (shimei123@yahoo.co.uk), December 10, 1999.

Right Shuggy, here is Cabela's URL. You can even look at their goodies on line before you call.

http://www.cabelas.com/

-- elskon (elskon@bigfoot.com), December 10, 1999.

Further to elskon's point - remember that releasing a crossbow is just squeezing a trigger. Squeeze, twang. Drawing and releasing a bow is a big extended physical action, with plenty of time for hesitation and second thoughts.

I've been shooting recurve and longbow for years, and I still wouldn't trust myself to do it instinctively enough, even if I was in a situation where I was protecting my family. If we're talking Y2K looters here, remember that they aren't going to look like hardened criminals. They'll look just like your neighbours, or worse, your neighbour's children.

I'd get a weapon, but I'd also go out and try and avoid the situation altogether by (gasp) talking to people, maybe even sharing with them.

-- Servant (public_service@yahoo.com), December 10, 1999.

Servant: If the people you go out to talk to have looting on their mind, you peace gesture won't work and you won't live long.

If Y2k goes down really badly, you need to set a perimeter with signs that read something like, "TRESPASSERS WILL BE SHOT ON SIGHT." And you have to make any potential troublemaker believe it, or you will eventually have to kill someone.

If you ever start sharing with those outside your group (and don't kid yourself, EVERY starving person will eventually become a looter), tomorrow they will be back for more, and more the day after - more and more and more . . . . so where do you stop? You won't be able to until you are out of supplies yourself. Survival for you and your family calls for tough decisions. This isn't the movies.

Word will spread if you are a soft touch, and eventually someone will try to take what you have. You'll have to fight them then anyway. Better to nip a potential conflict in the bud by making yourself appear too dangerous to tackle.

-- elskon (elskon@bigfoot.com), December 10, 1999.

.........HERE, HERE!

-- gary l tarrant... (theglt10940@netzero.net), August 30, 2004.