posted December 06, 1999 11:45 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Lately, I've been trying to talk to as many people as possible about the whole y2k/martial law/NWO situation, and the other day, I got a bit of a surprise: some of the other guys from my platoon were talking about it, and I wasn't even the one who started it. They hate Klinton as much as any of us. We talked for a while, and they told me that if it does happen, they are on the side of the patriots. Not only that, but I learned that approx. half of my platoon feels this way. I think that we're a pretty good representation of the rest of the corps in most ways, so if the same holds true here, then Billy Boy is in for a surprise. Many of us will be on leave during New Year's; I asked, and of the people I talked to, if there's a recall, and TSHTF, they won't come back. We hate the Klintons and their goons AT LEAST as much as civilians, probably more so because every time Billy decides to help this or that no-name country, WE'RE the ones with our @sses in the line of fire. And for what? Not to defend the Constitution, which is what we swore to do, but to help secure Billy's power base. He constantly calls on us to "protect democracy" (read: die), yet disrespects us every chance he gets. His contempt for the military is legendary; I don't think the US has ever had a President as anti-military as this one. I know a lot of good people that won't reenlist because of how the military has gotten under his (mis)management. BTW, one of the guys I was talking to, who would fight against NWO, who loves this country more than most people, isn't even a citizen! Does this answer anyone's questions about what the military will do? Even a few of the questions I know you all have?

------------------ "Nemo me impune lacessit"

It's not paranoia if they really ARE out to get you.

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Formerly Known as Shane Tree Squirrel posted December 07, 1999 12:10 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kuchek,

I am so glad to hear that from someone in the Corps. My father retired from the Corps, under Klinton. I wanted to enlist so bad. You would think a GySgt USMC would be proud of his son's wants to enlist. My father basically said he would disown me if I went in under Klinton. Not that he didn't want me to join the Corps, but because he said it was so messed up now from the days of earlier presidents thanks to Klinton. What is your MOS? My father was HMX, last unit he was in was HMX-221 New River MCAS I believe, Bulldogs the unit was called. I wanted to go in as EOD or WTB, still would if things would change. Anyway I hope if any at all forces it's the Corps and the Army that come to the aid of fellow Patriots. It would be nice to think that one would only join the service, because they were Patriots, but I know that is not the case. Thanks for the news, the good stuff helps a lot.

Shane

------------------ When they come for my guns, they can have them, bullets first

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Hollow point Tree Squirrel posted December 07, 1999 12:45 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The idiot Clinton is the reason I'm putting off actually joining the Army until I graduate high school. That way, I'm only serving under him for a few months, and I'll be in boot camp during most of his last days in office anyway. The man's stupidity knows no bounds.

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BOOKWORM Tree Squirrel posted December 07, 1999 01:14 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Long ago in another incarnation, I was a full-time National Guard Nike missile tech. We used to laugh that we got state trooper pay but were slightly better armed. A 20KT nuke makes bigger holes than 00 buck.

Since it is considered impolite for state employes to use nuclear weapons, there was always a code that would have to come down the chain of command transfering our unit from state national guard to regular army before we could do anything drastic.

Senario:

The phone rings at the Armory 'B' Company,?? Battalion Texas National Guard. The full time AST(Adminstration & Supply Technician) " He is the company First Sargent on drill weekends." answers the phone,"B company"

Voice on other end, "This is NCA (National Command Authority) activate plan 'Wet Cigar'"

AST goes to file cabinet, pulls out folder. "Wet Cigar" turns out to be the current code for Federalizing his unit.

AST goes back to phone, "Does this mean we are tranfering from Gov. Bush's control to President Clinton?"

Voice on phone "Yes"

AST, "Who is this?"

Voice on phone, "This is Mr. Smith, your new regional FEMA Administration Coordinating Director."

AST, "Sir, I think you have a wrong number," CLICK

Any unit that has been in combat and has suffered 30% casualties, how long did it take to put it back together? If TSHTF, I think 30% is a good bet to stand down. Sure they might get some wild indoctrinated 19 year olds, but where will the 30 year old leading sargents be? Home with their wives?, up in hills? You can't do much with 19 year old privates and 23 year old 2nd lieutenants.

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Snakebite Tree Squirrel posted December 07, 1999 02:26 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Thank you, kuchek, for serving your country and remaining faithful to our Constitution. That is good news to hear. I served under Carter, and although he was a liberal idiot who neglected our armed forces, at least he was somewhat honorable. I can't imagine what it would be like to serve under Klinton. Keep the the fire burning. *Salute*

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PvtRyan Ground Squirrel posted December 07, 1999 10:37 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I can remember a time when it was actually honorable to be considered a Patriot. It sounds as though the sheeple now view us as some type of enemy....if the US Troops leave their posts and disobey unlawful orders then they are defending life and liberty against a common foe. In this case the foe is our own unlawful govt. Those guys are TRUE Patriots and I salute you for having the B*lls to do whats right......Semper Fi baby !!!!!

------------------ .....If we do that, then maybe we all earn the right to go home.......

-- Ed (ed@lizzardranch.com), December 07, 1999

Answers

Think about some of the ideas in this post. Those who care about patriotism and the Consitution cashed out or didn't join. This was always the true backbone of the military. What's left is political bootlickers and gender new frontiers types. So those with the big guns and the security of the United States. I joined at the end of Carter administration and went to boot camp with kids who where there because the judge gave them a choice. Lived through the turn-around under Reagan, and now see the buffoon in cheap selling us out.

We are in trouble when we don't know who the real "enemies" could be, China and Russia. I hope there are enough patriots in the military to protect us.

-- Squid (Itsdark@down.here), December 07, 1999.

Yes, many/most of the military don't like/detest Clinton. Regardless, they will follow his orders. They have sworn an oath and he is their commander in chief.

The words above would land said "patriot" in the brig facing court martial or worse...if we were on a war footing.

It would take some mighty convincing evidence to make every rank and file military person to "turn" on their orders. If this is as well planned as you say, then in all likely hood there will be an excellent reason for their actions. Remember, most of the sheeple will support the big guy too in such a scenario.

-- Ynott (Ynott@incorruptible.com), December 07, 1999.

Ynott, They've sworn an oath all right. BTW, I did too, a decade ago. The following is the oath taken by all personnel inducted into the armed forces of the United States, as found in the US Code, Section 502.

"I, _NAME HERE_, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

Notice the FIRST thing in the oath. "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic" How can you obey the orders of the President when those orders conflict with this phrase? Since you probably never sacrificed any time, blood, sweat, family, or tears supporting this country by joining the service I'll explain it to you.

There are such things as "Lawful" and "Unlawful" Orders. Now you are correct in that the military will follow Lawful orders, immediately and to the letter. But when a clearly Unlawful order is given, the service member can do three things: #1)Follow it blindly, and probably be prosecuted. Remember 1946 Nuremburg? "I was just following orders" is not a reliable defense. or #2)Follow it, then file a complaint with the chain-of-command and probably be prosecuted. You're no better off legally here than #1.

Or #3)Refuse to carry out the order and probably be prosecuted anyway.

#3 is the tricky one. It's clearly correct to refuse to commit a murder, but it's still disobeying orders and you'll probably be prosecuted anyway. But at least here, the jury will see that you tried to do the right thing. Six months in the brig or stockade and a dishonorable discharge is better than life in Leavenworth.

-- Powder (powder@keg.com), December 07, 1999.

Good evening all. I enlisted after high school, at the age of 17, in 1966. Volunteered for infantry and airborne and Vietnam; the whole shebang. I was willing to follow orders to the max. In 1969, when I was still 20, I was a SSG, with more than two years experience, leading 18 and 19 year old LRP/Rangers on missions in the HoBo Woods. I had learned to question orders, but those boys I was leading would do whatever I ordered them to do. Boy soldiers are and always will be boy soldiers. Don't believe for a second that many will refuse to obey their orders proudly when told to come after YOU. The wiser professional NCOs and platoon and company grade officers are gone, retired or forced out. They have been replaced by political animals who will tell those boys it is their duty to come after you. Terrible, sad times are before us, Y2K or no.

Airborne all the way, Rangers lead the way.

Michael

-- Michael Frazier (mfrazier@pacific.net), December 07, 1999.

There are still some patriots and believers in the Constitution still in the military. Let's hope it doesn't come to a revolt against illegal orders. That would cause a societal rift unrivaled since the (un)Civil War.

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), December 08, 1999.

You are correct in that we have a "boy army"...."boy military" in fact. There is a reason that the military chooses "boys"...MEN wouldn't do the #@$$%# that they ask the "boys" to do! A MAN would question more and stand up for himself more and say NO more.

That is why I agree with the previous writer that the army/military would indeed follow orders. Boys, generally do.

-- Ynott (Ynott@incorruptible.com), December 08, 1999.

I do agree with you on that, we have a gangsta/boy army. I failed to take into account the caliber of the minds involved here. I admit that I myself failed to realize the full implications of my oath until after I got out. I followed all my orders too, but I never got any unlawful orders either. I would not have followed an order to commit a murder, or any other immoral act. That doesn't mean I wouldn't have killed or done whatever for genuine military purposes.

-- Powder (powder@keg.com), December 08, 1999.

And I agree with YOU, Powder! Most of us wouldn't do today what we would have done at 18. Also the 18 year olds today are not the same as they were when we were young. Some branches of the military are having so much trouble recruiting that they are waiving the mandatory High School degree/equivalency and saying they will "educate" them when they are inducted...scarey...very....

-- Ynott (Ynott@incorruptible.com), December 08, 1999.