greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

For the last three hours (Sun Dec 5, 9:00am-12noon and they are still going) I have been watching planes lay line after line of contrails in the sky above Northern Virginia/Washington, DC.

This is a bit fishy when you see sets of four or five lines side-by-side going in the same direction for the same distance. Then you will notice the dissipation into the curly/wavy clouds, then finally it dissolves into a white haze covering the sky. Honestly, my son thought they were cirrus clouds (like the unsuspecting public) but I knew because I watched it dissipate.

So come on politicians, doesn't this concern you in the least?!!!!! What is in the air people?

-- tt (cuddluppy@nowhere.com), December 05, 1999


OH AND ELI (i saw that you called roland an idiot) JUST IN CASE YOU DON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A NORMAL DAY OF COMMERCIAL FLIGHTS AND TODAY. I DO. I WATCH THE SKIES ALOT AND HAVE SEEN HOW SHORT THE CONTRAIL IS FOR A COMMERCIAL JET (if at all) AND HOW QUICKLY THEY DISSIPATE. THESE STAY AND STAY AND STAY. AND THEY SPREAD OUT, CAUSING THE HAZE. plus the planes don't seem to fly as high. one day i saw three different types of planes laying the contrails-- flying relatively close to one another.

-- tt (cuddluppy@yahoo.com), December 05, 1999.


If you want answers to your misconceptions, read this. However, if you wish to continue being sucked into this forum's contrail/chemtrail hype, then don't read this...

http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/swallowtail/619/linesinsk y.html

-- CD (not@here.com), December 05, 1999.

A professor once told a psych class that I took that in general, people are stupid--now I have no doubt at all that he was right.

-- Eli K. (Elk@fnet.com), December 05, 1999.

tt, don't worry about the scoffers. There's no time left to entertain the polly trolls. Don't know what the chemtrails are, but have seen it and know it's not normal. Taking our pictures to get developed today. Very very (too) soon now we'll see The Great Unravelling. As we've said before, if the planes are STILL flying during oil / fuel shortages, we'll be even more sure their mission is fishy.

Certain things one has to see and compare to believe. If Eli does not believe it, fine. He's a pilot? Is s/he a new person who just happens to come here to debunk the chemtrails? We are interested in any explanations and especially value the opinions of pilots.

The thing is, even tho we are not pilots and know nothing about aircraft, we do know that what we've seen in the blue sky here is NOT normal.

For now it has to take the back burner in our investigative pursuits because we're, uh, still scrambling to live life fully before IT CHANGES. Deadline approaching ...

Stay safe, tt, take pictures, and call everybody you know and ask them to look out their windows.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 05, 1999.

FYI--Ashton & Leska--No I am not new to this forum--I am not a TEOTWAWKI doomer, however, I am realistic in that we could face some serious disruptions in the coming year and I have prepared for this. The contrails you seem to think are sinister have existed all your lives--why weren't you screaming about them five years ago? I have been in complex aircraft for 2/3 of my life and am only stating my opinion contrasted with my aviation experience= I have seen nothing out of the ordinary in the sky.

-- Eli K. (Elk@fnet.com), December 05, 1999.

I saw the trails over D.C./Northern Virginia today, also. I was a skeptic until today. Just like tt/cuddluppy says, they were parallel lines of the same length.

-- nobody (nobody@nowhere.com), December 05, 1999.

Thanks for answering, Eli. Leska grew up in Tucson, AZ, where Davis Monthan Air Force base is, and the skies are normally clear and blue. 24 years of sky-watching, because of frequently plane crashes and constant buzzing over U of A, and NEVER NEVER saw anything like current chemtrails.

Eli, what part of the country are you in?

When you see them, please take photos and try to get to the root of their composition.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 05, 1999.

I am in the DFW area.

-- Eli K. (Elk@fnet.com), December 05, 1999.

Eli, there's other people in that area on this Forum. You'd be in good company at a Yourdynamite potluck! Not much time left for that, though.

If a thread starts about chemtrails there, and regular posters type that they are seeing the expanding low flumy streaks in the sky, please be willing to look out your window.

This is something nobody *should* believe until they see it for themselves. It is just too weird.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 05, 1999.

A & L--recently when people on this forum in this area posted chemtrail sightings I did have a look. All I saw were Contrails from commercial aircraft. 727, L-1011, 747, DC-10 aircraft for the most part

-- Eli K. (Elk@fnet.com), December 05, 1999.

Thank you, Eli. With that in mind, if we have time, we will track down a couple pilots we used to know and ask them if they will investigate / look in our area.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 05, 1999.

I think all politicians should be spayed.

-- A (A@AisA.com), December 05, 1999.

RE: the question of "haze or cloudcover forming from the emissions of jetliners: we should probably distinguish this topic from the topic of "spraying" of biological/bactieral agents on the populace, for whatever effect:

There was an a study performed about 1-2 years ago (maybe longer now) off the coast of southern California, which was designed to test the proposition that the increase in commercial jet traffic was affecting the climactic conditions particularly in the LA area, as I recdall. The test involved the use of military or commericial jets which were flown offshore in continous laps for the course of a morning, until their emissions/contrails accumulated into a cover. The study, which I belive was reported in SCIENCE or NATURE, probably 1997 but maybe last year, then reported that the resulting cloudcover continued to expand into a bona-fide, though man-made cloud-bank, which proceeded to drift in over the copastal areas and as any other fog or cloudover would, brought on shadey afternoons and much cooler temperatures.

Some whiz might be able to find a link to such an article. I presume it was in SCIENCE.

The point for this discussion would be that haze being triggered from an abundance of contrails is NOT NECESSARILY an indicator of "spraying" -- but it would hardly rule it out either. There could be any number of things affecting the ease with which these contrails/chemtrails are forming a "haze", including reduced geomagnetic field, increased solar radiation; simple pollution, etc.

I am not a chemtrial sceptic. I've seen the horseshit in action, and as an asthmatic, suffered especially from its effects -- as have some of my friends. It's just a point worthy of considertion.


-- SH (squirrel@huntr.com), December 05, 1999.

Squirrel Hunter,

Within the last six months, Aviation Week and Space Technology ran an article on that experiment. It showed satellite photos of the test aircraft's contrails being formed off the coast of California and then tracked the contrail turning into cloud cover over central CA. no ground station photos of the contrails were included however.

WW, a contrail watcher since 1987 when they were merely the calling card of "secret mystery" aircraft

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), December 05, 1999.

It seems that Eli considers himself an expert and what ordinary people observe is not important. I have not seen any unusual contrails, but I beleive that many others have seen them. Don't bother responding to Eli.

-- Dave (dannco@hotmail.com), December 05, 1999.

OK NON BELIEVERS -- EXPLAIN THIS: let's just say that we have seen the same atmospheric conditions (temp, approx wind) for days. and typically many commercial airlines fly the same schedules every day, right? so why don't i see contrails and their fun little patterns every day (at least when the temp and atmospheric conditions are similar)???!!!!!

we are not dupes. sure contrails have existed since the beginning of time but not this many and not in such pretty arrangements.

Eli you seem like a real fun guy. It must be tough to find hats that fit that huge ego of yours.

-- tt (cuddluppy@nowhere.com), December 05, 1999.

OK NON BELIEVERS -- EXPLAIN THIS: let's just say that we have seen the same atmospheric conditions (temp, approx wind) for days. and typically many commercial airlines fly the same schedules every day, right? so why don't i see contrails and their fun little patterns every day (at least when the temp and atmospheric conditions are similar)???!!!!!

we are not dupes. sure contrails have existed since the beginning of time but not this many and not in such pretty arrangements.

Eli you seem like a real fun guy. It must be tough to find hats that fit that huge ego of yours.

-- tt (cuddluppy@nowhere.com), December 05, 1999.

OK, tt, so y'all aren't dupes. Thanks for clarifying that. Now, tell me, how can you be so sure that the atmospheric conditions "temp, approx wind" (don't forget relative humidity, though) at the altitude the planes are flying at has remained constant? Isn't it possible that the humidity was higher on the days the contrails didn't dissipate?

Also, contrails have NOT existed since the beginning of time. Even the earliest "birds/reptiles--pteradactyls" hadn't evolved at the beginning of time, but if they had, I doubt they had contrails following them about...

ALK--another non-believer

-- Al K. Lloyd (all@ready.now), December 05, 1999.

tt---no ego here--I have the background to explain what it is you think you see--aerospace and meteorology --what credentials do you possess?

-- Eli K. (Elk@fnet.com), December 05, 1999.

Now, riddle me this: why are the contrails appearing exactly on schedule from west to east?

If they are man-made - and they have the specific appearance of a liquid being sprayed/discharged in rigid east-west/north south parrallel patterns with specific start-stop points - start/stop points NOT weather related - then you have received the same group over AL, NW GA, Atlanta, then over NC/SC a few days later, ..... and over TX before that.

Sorry, "weather" and "normal traffic" does not cause contrail patterns crossing like these.....cloud seeding could - but why?

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), December 05, 1999.

Okay, Mr. Al K Lloyd, here is what you stated:

OK, tt, so y'all aren't dupes. Thanks for clarifying that. Now, tell me, how can you be so sure that the atmospheric conditions "temp, approx wind" (don't forget relative humidity, though) at the altitude the planes are flying at has remained constant? Isn't it possible that the humidity was higher on the days the contrails didn't dissipate?

Now answer the following question. What if you are seeing normal dissipating contrails above those that aren't at the very same time on the very same day? Explain that, considering you have to have a atmospheric conditions of approx. minus 50 degrees centrigrade and high humidity to maintain formation of those contrails.

-- OR (orwelliator@biosys.net), December 06, 1999.

disciplined objectivity?

Or -- undisciplined subjectivity?

Its one or the other! It is not easy!

-- d----- (dciinc@aol.com), December 06, 1999.

To tt/cuddluppy:

I live in DC and saw the same contrails you speak of here and can definitely tell you that you don't know what you're talking about.

Yeah, I'm a polly and the idiots here call me a troll, but you're still full of it on this.

-- Buddy in DC (buddydc@go.com), December 06, 1999.

He's a polly with a bug-out plan so he's..... not really a polly. He's more like..... a positive doomer.

-- lisa (lisa@work.now), December 06, 1999.

Here's the distinction between contrails and chemtrails.

Normal jet contrails come from the ENGINES on the wings. They are double lines, pencil thin, and "follow" the jet across the sky. Then they go away within a minute or two. They can be longer and thicker, but the point is they dissipate and they come from engines when the hot air collides with the frigid air at high altitudes.

CHEMTRAILS come from cannisters or foggers attached to the TAILS of the craft and spray ONE huge, thick, dense trail that's about 200% larger than a typical contrail. There is often a 'shadow' effect to the streak that gives an oily appearance. The jets with the cannisters attached have been both photographed and videotaped WHILE spraying.

There are also REGULAR JETS in flight at the same time giving off their normal contrails (video available, so there are two entirely different "trails events" happening.

People are NOT tripping over regular jet contrails. They are alarmed by the chem spraying and the facts that questions about them are being dismissed categorically as nothing unusual, ignored or rerouted, and that hospitals in record numbers are hard pressed to cope with the increase in flu LIKE viral infections, upper respitory problems (call your local hospitals and ASK, it's not all that difficult)...the chemtrails are in a "formation" which is a military earmark, yet government officials fail to address the issue at all.

The concern is that no one knows what chemical or agent is being released, WHY it is being released, whether the residual effects are harmful, toxic, fatal to crops, animals and people...and with the known governmental history of abuses of our rights and freedoms, absolutely people are going to expect the worst when they ask elected officials and get dismissed.

Then they want to knowWHY they're being dismissed, who gives them the right to dismiss these issues, and the chain of command starts climbing and suddenly the people asking questions are tagged as alarmists, paranoid, conspiracy theorists, espousing propaganda and creating another fringe cult to draw in others who cannot think for themselves.

Meanwhile those who know nothing at all and who don't want to know, as well as those who are too dense to know that there IS something to know enjoy a few hours of name calling and ridiculing and rejecting things they obviously have no real proof of either way.

People just want to know WHAT IS IS, WHO IS DOING IT, WHY THEY ARE DOING IT, AND WHAT EFFECTS IT WILL HAVE OR IS SUPPOSED TO HAVE. There is absolute evidence of chemtrails being formed.

NOW, answer those questions without any name calling and you can consider yourselves real debunkers, skeptics, and intelligent rebuttallists.

-- Stacey (webmaster@chemtrails.sites.cc), December 06, 1999.

Stacey! A breath of fresh air. Welcome to TB2K, and enjoy reading. Thank for for writing in such a clear manner. We have seen these chemtrails and nothing is going to negate our eyeballs :-)

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 06, 1999.


First of all, read what I said. I live in Washington, DC. I live very close one of the approach patterns for Reagan National Airport. I watch the planes a lot. I also work in Rockville, MD. Above Rockville it is very common to see hundreds of planes every day on their approaches to both National Airport and Dulles Airport. I see hundreds of contrails per week such as what cuddluppy has described here. Yesterday, I saw the exact same ones cuddluppy described. They are normal contrails.

Secondly, you are incorrect in your description of contrails. You said, "Normal jet contrails come from the ENGINES on the wings. They are double lines, pencil thin, and "follow" the jet across the sky. Then they go away within a minute or two. They can be longer and thicker, but the point is they dissipate and they come from engines when the hot air collides with the frigid air at high altitudes." This is not at all true. I've seen contrails which last for hours--normal contrails. Also, they are not always double lines; that depends on how many engines the plane has. You don't have all of your facts straight.

Thirdly, I didn't call anyone names.

Fourth, I am not refuting the claims of people who are looking at contrails that I haven't seen (although if I saw them I probably would). I simply stated here that I saw the same contrails that were seen by the person who started this thread and that, on this issue, said person was full of it.

Lastly, for Lisa. You have placed your own interpretation on things that I have said. I am in no way, shape, or form an optimistic doomer. I do not have a "bug-out plan" other than the mere existence of friends and family in more or less rural areas. I am a "polly" on Y2K simply because I was labelled one by some idiots who have posted here. I wear that label proudly now, despite the fact that it truly has no meaning in the grand scheme of things.

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), December 06, 1999.

A quick search on Yahoo reveals the following among other links:

http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/%28Gh%29/guides/mtr/cld/oth/cntrl.rx ml

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), December 06, 1999.

Buddy--there is no point in wasting your time with these people. I know I won't any more--I am a commercial pilot with a major carrier and have yet to see any chemtrails or any aircraft "spraying". I thought this was a Y2K forum --guess I was wrong--a rumour mill would be a more appropriate name!

-- Eli K. (Elk@fnet.com), December 06, 1999.

Eli, Stacey, A & L and all,

I believe that I speak for many people who read these posts and ARE appriciative of the information being given. Eli, I do believe that you have not seen anything to report about contrails. However, I also believe that other people have seen what they claim.

I appreicate both points of view. I now am presented with a decision to make on my own. without your two different views I would not have much to make that decision on. Now I do have some data to work with. It is better to have some data than none or only one set of data. Please do not degenerate this info-gathering/sharing into a fight that cannot be won by either side. Please keep sharing your data with the rest of us.

Praying for you.

-- wally wallman (wally_yllaw@hotmail.com), December 06, 1999.

BUDDY ~ Hi, I wasn't directing my post to you specifically, btw...I didn't even see yours actually. I've read thru these threads and it bugged me that the ones "debunking" it all tend to assume people are looking out and seeing a jet go by with contrails and wigging out about it. I wanted to clarify the difference was all. There are thousands of pics out there (on our site also) that are not normal contrails. And for what it's worth, I've seen plenty chemtrails and for awhile dismissed it altogether as contrails, because I'm not a pilot and don't fly so "technically" I can't argue the point. That was until the week of November the site was created when I saw a new spray campaign and grabbed the video camera with the trusty zoom feature. I saw it and taped it and several aircraft had cannisters (my term) or foggers that were attached to the rear of the jet, and were NOT engines. They were in fact releasing a huge mass of something that resulted in the expanding cloud layers. One streak. I know these are not contrails. I've also witnessed commercial jets passing alongside and above and below the chemtrails, their contrails normal and dissipating. I also know that commercial jets don't fly in circles, they don't cross paths with one another at the kinds of intersections these chem jets are passing, and I also know people aren't hallucinating...this is happening and it deserves feedback from whoever is behind it. Didn't intend to ruffle feathers but I know what I saw, what is on the video plain as say many times from many craft, and from photos that have been submitted to me and taken by me...from all over. I have no problem with people who disagree...it's when they get to making wise cracks and calling people names when they have no real grasp of what's being reported that inspired the post. It was "general". I know many people disagree. Many in my own family disagree, but I have spent much time trying to "see for myself", and visited the DoD and AF and other sites, read thru pages and pages of THEIR information and they ARE capable and have every intention of doing some pretty alarming stuff. And they don't feel like they have to answer to anyone. If the chemtrail issue is harmless, why can't they just address it and be done with it? If it's government related there's a real good likelihood that it's probably illegal anyway...they're too power hungry to care about the people and someone posted somewhere about they don't see us as anything but numbers, war casualties, etc. That's hard to choke down but it is the truth. Like it or not. I don't know what it is or why. I know what I see and have proof of and it's a substance being sprayed. NOT contrails. I know the difference.

-- Stacey (webmaster@chemtrails.sites.cc), December 06, 1999.

Alkyloid said...

"contrails have existed since the beginning of time "

.....What kind of planes were making them back then, or was it teradaktyl?

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), December 06, 1999.

Sorry, Alkyloid...

.....Having reread, I see now that you were quoting. My sincere apologies. May the appropriate poster take propewr credit...

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), December 06, 1999.


You're a shill. You're selling stuff on your web-site.

Enough said.

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), December 07, 1999.

Umm...nope, I sell zip on the site. There is one link for video available from the folks at contrail connection. I make no fees or income of any kind if anyone gets their video. We have the initial video available for anyone who wants it, we do not sell it. We do ask for 5 bucks to cover the cost of a tape and shipping. It's not intended for commercialism. It's intended for serious chem investigators to add to their material if they wish. Since more video has been made available, we are considering making a documentary. There's nothing else even at the site that's marketable. Sorry, before you attempt to discredit me, get your facts straight.

We're not in this for money. We're in this for answers.

-- Stacey (webmaster@chemtrails.sites.cc), December 07, 1999.

The url to the site is www.chemtrails.sites.cc Have a look. Nothing "for sale" or TO sell on the chemtrails site.

Enough said. NOW.

-- Stacey (webmaster@chemtrails.sites.cc), December 07, 1999.

You're not a shill, Stacey? Too bad. I gave you more credit than you deserve then.

I suppose you'd think that Washington, DC is getting sprayed right now. I was just outside and there are jet contrails criss-crossing all over the skies right now. 1:25pm ET 8 DEC 1999

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), December 08, 1999.

I don't know about DC, baby...I'm down here in Cajun country... but if they aren't spraying the politicain, I sure do wish they would. Just go on and use RAID. :-)

-- Stacey (webmaster@chemtrails.sites.cc), December 10, 1999.

Oh I thought you said "spayed"

-- Sir R (richard.dale@unum.co.uk), December 10, 1999.

That too... :-)

-- Stacey (webmaster@chemtrails.sites.cc), December 10, 1999.

tt, now Clinton has the flu too.

12/12/99 -- 8:51 PM

White House canceling trip to Houston

Washington (AP) - A ``mild case of the flu'' has prompted President Clinton to cancel a fund-raising trip to Houston planned for Monday, a White House spokesman said Sunday evening.

Clinton ``has been struggling with it for a few days and it's finally getting to him,'' added spokesman Mike Hammer.

He said the president expects to be better in time for important Middle East peace talks Wednesday in Washington. [ good luck ]

-- pollyticks not exempt (do@they.even.know?), December 12, 1999.

Now that is VERY interesting.

-- Glen (glen12@aol.com), December 12, 1999.

By the way, anybody else notice that - once they were finshed with series of appearances from west to east, consistently repeating the same square pattern of overlapping, persistant contrails over repeating parts of the country - but NOT over the Atlantic... that the patterns NEVER repeated again?

Once they were finished - and I'll give buddy the doubt of what they were doing - but once they were finished - the patterns NEVER were seen again. There's been all sorts of cool days, warm days, cloudy and partly cloudy days -


So, Buddy - if these patterns were so frequent, why did they go away as soon as the section of the country was covered?

You know, you'd think that they'd be smart enough to at least "try" to coverup better than that. Or are they merely reloading? Cancelled all flights early - so there is no jet traffic? Where did these "routine they are always there" contrails go?

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), December 12, 1999.

I noticed that too, Robert.

-- blitz (then@back.to.normal), December 13, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

Where did these "routine they are always there" contrails go?

I don't think that the frequency of mention on this forum is a good measure of how often the trails are appearing in the sky. I think these batches of sightings relate more to someone saying something interesting about them, prompting a lot of "me too" posts. For example, they were spraying here, today, and have done so almost every day since I first noticed anything in June. But I don't talk about it all the time unless there is something new or interesting to relate.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), December 13, 1999.

This is a letter to inform or to refresh. It’s easy for the U.S. government and others to get away with almost anything because informed people like myself are labeled insane and delusional.

If you are about to stop reading this, fine. I know your type. You’re a government ass kissing sheep. This is ok as there will always be many people like me who choose to open their minds and think for themselves.

A year or two ago I wrote an email. I sent information about chemtrails or as some people like to call them, contrails, to various government officials, politicians, bureaucrats, newspapers and television news programs.

What resulted was a short news report on channel nine which told the story about people being misinformed about chemtrails. Ignorant people think that if it’s on the television then its true.

What a sad world we live in. The world is sad but I wont let it get me down. I used to get “depressed” and very angry about the fucked up things that happen.

I have realized that violence and terrorism will not solve the problem of chemtrails. The only way we can help people is by praying and educating people i.e. converting sheep into free thinking individuals. Writing NOT fighting.

If this information gets through to the people responsible for chemtrails I have one word for you: “KARMA” I doubt that anything will ever happen to stop chemtrails completely. Terrorism and war is only going to add to the bullshit. Bush is one of the biggest terrorist’s in the world. I know he will be fucked after death.

The average shaman knows ways to fight and disperse chemtrails. Hopefully more shamans will learn and practice these methods. Thank you for your time and if you want to help everyone please distribute this information to everyone you can. If you have never heard of chemtrails or contrails, look them up on the Internet.

Weather Control Is it strange how, when we are in the middle of summer, it can be raining out, and one day it is very "hot", the next day it is 15 degree cooler, and two days later, it is "hot" again? Does this seem strange? How about earthquakes in parts of the world, that are so devastating, that if they were to happen here, our whole economy could be ruined.

Do you think it is "odd" that people would suggest that the government can and does control the weather? I KNOW it sounds a little paranoid, but if you do the research to investigate, you will undoubtably arrive at the same conclusions. OUR WEATHER IS CONTROLLED!!

It all began with a Serbian fellow named Nikola Tesla, who came here to the United States in the late 1800's at the turn of the century. Tesla was a true "genius". Tesla had invented or discovered, the Radio, Television, Neon Lighting, Alternating Current, Partical Beams, and there is much reason to believe he was involved with building the world's first flying saucer projects equipt with Free- Energy. Tesla had figured out how to "tap" the abundant electricity generated by the earth's rotation. The same electricity which causes lightning, which we can visibly see.

Tesla was also known for having developed ways to use "Scalar Electromagnetics". The use of which could be for "Good" purposes or "not so good" ones. One of the "Inventions" he had, he called the "Earthquake Machine". He claimed that with the "Press of a button", he could split the Earth in two. There are also variations of this, depending on the frequency used and the ocillating rate. A small tremor could be produced, or a huge catastrophe.

Currently, the military has control over this technology and is using it in a number of ways. The main use of it for weather control, I believe, is a project in Alaska called HAARP. This stands for High Auroral Arial Research Project. The "Official" story behing this can be checked out by going to the Offical HAARP Home Page. Be aware though, that the Army has created a "Cover" for what this Project "Really" is. The project is for "Weather Control", however, they claim it was created to "Monitor" the waether patterns, and such. This is total Bulls**t. If you believe that, I have some "Prime" real estate, farmland, and fruit orchards to sell you, in Alaska, that is.

Nick Begich is probably the best source today, as well as the first, to point out and teach about the "True" story behind HAARP, and how it all got started. (I am not very scientific, although I understand alot. So I will not go into things I cannot explain or discuss on my own here. You can read these people's writings for yourself to get the best understanding. I am only going to convey the basic message here.)

Since Nick's book, "Angel's Don't Play this HAARP" came out a few years back, there have been several other good sources of information that have come along.

Rain-making Control Act 1967 Version No. 012 Rain-making Control Act 1967 Act No. 7637/1967 Version incorporating amendments as at 1 July 1998 TABLE OF PROVISIONS Section Page

Version No. 012 Rain-making Control Act 1967 Act No. 7637/1967 Version incorporating amendments as at 1 July 1998 An Act to regulate certain Rain-making and other Cloud-modification Processes, to make Provision with respect to Claims for Damages against Persons lawfully engaged therein and for other purposes. BE IT ENACTED by the Queen's Most Excellent Majesty by and with the advice and consent of the Legislative Council and the Legislative Assembly of Victoria in this present Parliament assembled and by the authority of the same as follows (that is to say): 1. Short title and commencement (1) This Act may be cited as the Rain-making Control Act 1967. (2) This Act shall come into operation on a day to be fixed by proclamation of the Governor in Council published in the Government Gazette. 2. Definitions In this Act unless inconsistent with the context or subject-matter-- "prescribed" means prescribed by regulations made under this Act; "rain-making operation" means the seeding or nucleating of clouds by artificial means from a manned aircraft. 3. Authority to carry out rain-making operationsWhenever it appears to the Minister to be desirable in the public interest to promote rainfall or otherwise modify natural cloud processes in any part of Victoria-- (a) for improving primary production either generally or locally and whether with respect to one or more than one primary product; (b) for improving water storages either generally or locally; (c) for reducing fire-danger in a forest area; or (d) for any other sufficient purpose-- the Minister may authorise the carrying out of rain-making operations in respect of the area or areas concerned. S. 4 amended by No. 46/1998 s. 7(Sch. 1). 4. Authority to make arrangements Where the Minister authorises rain-making operations under the foregoing provisions of this Act he shall issue his authority to some person or body under his control to make arrangements for carrying out those operations. 5. Form and content of authority (1) Every authority under this Act to carry out rain-making operations-- (a) shall be in writing signed by the Minister and addressed to the authorised officer or body; (b) shall be subject to such conditions limitations and restrictions as are prescribed or the Minister thinks fit to impose with respect to carrying out the rain-making operations; and (c) may at any time by the Minister be revoked or varied by notice in writing to the authorised officer or body. (2) An authority given by the Minister under this Act may authorize rain-making operations to be carried out on any specified day or days or may authorise a programme of rain-making operations to be carried out whenever atmospheric conditions are favourable during any period and in any area specified in the authority. S. 5(3) amended by Nos 41/1987 s. 103(Sch. 4 item 55.1), 46/1998 s. 7(Sch. 1). (3) The Minister shall cause a copy of every authority issued under this Act to be forwarded to Minister administering the Water Act 1989, the Minister administering the Conservation, Forests and Lands Act 1987 and the Minister administering Part 9 of the Local Government Act 1989. 6. Consultation of MinistersThe Minister shall not revoke or vary any authority issued at the request of any other Minister without first consulting with the other Minister upon the matter. 7. Duration of authority Unless sooner revoked an authority under this section shall remain in force until the rain-making operations authorised by the authority have been carried out or, if any time is specified in the authority for completing the rain-making operations, until the expiration of that time. 8. Cloud-seeding in Victoria to induce rainfall in another State At the request of the Minister of an adjoining State administering any Act corresponding with this Act the Minister may authorise rain- making operations to be carried out in Victoria to promote rainfall in the adjoining State. 9. Offence to carry out unauthorised rain-making operationsAny person who carries out any rain-making operations in Victoria which are not authorized under this Act shall be guilty of an offence. Penalty: $1 000 or imprisonment for twelve months. 10. Certificate to be evidence A certificate in writing purporting to be signed by the Minister that any specified rain-making operations were or were not authorized under this Act to be carried out shall be conclusive evidence that the operations were or were not so authorized. 11. Minister may order discontinuance of unauthorised operations (1) Where it appears to the Minister that any person or body is carrying out or is about to carry out rain-making operations not authorized under this Act the Minister may by order require the person or body to discontinue or refrain from commencing the rain- making operations. (2) An order made under sub-section (1) shall be in writing signed by the Minister and may be served personally or by post. (3) Any person or body to whom an order under this section is addressed who fails to comply with the terms of the order shall in addition to any penalty to which he is liable under section 9 be liable to a penalty of not more than $1 000 for every day upon which he continues to carry out rain-making operations in contravention of the order. 12. No liability in respect of authorized operations. (1) Neither the Minister, any person or body authorized by the Minister to make arrangements for carrying out a rain-making operation, nor any person carrying out rain-making operations authorized by the Minister under this Act shall in any way be liable in respect of any loss or damage caused by or arising out of the precipitation of rain hail sleet snow ice fog or mist in consequence of the rain-making operations so carried out. (2) A person carrying out rain-making operations outside Victoria under and in accordance with the law (if any) corresponding with this Act and in force in the State or Territory where the operations are carried out shall not in any way be liable for any loss or damage caused by or arising out of the precipitation in Victoria of rain hail sleet snow ice fog or mist in consequence of the rain- making operations so carried out. 13. Reports on rain-making operations S. 13(1) amended by No. 46/1998 s. 7(Sch. 1). (1) The persons or body authorised to make arrangements for carrying out rain-making operations under this Act shall furnish a report in writing concerning those operations to the Minister in accordance with the provisions of sub-section (2) or upon request in writing made by the Minister. S. 13(2) amended by No. 46/1998 s. 7(Sch. 1). (2) Every report in writing made for the purposes of this section shall be in the prescribed form signed by or on behalf of the persons or body concerned and shall be lodged with the Minister-- (a) where the operations will be completed within fourteen days from the commencement thereof--within forty-eight hours after the completion of operations; (b) where the operations extend more than fourteen days from the commencement thereof--not later than Wednesday in each week with respect to operations conducted during the week ending at midnight on the previous Saturday; and (c) where the report is requested by the Minister--within the time stipulated by the Minister in the request. 14. Construction of references to rain etc. (1) In any Act other than this Act and in any other law contract agreement or instrument (whether passed made or entered into before or after the commencement of this Act), but subject to any express provision to the contrary in any Act, a reference to rain hail sleet snow ice fog or mist includes a reference to rain hail sleet snow ice fog or mist (as the case requires) which resulted or may have resulted from a rain-making operation and every such Act law contract agreement or instrument shall be read and construed and have effect accordingly. (2) Nothing in this Act shall be construed as depriving a person of any right of action that he might have apart from this Act in respect of or arising out of a rain-making operation that is not authorised under this Act. 15. Regulations The Governor in Council may make regulations for regulating and controlling rain-making operations and activities and in particular, without in any way limiting the generality of the foregoing, for or with respect to-- (a) prescribing forms for the purposes of this Act; (b) prescribing conditions limitations or restrictions to which authorities given under this Act are to be subject and prescribing penalties of not more than $100 for contravention of or failure to comply with any condition limitation or restriction to which an authority is subject; (c) prescribing the information to be furnished by persons or bodies carrying out or assisting in rain-making operations under this Act; (d) regulating the letting of contracts for carrying out rain-making operations; (e) prescribing the equipment to be used in carrying out rain-making operations and the mode of carrying out such operations; (f) prescribing the qualifications of persons employed in carrying out rain-making operations and prohibiting the employment of unqualified persons; (g) prescribing penalties not exceeding $100 for breach of regulations made under this section; and (h) generally any matter or thing required or authorised to be prescribed for carrying this Act into effect.

-- Jason Cain (spastik_frog@hotmail.com), March 26, 2003.

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