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I't unbelievable. Clear blue sky this morning, now being covered with cross hatches. The planes doing the spraying (I've seen 3 or 4 so far) are white. Getting the binoculars. Just in time for today's Panthers game...maybe I won't go.


-- Roland (notelling@nohwere.com), December 05, 1999


Roland, take pictures and call everybody you know. Ask them to look up in the sky. We saw the pretty rainbow prisms for the first time yesterday. It's not normal -- call people and make them aware.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 05, 1999.

You my friend are an idiot!! Notice that the chemtrails you describe are emmitting from the engines of commercial aircraft. Get a life and an education.

-- Eli Kraling (Elk@fnet.com), December 05, 1999.

Hey Roland, if you don't go to the game today, can I have your tickets?

-- Butt Nugget (catsbutt@umailme.com), December 05, 1999.

Took lots of pictures and made some phone calls.

Eli, you are the idiot. I live near a major airport and know what a contrail looks like. It GOES AWAY. There are other planes with normal contrails. These are creating cloud cover and I'm seeing the prism like clouds too. Until you have seen something with your own eyes, Eli, shut up. This is most certainly NOT normal.

-- roland (nottelling@nowhere.com), December 05, 1999.

Eli, most likely you are the idiot! Commercial airlines DO NOT criss- cross the sky over large Metropotitan area's!!! Airplanes criss- crossing over large cities is deliberate action. There is no need for it, other than spraying the populace with what ever they want! Many are coming down with lung congestion, me and my wife included. Most likely anthrax. Eli, I'm betting that you think our Government and Klinton are wonderful and you think a 3 day prep in enough. GET A LIFE, ELI!!!

-- snodgrass (snod@grass.com), December 05, 1999.

Here in So. Nevada they are busy this morning too. Eli, do some more research before you make an idiot out of YOURSELF. We can watch the planes turn those 'trails' on and off. Maybe they are practicing turning their engines on and off and are gliding to save fuel?

We can see the flight path from Las Vegas Intl airport, and those planes don't leave any trails. The planes leaving the chemtrails aren't landing at either the commercial airport or at Nellis.

-- cough-cough (bill@tinfoil.com), December 05, 1999.

Hey Roland--

Where the heck is the media! They can't be ALL under the Gov.con spell can they? I just want them to trust us with the truth. It's our country, our choice, and we NEED to know! Their silence only forbodes the worst. I'm not talking just trails here. The whole damn mess. I thought that was going to be the purpose of the Y2K community conversations. Or at least I hoped it would be. "Well folks, we've got a problem. We can't get a handle of the scope of it, but we feel it is your right to know." that type of thing. We all know what really happened in them. "Don't worry, be happy" AAaarrrrrrrghgghgh!!

If TPTB feel they need to protect us from biobagsofcrap then ....Oh well, I'll come back to the realities at hand now!

Another thing, why spray on clear, openly visible, gotta be noticied, days? Or are they using the 'ol bait and switch routine. [shrug] We should call our local Civil Air Patrols, private pilots assoc.'s, small air strips, etc. from each area this has been spotted.

Well, back to packing. Thanks for the heads up Roland. Good luck buddy, and may God keep an eye on you and yours.



-- Michael (mikeymac@uswest.net), December 05, 1999.

Eli, where have you been? Please read the "history" of chemtrails.

Here are the good suggestions to date: 1. Take photos and tell everyone in your area to LOOK. Call the media.

2. Set out some distilled water to try and get a sample of the "fallout", and then have the water tested.

There is something going on. Sometimes, there are REGULAR contrails. Regular contrails are NOT what is concerning us.

Hopefully we can run this down and find out what's up.

-- Gregg (g.abbott@starting-point.com), December 05, 1999.

Still going on...looks like they are concentrating on an area east & north of the city right now, although serveral trails have been right over head and some to the west. I live on a golf course, so it's a pretty open view.

And BTW, the normal commercial jets are leaving absolutely NO contrails today. I too have seen them "turn off" whatever is being emitted. Some of the streaks have sizeable breaks in them. Others suddenly appear mid-sky and continue as far as I can see.

Too damn weird.

Anyone in Raleigh seeing these today?


-- Roland (Nottelling@nowhere.com), December 05, 1999.

No snodgrass I do not think Klinton and our gov are great---actually I despise much of what they do and try to do. I spend much of my day at altitude and contrails are very familiar to me. I have over 9,000 hours in DC-9, MD-80 and Fokker 100 aircraft. I have yet to experience a chemtrail.

-- Eli Kraling (Elk@fnet.com), December 05, 1999.

And by the way--commercials do criss-cross the sky over metro areas-- get out your Jeppesen or other charts depicting Jet routes and Victor Airways and you will see for yourself the predetermined routes commercial aircraft follow.

-- Eli Kraling (Elk@fnet.com), December 05, 1999.


These contrails spread out relatively quickly and soon resemble cloud cover. And what altitude do you spend most of your time at? These planes are flying much lower that the commercial jets at crusing altitude.

Since you seem to be so bright, can you explain to me why THESE planes are leaving long, slowly spreading "contrails" that DO NOT DISSAPATE, while the others leave absolutely no trace of a trail? I'd really like a rational explanation, based in scientific fact. R.

-- Roland (nottelling@nowhere.com), December 05, 1999.

Roland--I spend most of my cruise time at Flight level 330-350, however enroute to these altitudes I experience all lower altitudes. This is normal behavior for contrails depending on winds aloft, density altitude, temp, etc

-- Eli Kraling (Elk@fnet.com), December 05, 1999.


-- Roland (nottelling@nowhere.com), December 05, 1999.

Typical---I have often found it very difficult to argue with ignorance!

-- Eli Kraling (Elk@fnet.com), December 05, 1999.

Here Eli, since you're an expert on the subject, solve this riddle:

The schedules of commercial passenger and freight airlines are published. They are essentially unchanged from day to day. So, the mysterious contrail patterns being reported should be apparent almost every time the sky is relatively clear. This is not the case, according to observers.

If your explanation is a sudden increase of military flights, please explain this anomaly also.

-- ? (@ .), December 05, 1999.

Weather patterns are dynamic--- winds aloft, humidity and other factors are also. Yes schedules are published. The factors that contribute to contrail formation change daily in accordance with these patterns. Just because you saw one in one locale today doesn't mean you will see one again tomorrow. This is very simple--why make it more than what it is?

-- Eli Kraling (Elk@fnet.com), December 05, 1999.

--why make it more than what it is?

Eli- Have you forgotten which forum you are on?

-- CD (not@here.com), December 05, 1999.

So Eli, you are saying it is absolutely NORMAL for 3-5 airplanes at once to fly for 4-6 hours at a time,leaving trails that slowly spread until the chemtrails turn into clouds? And the rainbows in the clouds would be???

I do not blame anyone who does not believe in chemtrails if they have not seen them with their own eyes. I used to skip over threads that even mentioned them, as well as gold etc. I honestly thought it was Bogus. Until I saw them for myself.

But some of the threads on these posts seem like people are trying to purposely discredit. Why would anyone be on a thread if they truly didn't believe? Why would they waste their time trying to purposely discredit what people are seeing with their own eyes? Getting paid for it maybe???

By the way folks, Per Jim Berkland who is begging for press to cover this - samples need to be taken from glass ie car windshield, picture frame or something? Not from the grass or ground (contamination).

-- Lurker (Lewiston@Idaho.com), December 05, 1999.

Yes, it's unbelievable. Last week we had them here in the Jacksonville, Florida area for several days. Thursday, December 2, the sky was a beautiful blue except for those darn con/chemtrails. I watched them for over five hours off and on. Got the binocs. The planes were white with a dark tail area. Have lived here for over 40 years and have never seen anything like this before even though we have a large military presence in the north Florida area.

We all need to be aware of this matter as well as Y2K. It's like not being able to see the forest for the trees. Chemtrails might be the real TIMEBOMB 2000.

This is my first post on this terrific forum. We've been lurkers and preppers since last December. Thanks to everyone past and present for all the great posts. You will probably never know how many people you have helped.

God be with us all as we travel towards the new millennium.



-- Lurkess (Lurkess@Lurking.Net), December 05, 1999.

Humor me folks. How many of these planes that are supposedly spraying are porp driven and how many are jets?

I've seen the picture of the "spraying." I've seen pictures of some of the planes involved. When I see pictures of a prop driven plane sraying, then you'll have a story.

-- Buster Collins (BustrCollins@aol.com), December 05, 1999.

Yes Lurker it is absolutely normal for a contrail to evolve into a cirrus cloud formation. And yes light through water vapor does result in fragmented light (rainbow). It really is this simple people. Perhaps the gov. is not so stupid in keeping secrets from the public after all.

-- Eli Kraling (Elk@fnet.com), December 05, 1999.

Here guys - argue with the history books:

1950's: .mil marches unwitting soldiers across Ground Zero to study the effect of fallout

1960's: .gov injects unwitting retarded children with radioactive chemicals to study effects

1960's: .gov experiments with syphilis on unwitting blacks

1970's: .gov experiments on unwitting people with LSD and other hallucinogens

-- ? (@ .), December 05, 1999.

I have not seen the chemtrails in the sky myself, but have visited all the suggested websites where very clear and consistent photos are published from all across the country. Perhaps someone can post the websites so that anyone Eli is causing to think that the people on this forum are nuts will have a chance to view them for themselves. Eli may be a paid disinformation artist, or he may need to see these photos for himself.

Having been married to a pilot with 15,000 hrs. in the air who then became an FAA inspector, I am very aware of the sky, and I have never seen ANYTHING up there like these photos I've seen on these websites. They are definitely something very different.

-- Forum Regular (Not@this.time), December 05, 1999.

Why spray on clear days ??? Why not most people don't believe that they are spraying anything at all anyways..and the ones who do believe are called nuts...I am so sick and tired of stupid people in this country.....get with the program folks Our country is not ours anymore.....Our political leaders have been bought off...... How many times do you need to have a brick drop on your head before you wake up and realize the truth....Chemtrails are real and I don't believe they are for our good....... Is there anyone out there that isn't falling to sleep with this damn american fairytail of how they will protect us ??????????????????

-- J.F. (chemtrailwatcher@aol.com), December 05, 1999.

Eli appears to be the kind of person who will stick to his position no matter what. He thinks ordinary people are confused about what they are seeing. Don't waste your time responding to him.

-- Dave (Dannco@hotmail.com), December 05, 1999.

Contrail buster here for hire. $109.95 per trail.

-- (Polly@troll.com), December 05, 1999.

The venom here is unbelievable. Eli, who apparently has firsthand knowledge on the subject matter, is being attacked by .... damn ... pick an adjective .... zealots. I thought the purpose of these threads was to gain knowledge. What has happened? I'm the first to say that I think our Gov. is as corrupt as a leaky condom (appropriate for Willie). But let's look at reality....when have they done anything covert or corrupt or underhanded to our face? They don't. They haven't. No Kahoonas amongst the lot. It's always by getting us to look the other way. It works. Where is the media? The International Bankers OWN the media. (They also own us via our sphincter-holed government)You ain't gonna hear diddley-squat that they don't want you to hear. The CFR will also see to that. www.hevanet.com/nitehawk - check it out, it's a beginning. Come on. It's broad daylight, and they don't care? (obviously it only affects Panther players) We are in a world of Int. Banker S%#t folks. Our money was never meant to be interest bearing. Our Forefathers knew better but our sphincter-holed Congress gave it all away with the Prezydent's blessing. Now they (think) they own us. I say, not today. Let's get back to the matter at hand. Y2K HAS to topple the Federal (nothing to do with the Gov., they just named it that so you would think it did) Reserve System. (You hold in your hand "Federal Reserve Notes", NOT DOLLARS!!!!) If it doesn't, we're up the creek. Bear arms, or wear chains. Wish you all well ... thanks for the vent time.

-- SlickWillie (UBIGHICK@Yahoo.com), December 06, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California My Chemtrails Page

Perhaps someone can post the websites so that anyone Eli is causing to think that the people on this forum are nuts will have a chance to view them for themselves. Eli may be a paid disinformation artist, or he may need to see these photos for himself.

Yeah, check out my chemtrails page. It includes a list of links to chemtrails sites, some of which provide numerous additional links. I also provide a list of chemtrails threads from this forum during the past few weeks. I've seen these trails numerous times with my own eyes and also managed to get three good photographs, one day.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), December 06, 1999.

Dancr--the pics you have are contrails --nothing more. No I am not a paid disinformation artist! I am in the left seat of an F-100 most of my workday for a major carrier and have yet to see any chemtrails. My route is in the northeast. I spoke with several of my peers this morning whose routes include: LAX, Seatac, Hartsfield, JFK, Pittsburgh---guess what? They have seen nothing out of the ordinary either. Quit wasting your time trying to worry people that are easily influenced.

-- Eli K. (Elk@fnet.com), December 06, 1999.

Dancr, your site is nice! Your photos wouldn't load on our computer, but the ones on your Linked pages did. Wow! Looks too familiar. Scrolling down those pages, there's some pics of the oil rainbows too.

Eli, sorry, you just totally discredited yourself in our eyes by saying chemtrails are just contrails. Our eyes don't lie, and what we've been seeing is way out of the ordinary.

Nurses are trained to observe by variance. This is Code Variant! And, many other pilots are saying it appears abnormal to them too.

Because of the time factor, we'll be suspending our postings about chemtrails (lasted @ 1 week), and hoping that the coming oil crunch will eliminate this pollution from the sky. If it doesn't -- that will be the OVER THE TOP BAROMETER.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 06, 1999.

A & L--I could really give a rats ass if I am discredited or not. You took what I said and changed it to suit your own agenda. I said the pics that were posted were pics of contrails. I deal with other pilots on a daily basis --people that are up there at altitude--if there were strange goings on we would be the first to report it.

-- Eli K. (Elk@fnet.com), December 06, 1999.

Eli - "Me thinks he doth protest too loudly..."

It doesn't really matter if he or others believe it or not - we all breath the same air.

-- cat (ccordes@ashland.baysat.net), December 06, 1999.

The pictures don't do the chemtrails justice. When they sprayed Atlanta last week, I was blown away by the immenseness of what I was seeing. the whole sky!!!

The planes were either DC-9's or 727's. They had red tails....I couldn't tell with my binoculars if the third engine of a 727 was there.

I could see six at once at one point. But also saw 3 and 4 at a time. They were lower than air traffic passing ove Atlanta would be. I would guess they were at 20,000 feet.

I could see planes flying out of Hartsfield Airport passing through the altitude with NO CONTRAILS. I have been around planes my whole life. My dad worked 48 years for United Airlines, and he also said these were no normal contrails. He also saw them in New Mexico in November.

Eli, maybe you just need to see them to know what people are talking about, The pictures CANNOT convey what is really happening.

-- Duke 1983 (Duke1983@AOL.com), December 06, 1999.

Roland wrote:

"Anyone in Raleigh seeing these today?"

It's funny that you should mention this. As unaccustomed as I am to believeing things without seeing them, I must admit that the whole contrails idea seems a bit far fetched to me.

However, on the day in question, after exiting a bookstore and beginning to drive home, I did happen to look up at a stoplight and see several parallel and crisscrossing 'contrails' about 25 miles NE of the RDU airport. It's not in the normal flight pattern as fas as I can tell (though I'm no expert). the contrails did seem awfully wide to me and even after getting home (about 20 minutes) I could still see the crisscrossing lines as they had not disappeared.

I thought it was interesting to say the least. If it is true, I wonder what the correlation between the contrails and the 120 cities could be.

-- Jay (havocuz@mindspring.com), December 07, 1999.

Eli is clearly a govt. shill. Go tell Slick Willie we're not buying your BS!!

-- (brett@miklos.org), December 07, 1999.

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