greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread


"(1) Prevention of hoarding, waste, etc. To the extent necessary to prevent hoarding, waste, or destruction of materials, supplies, commodities, accommodations, facilities, and services, to effectuate equitable distribution thereof, or to establish priorities therein as the public welfare may require, to investigate, and any other law to the contrary notwithstanding, to regulate or prohibit, by means of licensing, rationing, or otherwise, the storage, transportation, use, possession, maintenance, furnishing, sale, or distribution thereof, and any business or any transaction related thereto."

-- John Whitley (jwhitley@inforamp.net), December 02, 1999


Pretty much cover it.

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), December 02, 1999.

Hasn't Hawaii always had some kind of hoarding law tho? I mean it really is dependant on deliveries and has been in no way self sufficient since the 20's...

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan101st@Aol.com), December 02, 1999.

So... if they was smart they would have MANDATORY HOARDING.

Hear Ye, Hear Ye... all residents of these islands which depend on outside imports for EVERYTHING, shall henseforth and forevermore be encouraged, cajoled, and nagged to death until they establish and promise to maintain a minimum of 2 months (and preferably 6 - 12 months) of ALL SUPPLIES required by your household.

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), December 02, 1999.

A socialist state dominated by handout-dependent residents, this law, if true, doesn't surprise me. Personally knowing some anti- government Hawaiians who despise the government (but curiously they don't refuse to cash their welfare checks), I can vouch for the tendency of many there to look to TPTB for their living. Unfortunately, the person that I'm thinking of isn't an isolated example.

-- haha (haha@haha.com), December 02, 1999.

Ridiculous law!!

How would it have impacted those who stocked up on goods in preparation for the dock strike that was threatened a few months back? Damned near everyone was trying to stock up - or so we were told by family there.

-- kalani & katiuska (kalani_hanohano@hotmail.com), December 02, 1999.

Responding to haha:

As a full blooded Hawaiian I was taken-aback by your description of Hawaii as being a socialist state, and anti-government Hawaiians freely cashing their welfare checks.

The social and economic conditions in Hawaii are not subject to minimalistic interpretations or representations, but I did want to say that I CAN agree with your overall description, and can recognize the discrepancy exhibited by many of my culture who denigrate the "mother country", yet freely take from it. This is hypocritical, but with no available jobs, the economy in turmoil - they gotta eat.

But again, I can appreciate your descriptive innuendo.

-- kalani hanohano (kalani_hanohano@hotmail.com), December 02, 1999.


But you do not know the people that I know, do you? And knowing others who have taken advantage of the system, as well as knowing far too many who want to hang out by the beach rather than go find jobs, there is still a dependency mentality there. This does not go for all Hawaiians, obviously.

-- haha (haha@haha.com), December 02, 1999.

Hawaii is still legally a kingdom under occupation by the US. The takeover was illegal and opposed by nearly 100% of Hawaiians. To cash any checks put out by the US government is perfectly right, the robber barons have taken our land illegally, so why should not Hawaiians take back whatever they can. The Christianoid preachers gave out bibles and took land making themselves rich. Our youth was punished for speaking its own language. Shame on you! You try to tell others to cease being colonialists but you continue to rob us as you robbed and continue to rob American indians. Now your multinational bandits are about to turn you all into slave so you can taste the feeling of being abused and exploited as you have done to others. WTO is your comeuppance. Y2K may be the very blessing we all pray for.

-- Kona Kanaka (Kona@Pele.Interational), December 02, 1999.

most of the Hawaiians I know have to work two jobs to pay their rent.this is a result of the imposition of colonial mishandeling and a failure of the Feds and state authorities to release ,funds and land due the hawaiian people,All immigrants groups ,have benifited from the distruction of the Hawaiian lawful government in 1893, Queen Lili`uokalani's Letter of protest of 1893---"That I yield to the superior force of the United States of America...I do this UNDER PROTEST AND IMPELLED BY SAID FORCE....So 100 years later the Hawaiians wait for Justice,At the low end of the economic spectrum.And still they radiate Aloha(Love) and patience.As a Howlie(without breath),early white missionaries were so white they looked dead.I never cease to be amazed at the Kindness and joy and love of Family (ohana) that we foreign interlopers recieve on a daily basis .Yes there are foodstamps but Hawaiians are held to the same stringent elegibility as Mainlanders and they watch new alien residents recieve social security while they don't qualify. HA HA,if you only were in their shoes you wouldn't be as glib nor I doubt,as kind

-- merek (merek@aloha.net), December 02, 1999.

Don't get sanctimonius on me. You seem to assume that you are the only Hawaiians on this board. Dumb assumption. As I have a lineage that can be traced to cousins of the first royal family, your belief that you and noone else knows anything about the islands is ignorant, don't you think? Duh. My grandparents worked like dogs to put food on the family table. So don't give me any of that bullshit about not knowing about what it's like. I damn well know what it's like. Have lived through it.

And take your sovereignty argument elsewhere, moron. This board isn't to debate the soverignty issue. Yes, Hawaii was stolen from the natives. And the present system is obviously flawed. But if you can't see the obvious disconnect between someone who badmouths the government yet accepts its money, then you obviously lack basic reasoning capability. Having had family lands stolen by outsiders in earlier generations, I'm not too keen as to how Hawaii's wealth was stolen either. But what would you advise having, the old kapu system? Put your head back on ignoramus, Kona. I don't like the WTO. So don't put words into my mouth, Kona. I never mentioned them. Duh. Why don't you take a remedial reading class, bruddah?

-- haha (haha@haha.com), December 02, 1999.

And for the record, guys, I have no problem with assistance granted to families who genuinely need it.

-- haha (haha@haha.com), December 02, 1999.

Kona, Too bad we didn't realize how you felt. We should have given Hawaii to the Japanese. Would you have been happier then? Show me one place on this planet that has not been invaded, colonized or had its original population unmolested by the rest of the world. Get over it.

-- kozak (kozak@formerusaf.guv), December 02, 1999.

My husband is a third generation "local"...i.e. "immigrant"... the portuguese wave. I have visited your wonderful island many times and always found it filled with love and aloha. What I loved most is the warm acceptance of all people regardless of background. My first meeting with his family was nerve wracking..I came from the deep south and here I felt like I'd stepped into a foreign country. For I wasn't seeing the "touristy" side of Hawaii, but the genuine graciousness of a truly unique people. My new relatives were Chinese, Japanese, Polynesian, Portuguese, German, etc...I was overwhelmed at the reception that I received. I have never felt this much love in one place outside of a church.

I was dismayed at reading the above posts. It is very true that Hawaii was forced into the union, but as Kozak said, you had little choice. It was us or another equally strong foreign country. I know that is little or no consolation. I am truly sorry. It is also true that you did not have the might to stand alone in a hostile world. It is because you developed your love before your hate. Do not be sorry for that either. Some day maybe the rest of the world will learn from your example.

We cannot change the past, but we can try to change our attitudes. The Bishop trust needs to be reorganized (we all know that) and the Hawaiian schools need to expand to include ALL of the Hawaiian people. We have much to thank you for. Let it start with me. My husband is the man he is today, because of growing up in your lovely garden paradise. Thank you all so much. Mahalo!

-- Ynott (Ynott@incorruptible.com), December 03, 1999.

"And for the record, guys, I have no problem with assistance granted to families who genuinely need it."

Neither do I, as long as it solely comes from private voluntary sources. Need is not a valid claim (moral or legal). Your statement would be more honest if it were restated as follows:

"And for the record, guys, I have no problem with money (earned by the sweat of their brows) being taken at gunpoint from some people (usually not wealthy people) and given to other people (who are strangers to the first) that have done nothing to earn said money."

Read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand sometime to find out precisely what you espouse; read the part about the Twentieth Century Motor Company. Alternatively, you could read Alex. Sol.'s "The Gulag Archipelago" to find out what a society with socialist mores put fully into effect is like. Enjoy.


-- MinnesotaSmith (y2ksafeminnesota@hotmail.com), December 03, 1999.


You claims aristocratic descent ...As I have a lineage that can be traced to cousins of the first royal family... So why do you write like a baboon in circassian pantaloons?

You bray: if you can't see the obvious disconnect between someone who badmouths the government yet accepts its money, then you obviously lack basic reasoning capability....

Let us reason, bruddah, the government owns no money ....all the maoney is either tax revenue from citizens or the fruits of stolen money, such as the wealth of Hawaiians and American Indians who never received what was agreed. So your argument is that of an idiot.

You further cackle: .... But what would you advise having, the old kapu system? Put your head back on ignoramus, Kona. I don't like the WTO. So don't put words into my mouth, Kona. I never mentioned them. Duh

You never mentioned the WTO and I never mentioned the kapu system.

Hawaii needs to be rid of its mafia government. Read Power and Land in Hawaii It mentions all the names of all the crooks and all the dirty deals they pulled. It spares none. All races and both parties are involved. Hawaii is in a worse condition politically than the lowest banana republic in Latin America. Wake up and stand on your hind feet.

. Why don't you take a remedial history and political science class, bruddah?

-- KONA KANAKA (Kona@Pele.Interational), December 04, 1999.

Aloha Everyone!

This started as a post about anti-hoarding! Now is has changed to something else?

We who live here know that some people take advantage of a "haole system" it is true:) So what! It is also true that Hawaii was *taken illegally*! The point is a value system, it is hard for some to accept "Hawaiians" hanging out on the beach and not working the 2 JOBS!

I have Hawaiian friends who are *Homeless* on the beach, not because they have to be, but because they Choose to be! It is about VALUES! They value a simple life, not the traffic and hustle of modern Hawaii! I think it is GREAT!

They are looked down on by most people here. But yet they stand their ground, why? Because they KNOW the real value of LIFE! They love these islands and the simple ways of old! Is this bad? I have told them to *EXPECT* those who now badmouth them to come and ask HOW TO SURVIVE so simply!

"Those who are first will be last, and those who are last will be first"!!!!

Yes they take the checks, they aren't stupid! I guess the money is better spent on other more important things like weapons of mass destruction?

I humbly ask all of you one simple question? What would LOVE do?

As for the the anti-hoarding! Scary but yet, we do live on an island and there is no getting around that! The people here don't have a clue for the most part! However since the Matson dockworkers almost went on strike, most bought extra rice and TP:)

These Island have a mix of everyone on this earth. And we live in harmony for the most part. I hope that the ALOHA SPIRIT LIVES in this time of humbling?

I have promoted for a long time, take care of your neighbors too! Don't make the government tell you to do it, do it because it is the right thing to do!

Hawaiians and Haoles alike, teach the world about the true meaning of Aloha=LOVE!!!!!

aloha nui aikane, Lokelo in Hawaii Nei

-- Lokelo in Hawaii (lokelo@hotmail.com), December 04, 1999.

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