I was just talking to my contract electrician (industrial) and he asked me why AEP would be "throwing in" large communication towers at some of their bigger substations. He says that it appears to be a rush job in that from the time they broke ground to having the tower up was only a few days. I've seen the one they put up in New Philadelphia, Ohio and it's not for local CB traffic....this is one BIG TOWER. He wasn't aware that the grid relies on the Phone system for sync. Anyone else notice this where you live??

-- George Tirebiter (gtirebiter@firesign.com), December 01, 1999

Answers

George,

The grid doesnt rely on phone lines for synch. Mr. Decker can add that to his Y2K myth list.

Depends on what kind of towers they are. Many utilities are allowing cell phone companies to use their towers and stations for sites, for a fee of course. Also some of the MW and PLC frequencies they use to use were given over for civilian use so they had to install new equipment using other bands they got as a trade off.

-- The Engineer (The Engineer@tech.com), December 01, 1999.

the squirrel hunter has been posting about towers going up along freeways, not sure it's the same thing

-- tower power (talk@wave.yak), December 01, 1999.

George...

.....I saw the same towers you mentioned on old route #21, my addy is real, if you wish to converse with someone from N.P.

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), December 01, 1999.

Towers from 100 to 500 feet tall, with a triangle platform on top and having antennas at the tips, either of a rod or blade design have been going up by the dozens in Central Penna. From Harrisburg to Clearfield County, from Bedford to Williamsport you will find them hovering over ever town in between. I have seen them erected overnight, in most cases, but in the last month they have missing the triangle top, as if production could not keep up with demand.

They are spaced no farther then 5 miles apart, but as close as 3 miles. They make a grid pattern, so it has been easy determinating where the next will rise. Seventyfive percent of the towers have their a small building at base with an indoor propane heating source, a huge 500 gallon bottle of LP gas and a back-up generator. All have ten foot high chain linked fences around them.

All the people who have had the land they were built on are being paid aproximatly $500. per month. All the property owners that they have been erected on, have been told it was for Sprint or a simuler company. When questioned farther on who it belongs to, they usually change subject. They will say it is to network all telephones cross-country someday soon. They claim it will do away will cell phones and everyone will only need one number to a call no matter where they are in the USA.

But I can't see it happening that way, too many links. The mesh idea is good though, but it would be better to be used by, say the Nationial Guard or such to track, locate and jam if needed any and all radio communication from short wave radio's, CB's (even short range hand held ones). That would come in handy if the military wanted a total news black-out or any of another real freaken scary ideas I could think of.

But Hey, I'm probably just paranoid from living under all these freaken towers.

-- SilentRunnig (CanYouHearMe@Calling.You), December 01, 1999.

We just had a couple of towers go up in the last couple of weeks. The latest one is on Interstate 81 in S.Central Pennsylvania. It's not a real tall one and has some kind of solar panel on it. It took about 4 hrs to go up. The others are scattered around but, the most noticable is the one just outside of the Army Depot. This one is HUGE and is surrounded by an electric fence with barbed wire on top. Took those guys about a week and a half to put it up.

We are also seeing an increased amount of military traffic, especially by train. Numerous amount of Humv's, tanks and white Suburban or Explorer style trucks. Just thought I'd pass this on.

-- Familyman (prepare@home.com), December 01, 1999.

Yep ... this was my gig until not long ago. You take it from here.

>"<

-- SH (squirrel@huntr.com), December 01, 1999.

It is a giant HAARP system.

(sorry, couldn't resist)

-- Margaret J (janssm@aol.com), December 01, 1999.

If you take all the reports and connect all the dots some REAL $#!+ is coming down!

-- nowhere to hide (towers@chemtrails.white things), December 01, 1999.

FamilyMan, - You must be near Fort Indiantown Gap. I'd love to hear anything you could tell me of how the base looks from a casual veiw from the road.. Was run-down real bad last time I saw it a year ago. They looked like they were fixing it up abit. Any progress? Any new fences around those deserted barricks? I'd give my real address, but sorry I stopped believing I had the right to free speech and other simple freedoms a while back.

-- SilentRunnig (CanYouHearMe@Calling.You), December 01, 1999.

The tower was constructed here. too. It's called a GWEN tower (ground wave emergency network) system for providing codes to nuclear forces AFTER US command and control has been obliterated.

-- Susan (Gettysburg@PA.com), December 01, 1999.

PS FamilyMan, -That smaller tower probably has a wind directional device too, for camo. Rumors on it, is that it will be used to stop traffic along interstates, if fleeing persuit vehicules or such, by using A EMP, but that could be just a cop bragging.

-- SilentRunnig (CanYouHearMe@Calling.You), December 01, 1999.

ground wave emergency network) system for providing codes to nuclear forces AFTER US command and control has been obliterated.

ahhh, I feel so much better now! Actually, I'm not liking all this too much :-(

Mike

==================================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), December 01, 1999.

This is from "How to prosper during the coming bad years".

Snip

According to the order, the Department of Defence will develope

...plans and programs for emergency control of all devices capable of emitting electro-magnetic radiation.

End Snip

Executive Order #11490

The book was written in 1980,by Howard Ruff.

-- Maggie (song bird@iwon.com), December 01, 1999.

GWEN can some other source (mil) give any information on this because this is truly a frightening piece of information. And they are in a rush to get this done. Maybe that three day storm will have 100's of years of contamination.

Sigh, I'm going back to the Seattle threads because that is good news compared to where this might be headed.

-- squid (Itsdark@down.here), December 01, 1999.

I live pretty close to Ft. Indiantown Gap. There are quite a few towers being built and the base of the Blue mountain. BTW..you are right about the smaller one, it does have a wind directional on top and has a phone box also. Most of the military traffic is south of Ft. IG and usually heads west on the turnpike or north on I.81 If I can be of more help, let me know. I tend to lurke all day long but, rarely at night. My real email is here and it is my work location.

-- Familyman (cmarpoe@us.ibm.com), December 01, 1999.

Silentrunning:

Yea, its really rundown but, still some activity. Actually, quite a bit of activity in the last couple of months. The fence is fixed up and I believe its been replace with a new one. I can check this weekend since I hunt in that area. A buddy of mine says that they still have ammo stored there and it's mostly used for repairing vehicles and equipment out of local Navy and Army depots. Don't know if its true, though, so don't hold me to that.

-- Familyman (cmarpoe@us.ibm.com), December 01, 1999.

FWIW, the GWEN system was deactivated in the last two years. Some of the stations have been turned over to anothe agency for use as transmitters for sending the GPS system error correction signals. GPS error correction is what is used to allow a GPS reciever to operate at its maximum accuracy. It's been the big key to allowing all the civilian use of GPS by civilian airliners. Those GPS stations which aren't needed for the GPS use have been taken down.

As far as AES putting up what sounds like is a microwave relay tower. Since they're a more spread-out company than the average power company, maybe they're constructing their own microwave communications system between offices, plants and substations.

Some power companies already do have such networks. Carolina Power & Light comes to mind, have microwave antennas on towers at offices and substations, and on the smokestacks at the generating plants. If you figure the numbers of channels the microwave links provide versus the number of phone lines a similar cost would provide, the microwave system is cheaper over the long term.

For Y2K purposes, somehow I'd prefer my local power company to have their own comm network in place. At least s private network has a good chance of being compliant while the phone companies aren't as much a certainty.

WW

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), December 01, 1999.

There was some old info on GWEN being used as land directional device for trains and such. Seems FY99 was supposed to see the replacement of GWEN with something called SCAMP. The problem was that only 54 stations where up but local protests about concerns to health were blocking the number needed for implementation. Also GWEN might have to stay active through 2000 if SCAMP couldn't be tested and placed into operation. Now, is SCAMP active? If not did GWEN actually get turned over to civilian use (cover story)? Why the rush to build whether DOD of civilian com's? Seems part of the durability of GWEN was that hundreds could be knocked out and not affect system operation in the event of nuclear war. Note hundreds could be knocked out, if 1997 + - there were only 54 then many hundreds would have to be installed to make the system operational.

Thanks for the info wildweasel.

-- squid (Itsdark@down.here), December 01, 1999.

Silent runnin' you are describing a NEXTEL tower/grid system.

Night train

-- Jes a communicaten' footballer (nighttr@in.lane), December 01, 1999.

This Nextel tower system would make some sense. Part of the problem with towers is they are an eyesore and concern about effects (ie microwave exposure). What better place to put them with the High Voltage Power lines which are an eyesore and has concerns about electro magnetic exposure. The power company linesman aren't as namby pamby about having their systems exposed to zoomies.

I still would like any info on SCAMP system that was supposed to have replaced GWEN. GWEN, GWEN we hardly knew ya.

-- squid (Itsdark@down.here), December 02, 1999.

Whatever these things are, they are sprouting up like tall weeds.

Several in mid-construction.

Another thing we thought was woo woo and turns out to be real :-(

Went up I-5 today and saw at least 18 within a 10-mile stretch. We also checked out the area the Squirrel Hunter mentioned before on another thread -- and yes, there are 2 close together there. At each major intersection of off/on ramps, there were 2, one on each side of the freeway.

Very tall metal towering post, has long climbing rods portruding all the way up the entire length, whole thing surrounded by tall fences topped by barbed wire. On top is a triangular frame shape that "circles" the post, built horizontally around the post. SOME HAVE A TRIANGULAR WALKING PLATFORM and some do not. The triangular platform has a hand-rail-like system around it, one high and one low, and fastened to the double handrail are verticle reflector-like or antennae-like apparatuses.

Not all had the walking grid platforms. We saw a few different versions. It was odd that these towers were located in places that could provide a good visual account of all that was going on in the intersections, on both sides of the freeway. If someone were going to build lookout towers to maintain civilian and traffic activities along the main transportation arteries, imitating the look of communication towers or altering them -- this is a thought that could not be ruled out.

Some of these might be decoy posts. They are being built very quickly.

At one location there was a little store nearby. We asked the cashier what the tower was and he said "Air Touch Cellular" tower. But then he said "But I don't really think so." [ we weren't wearing our tinfoil hats! ] He said his cell phone still has lousy reception there.

Some of the fenced-in towers have had landscaping put around them.
We noticed quite a few variations in the towers and the conglomeration of stuff they have on top. Some have large red lights in the middle; some none; some small lights. There is a huge variation in the way the tops are "dressed."

This is all beyond our field of any knowledge / experience whatsoever, but we wanted to post that we have seen many of these new towers.

We took 16 pictures, not a digital camera. 35mm. If any lurkers / posters in Oregon / Washington have the necessary equipment to scan a photo in and post it to this thread, please eMail us.

We took a new roll out with us so have a few more shots to take, will probably bring it in to be developed next weekend.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 04, 1999.